Why Wisdom is More Important than Scientific Knowledge

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

because if scientific knowledge is used unwisely, in time it is just the same as not having had the knowledge at all.

[Dan Rowden]

How did you find that link?

[ChochemV2]

because if scientific knowledge is used unwisely, in time it is just the same as not having had the knowledge at all.

You're just setting up a circular argument where each side tries to claim that the pure form of either side is more important because the impure form of either can, and frequently is, corrupted.

Science creates weapons and philosophy justifies their use.

It may be a perversion of science which is justified by a misuse of philosophical thought, however, it's still quite applicable.

If used correctly scientific knowledge and wisdom are both beneficial to society, however, both can be misused to amazingly destructive degrees.

[Tomas]

because if scientific knowledge is used unwisely, in time it is just the same as not having had the knowledge at all.

Here is an article from lewrockwell.com, attention to the final paragraph.


What I Saw in the Imperial City

Anthony Mazzone visits Babylon on the Potomac
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/mazzone1.html


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[Elizabeth Isabelle]

How did you find that link?

Strange question, strange answer.

When I signed up with the new internet service, I went from cable to FiOS, and they had a discount package that included internet, telephone, and television for like $20/mo more than what I was paying for internet and telephone. Since I got Ryonen (my new puppy), I have become less jumpy, so I'm sure I'm ready for roommates now. I figured roommates would expect television, so I went ahead with the package deal. On the news they mentioned about an American from Georgia that got married in another country and found out that he had XDRTB - and he and his wife broke a bunch of restrictions to smuggle himself back into the country for treatment, consequentially exposing passengers on an airliner to this deadly disease. I turned in my respiratory license this biennium because I decided I'm not going back into the hospitals, so I was a bit out of the respiratory loop - the last I'd heard of was MDRTB (which was created by abuse of antibiotics), so I googled XDRTB.

[Jamesh]

Science creates weapons and philosophy justifies their use.

No. Anti-philosophy, namely emotions, justifies their use.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

If used correctly scientific knowledge and wisdom are both beneficial to society, however, both can be misused to amazingly destructive degrees.

I do not see the difference between what this statement points to and what my statement pointed to - which you called a circular argument.

[Tomas]

-Dan The Man-

How did you find that link?

-Thin Lizzy-
Strange question, strange answer.

When I signed up with the new internet service, I went from cable to FiOS, and they had a discount package that included internet, telephone, and television for like $20/mo more than what I was paying for internet and telephone.


-tomas-
Only in America!!



-Thin Lizzy-
Since I got Ryonen (my new puppy),



-tomas-
The mutt will be hyper (trust me) because you are the jumpy type. Trim the vocal cords (a good vet will do it right) cuz if you live in the city, the noise (barking at 3AM) and the dog-doo, pee (will reek them out) if you feed him/her Gravy Train.


-Thin Lizzy
I have become less jumpy,



-tomas-
Told ya so!



-Thin Lizzy-
so I'm sure I'm ready for roommates now.


-tomas-
Oh great, will the human roommates have their collection of animals too?



-Thin Lizzy-
I figured roommates would expect television, so I went ahead with the package deal.


-tomas-
What with all the barking dogs, caterwauling cats, mynah birds... better have a TV with Animal Planet so all the Noah's Ark animals have something to watch.



-Thin Lizzy-
On the news they mentioned about an American from Georgia that got married in another country and found out that he had XDRTB - and he and his wife broke a bunch of restrictions to smuggle himself back into the country for treatment, consequentially exposing passengers on an airliner to this deadly disease.



-tomas-
Should all your roommates and their pets not fit into your cozy lifestyle, send them all to Jupiter Island, Florida with the dude and his deadly disease..



-Thin Lizzy-
I turned in my respiratory license this biennium because I decided I'm not going back into the hospitals,



-tomas-
Hmmm, I feel the sniffles coming on, myself...



-Thin Lizzy-
so I was a bit out of the respiratory loop - the last I'd heard of was MDRTB (which was created by abuse of antibiotics), so I googled XDRTB.[/quote]



-tomas-
No need to worry, Elizabeth (thin lizzy)... you can always have your internet, cable, phone services transferred to the local dog pound. You will enjoy the animal tranks (PCP) the vet will shoot into you, much better than Ritalin, the local pushers tell me :-)




Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971


*edited by Tomas on May 31, 2007


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[ChochemV2]

No. Anti-philosophy, namely emotions, justifies their use.

This is what I'm talking about. You're too emotionally attached to this ideal of philosophy that you glazed over my point completely.

It is neither scientific nor philosophic to destroy the planet with atom bombs, deadly viruses or anything else. It requires a perversion of science which misapplies something turning it into a weapon and someone with an perverted ideal, which was thought up by a philosopher, to justify killing someone with it.

Scientific knowledge and wisdom are equally important because one shows us truths about the universe around us and the other truths about ourselves.

[ChochemV2]

I do not see the difference between what this statement points to and what my statement pointed to - which you called a circular argument.

You put one on a pedestal above the other, I pointed out that they are equally dangerous. Unless I'm mistaken you were saying scientific knowledge, when used incorrectly, has a tendency to destroy all knowledge so a great advancement could end up meaning nothing since it leads to our destruction. The inference there is that wisdom would still mean something in the long run or that it cannot be misapplied so it's inherently better scientific knowledge.

