men and men

keenobserver · Post by **keenobserver** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:08 pm

Let me come to the point.
Men treat men like shit in this country!
I'm speaking of men who are strangers to each other, men you may deal with if you dont hold a 9 to 5 job as you go about your day buying things or parking your car or seeking a room or whatever.
With suspicion, often without initial respect and kindness.
Not always, of course, some are well trained and some are good actors while a few are no doubt sincere, but much too often I find American men to be, without invitation or permission, at best competitive and at worst inhospitable.

I did not understand it at first, but after some thought, yes, it occured to me that indeed there's this prevalant competitive thing that American men engage with strangers, one component of the whole problem with interaction. There are others. Jealousy is another. Resentment, especially if they hate their jobs.
To provide an example, anyone with a television, turn to the food channel when that dude, Tyler I think is his name, you know the good looking hetro cook, if he's still on the air.
Watch how he treats the women he cooks with, and then watch how he treats the men (if not very old or lame).
The men never get the respect he reserves for the women.
I have several stories of my own, but instead lets wait until the next time I am challenged or disregarded or worse even, reporting while fresh in my mind.
Personally, I find it very disheartening, frustrating, wasteful, insulting and offensive. But its the way American men have been formed, to benefit womenkind mostly.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:16 am

This is a very narrow view. Some guys are dicks, some aren't. If you actually go out and meet people in a wide variety of situations, instead of sitting alone and "thinking", you'll see that this is the case.

Unidian · Post by **Unidian** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:18 am

Capitalism is about competition. It's Darwin's favorite economic system, where "every man for himself" is the motto. I don't think we can expect anything other than a deeply competitive culture in a capitalist society. Having a compassionate, spiritual culture in a capitalist society would be like planting weeds and having roses come up instead. Doesn't happen.

Warp · Post by **Warp** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:18 am

It is rather short-sighted to be singling out American men, I assume your orginally from outside the USA. From my observation, it's probably wiser to keep rants in another forum.

ExpectantlyIronic · Post by **ExpectantlyIronic** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:16 pm

In American culture, women are generally treated as being more emotionally and physically delicate then men. Many in my culture would consider it a sign of disrespect to be treated like a women. I imagine you've heard the idiom "grow a pair"? Not that I'm directing such a sentiment towards you, but rather I'm providing it as a demonstration of how many within this culture think.

Edit: I'd also like to note that such gender stereotypes are not exclusive to capitalist societies. It would then seem, ipso facto, that such a phenomena isn't sufficiently explained by America's economic system.

ChochemV2 · Post by **ChochemV2** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:36 am

I think to an extent it's true that men can treat other men like crap but to a larger degree than anywhere else? I just don't see it.

I've never had a problem striking up a civil conversation with random people at parties, work, class, or even public places like Borders or Kinko's. Over-competitive men cocky asshats certainly exist but in entertainment they are a non-representative majority because people in entertainment have a bloated belief in their own importance.

Gretchen · Post by **Gretchen** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:04 pm

KO:

Men treat men like shit in this country!

There are two types of men: a woman's man and a man's man...clearly you have singled out the woman's man who relates better with women than men. There also exists a man's man who relates better with men and treats women like s**t.

Men can be competitive and/or jerks with men and/or women unless it benefits them not to be. They are not formed to benefit women but to derive benefit from women. If they allow themselves the short-term detriment of benefitting a man or woman it is only for the long-term benefit they receive.

The same is true for women (IOW, replace man with woman). As my mother says: You do what you want to do.

Only selfless individuals are exempt from this madness.

ChochemV2 · Post by **ChochemV2** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:03 pm

There are two types of men: a woman's man and a man's man...clearly you have singled out the woman's man who relates better with women than men. There also exists a man's man who relates better with men and treats women like s**t.

I don't think that's quite true...I think, as with everyone, there is the "asshole" type and the "nice" type.

The "Jerk Man" doesn't get long with women but also doesn't get along with any man except other jerks.

The nice dude is fine around women and would be fine around men except the jackass doesn't get along with him.

HUNTEDvsINVIS · Post by **HUNTEDvsINVIS** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:36 pm

Just probing...

You know what? A lot of men always say that they do not understand women and imply that women are irrational. But who are the ones who can only think about sex the whole time? Take Esoterix for example. A lot of men tend to behave like puppies. It is a strange thing to watch. What makes them able to say women are the ones who are not level-headed? How much do men think about sex anyway? It seems like it could interfere with their capabilities to be rational. And I have seen proof. I am not trying to be mean, or to stereotype, I suspect the men here are probably the a-class ones ( with a few exceptions ), who can control themselves. I know once this guy tried to rape me and everyone,including of course my psycho family, turned on me and told me it was my fault because I let the guy into my room. Come on? Can a girl and a guy not be alone in the same room? I was wearing a polar neck jersey and jeans!! I told him we could only be friends!! I think the species will advance a lot more if men can learn to control the urges and have less kids and think more. Don't think I hate men, but I think they should stop this stereotyping of women then we can stop ours.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:05 am

You know what? A lot of men always say that they do not understand women and imply that women are irrational. But who are the ones who can only think about sex the whole time?