As much as people kill each other with weapons we are quite good at killing each other over ideals.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Tomas, you make me smile.
Mutt? Well, could be - but the vet assistant identified her as a Belgian Malinois which is a very intelligent breed. I'd never heard of a Belgian Malinois before, but I wanted an intelligent dog, so I went to the shelter looking for a shepherd mix. She was the ugliest shepherd mix they had left that had not already been put on hold. I signed up to meet with her, and taught her to fetch in 3 tries. I recognized she was smart, and that's all that mattered, so I got her. And smart she it - she actually figured out how to slip a choke collar. I had her on a leash, so I saw her do it. She got her paw under it, stomped down, pulled her head back, and she was loose. That's impressive. We worked it out where she agrees to keep a regular collar on, most of the time. She was taking her sweet time eliminating in the back yard, and I had to go too, so I tied her out. After I was done, I heard an odd noise at the front door. It was her. She'd never been in the front door before - only the garage and the back door (where I'd tied her out). I wouldn't have heard her at the back door, as she was behind the screened room, which was outside the Florida room, which is separated from the rest of the house with another set of sliding glass doors. I have no idea how she figured out the best place to scratch to come in. She only barks at strange people or coming into the house (like the ISP/TV/phone installer and the air conditioning servicemen), or large objects that she did not see me move (it was rather amusing how much trouble the yard waste can was in for being in her back yard...).

As much as people kill each other with weapons we are quite good at killing each other over ideals.

That does not sound like wisdom to me. If you really think about it, it is impossible to use wisdom unwisely (it would then cease to be wisdom). Ideals are not wisdom. Look at these two statements again.

If used correctly scientific knowledge and wisdom are both beneficial to society, however, both can be misused to amazingly destructive degrees.

because if scientific knowledge is used unwisely, in time it is just the same as not having had the knowledge at all.

If wisdom is used unwisely, it ceases to be wisdom at all.

[ChochemV2]

That does not sound like wisdom to me. If you really think about it, it is impossible to use wisdom unwisely (it would then cease to be wisdom). Ideals are not wisdom. Look at these two statements again.

It's a product of wisdom. Just because a thought ceases being "wise" doesn't mean it's completely separated from it's intellectual roots.

[ExpectantlyIronic]

No. Anti-philosophy, namely emotions, justifies their use.

Oddly enough, emotions also justify not using them. Or, at least, make up a good chunk of the justification. I've never been able to quite figure out what wisdom is supposed to be, but I suspect, from the context it tends to be used in, that it has something to do with saying catchy quotable phrases. That is quite useful and all, but it doesn't do much in the way of solving problems. We could ask if intelligence or knowledge is more important, but one is rather useless without the other.

[ChochemV2]

Oddly enough, emotions also justify not using them. Or, at least, make up a good chunk of the justification. I've never been able to quite figure out what wisdom is supposed to be, but I suspect, from the context it tends to be used in, that it has something to do with saying catchy quotable phrases. That is quite useful and all, but it doesn't do much in the way of solving problems. We could ask if intelligence or knowledge is more important, but one is rather useless without the other.

Well, it really isn't a fair comparison to begin with. A more apt comparison would be scientific knowledge and philosophic knowledge or something like that. Though I still think my replies are fairly accurate because a product of science can be abused with terrible results and a product of wisdom can also be abused in the same way.

The real question isn't whether the products of scientific knowledge are worse than wisdom itself but a.) whether the products of each are worse than each other or b.) whether wisdom is better than scientific understanding for a single person who doesn't abuse them.

[Pye]

Expectantly Ironic writes:

I've never been able to quite figure out what wisdom is supposed to be, but I suspect, from the context it tends to be used in, that it has something to do with saying catchy quotable phrases. That is quite useful and all, but it doesn't do much in the way of solving problems.

Sounds like someone is fussy and needs a nap ;)

After all, knowledge is pretty much a lot of catchy quotable phrases, too.

My definition of wisdom is solving problems. Even and especially if it is to point out something non-solvable; deliver the 'bad' news. Knowledge is what we put together to get wisdom; and intelligence is the degree with which any of this is done.

And reason is the process that we use.

I hope, EI, that at some point in your life, you have practiced building a sandcastle or two, in addition to the fun of tearing them down.

[DHodges]

I see there being a kind of heirarchy. You start with data, from which you extract information, from which you may gain knowledge, and in the end extract general principles (wisdom).

Wisom has a lot to do with making judgements; deciding what is the right (or best) thing to do in a situation. Wisdom is extracted, one way or another, from a body of experience in similar situations - real or imagined; your own or someone else's. So one thing I personally value is having a wide variety of experiences.

Since people have different values, even if they agree on the facts, they will sometimes disagree on what the wise thing to do is - wisdom has some end in mind. But generally the wise man decides where he is going first, before rushing off.

[Pye]

DHodges writes:

Wis[d]om has a lot to do with making judgements; deciding what is the right (or best) thing to do in a situation.

That's right. It has always meant the best possible; the highest coalescence of what the human knows - even thinks one knows, for here, what is the difference? Wisdom has always been the word applied by humans to its highest thinking; it reserves this word for that, regardless of what shall be said to occupy that space.

And "in a situation" is right, too, in that, fluidity is a necessary component to wisdom when judging a world that is in similar motion. This is what I like above all else about the Tao . . . . that it pays attention - or asks us to - the most profound and basic physics of natural movement (in humans and in nature). Only in moving with something (for the world is already in motion), can we see how it goes, and only when we see how it goes can we know how to go with, or patiently, against it - if we happen to be seeking some slowly carved, permanent change.

Of course, in some instances, effective change can be brought about by dynamite, too. It's all in knowing when.

[ChochemV2]

The above replies have really helped me re-think my original posts. I think, after reading them, that my original problem was that I don't see scientific knowledge and wisdom as two separate things. If someone is wise they would take into account scientific knowledge which is why I don't believe the two are compatible. The problem is, to find something which I feel is compatible, you have to take another flavor of knowledge such as philosophic knowledge.