In my experience, both genders think of sex as much as eachother. But as for acting out on it, individuals differ within the genders.

What makes them able to say women are the ones who are not level-headed?

I guess you have to see yourself from an outside point of view to truly understand yourself.

How much do men think about sex anyway?

Not as much as is typically thought. I heard something when I was young, that like every 4 seconds sex is on a guy's mind. It's definitely not that way for me. If females aren't around, and if I'm busy, I have absolutely no sexual thought at all.

When I see the opposite sex, though, I'm attracted. It's just a natural feeling. I see what I like. But even then, I don't think about sex every 4 seconds. It's more like every 5.

It seems like it could interfere with their capabilities to be rational.

Being rational is not something a person does, necessarily. It's something a person is when they don't harbor irrationalities. Being sexually attracted to the opposite gender isn't an irrationality...it's just a physical phenomenon. It doesn't have anything to do with thinking.

Because of this, a man can choose to focus on his attraction or not. The more he places his focus somewhere else, the less the attraction will have an effect on his mind.

And I have seen proof. I am not trying to be mean, or to stereotype, I suspect the men here are probably the a-class ones ( with a few exceptions ), who can control themselves. I know once this guy tried to rape me and everyone,including of course my psycho family, turned on me and told me it was my fault because I let the guy into my room. Come on? Can a girl and a guy not be alone in the same room? I was wearing a polar neck jersey and jeans!! I told him we could only be friends!!

It's a shame that this happens. That fuck destroyed everything good by making the choice to turn his attraction into an addiction and then act out violently to get his fill.

A girl and a guy should be allowed to be alone in the same room without any problems.

I think the species will advance a lot more if men can learn to control the urges and have less kids and think more. Don't think I hate men, but I think they should stop this stereotyping of women then we can stop ours.

Yes, society would be more advanced if men would make the choice to control themselves.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:34 am

sschaula wrote:
And I have seen proof. I am not trying to be mean, or to stereotype, I suspect the men here are probably the a-class ones ( with a few exceptions ), who can control themselves. I know once this guy tried to rape me and everyone,including of course my psycho family, turned on me and told me it was my fault because I let the guy into my room. Come on? Can a girl and a guy not be alone in the same room? I was wearing a polar neck jersey and jeans!! I told him we could only be friends!!
It's a shame that this happens. That fuck destroyed everything good by making the choice to turn his attraction into an addiction and then act out violently to get his fill.

A girl and a guy should be allowed to be alone in the same room without any problems.

It's more than him that did something really wrong, it's everyone who blamed Hunted for this by allowing the two of them to be in a room together. Something similar enough happened to me, although all the guy did was take off his clothes and keep taking them off after he agreed to keep the rest of his clothes on, but then I lost my job for reporting him. Because I had accepted his offer to drive both of us to a work-related inservice due to the bad parking where it was being held, my own psychiatrist told me "everybody knows that when a woman gets into a man's car, that means she wants to have sex with him." To me, I thought if anyone got into any car, that meant they wanted transportation. What these guys did was bad enough, but recoverable with the understanding that there are some major assholes out there - what cuts deeply is that the world will stand up for the assholes, and blame the females.
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sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:05 am

That's ridiculous how you'd get fired for that. Sounds like something you could sue for.

By the way, PM me back.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:37 am

sschaula wrote:Sounds like something you could sue for.

I tried - short story is that there were enough legal loopholes. I'll pm the rest, as the board has already heard this a few times.
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Gretchen · Post by **Gretchen** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:55 am

EI:

my own psychiatrist told me "everybody knows that when a woman gets into a man's car, that means she wants to have sex with him."

I hope you have a new psychiatrist! I don't get into anybody's car thinking that, including my husband's! What a totally ridiculous thing to say...was he/she trying to get you to respond by saying something bizarre and over the top?

SS:

But even then, I don't think about sex every 4 seconds. It's more like every 5.

(laughing) At least you are honest.

CCV2:

I don't think that's quite true...I think, as with everyone, there is the "asshole" type and the "nice" type.

Unless the "nice" guy is selfless, he is attempting benefit in some manner or fashion. I know guys who are really close to being a true "nice" guy, but competition or being a jerk in one aspect or situation type always holds them back. Perfection may just be an ideal.

Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:36 am

Pass,

She just had a different perspective on what social rules are. Psychiatrists don't have to take any specific training for mental health other than the same psyc rotation that a GP takes. All they have to know is meds, and anything they learn beyond that is their personal choice. Yes, I do have a new one.
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