Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

movingalways wrote: One can be in the world and use reasoning (the way of "making" order of the appearance of concepts) but not be of the world of reasoning (belief its interpretation of concepts represents the absolute of the order of things). Nihilists who reject the making of order in the sentient world are unconscious of the terms of their own philosophy as they must apply their own reasoning (ordering) to their rejection of making order.
I believe in a mix of order and chaos for any good music, though I really struggle to have any sort of musical taste at all. Can't tell the crap from the gold, and the gold from the crap, the pain from the pleasure, pleasure from the pain. I guess the only way to put it is good music is something you find yourself returning to every now and then.

Truth of the matter is, music is human centric, what sounds good to a human won't sound good to a dog or alien neccessarily, the color and timbre will appear different, however the position of objects are more or less the same for every lifeform, except for the FOV makes it seem more stretchy and vary perceived acceleration. Rate of time may differ (tempo is based on running speed) but I dont know any lifeform where passage of time is random, except drug users.
My Documentary: mymovie2 wmv
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Cahoot
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by Cahoot »

GWT wrote: It (modern religion) makes "sense" as in perceptional sense, not as logical sense. It makes "logical sense" why the masses choose to endorse it, because it makes them feel good. It has as much meaning as a bottle of ketchup, de-activating the cloaking device will allow you to perceive the true essence of ketchup in all of it's red glory.
Based on the premise that life is the measure of all things, then life is the measure of logic, and the measure of logic is not in determining what should not be, that is.

Spock’s strategy to maintain undistracted attention upon being, while simultaneously maintaining an unattached minimal attention upon observing an unreal phenomenal world, was instrumental in fulfilling the crew’s intent to escape the mental control of the Malcotons.

In the world where science fiction exists, a human’s strategy to maintain undistracted attention upon being, while simultaneously maintaining an unattached minimal attention upon observing phenomena, is instrumental in fulfilling the intent to be free of conditioning.

The intent to take up a modern religion is where the sense of a modern religion is to be found, whichever way it is one defines modern religion.
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ardy
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by ardy »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:Prologue: I thought of this when I was six years old.
You mean a few years back? Haha.

Obviously the Christian story is not meant to rationally dissect or apply your own moral sense to it. That would be like playing god or Lucifer! But all myths could be said to suffer from this. It's worrying how many believers tend to take parts or even whole of the story so literally. They do that by preferring not to think of the consequences of a literalized faith.

How about the following thought? Humans are more or less symbolic creatures, functioning through a set of symbols and words, even deep down. We're not blood and guts. Blood and guts will never "make sense" to any of us. A meaningless, material reality will never function without the power of symbols. When seen this way, you will understand the function of religion, ideology and even media, commercials and Youtube even. Does it have to make sense to you? No. Will you keep participating in your own little drama and dramatized media? Yes. It keeps you going and at some level it's even defining who you think you are. Without the symbols and the stories, not much else is left but getting lost in senseless sensing.

If you want to have another take on the religious stories, see them as "white smoke", an after effect of something burning, out of your sight. Do not try to analyze smoke! Instead wonder what it is that's being heated. In other words, do not keep focusing on exteriors: wonder about interior design.
Great post DVR. I have always said that religion is the smoke that is left after the spark of a great man has died. Religions were built by lesser men and therefore they soon fall into the normal human way of thinking. Thus intolerance, greed, avarice and politics takes over from the simple truth handed down by the original profit. You only have to look at Christianity and Islam to see the effects!

Unfortunately the Western world is suffering from the protracted death of Christianity and the void left behind it of self interest, and lack of concern for others.
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Cahoot
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by Cahoot »

ardy wrote:
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:Prologue: I thought of this when I was six years old.
You mean a few years back? Haha.

Obviously the Christian story is not meant to rationally dissect or apply your own moral sense to it. That would be like playing god or Lucifer! But all myths could be said to suffer from this. It's worrying how many believers tend to take parts or even whole of the story so literally. They do that by preferring not to think of the consequences of a literalized faith.

How about the following thought? Humans are more or less symbolic creatures, functioning through a set of symbols and words, even deep down. We're not blood and guts. Blood and guts will never "make sense" to any of us. A meaningless, material reality will never function without the power of symbols. When seen this way, you will understand the function of religion, ideology and even media, commercials and Youtube even. Does it have to make sense to you? No. Will you keep participating in your own little drama and dramatized media? Yes. It keeps you going and at some level it's even defining who you think you are. Without the symbols and the stories, not much else is left but getting lost in senseless sensing.

If you want to have another take on the religious stories, see them as "white smoke", an after effect of something burning, out of your sight. Do not try to analyze smoke! Instead wonder what it is that's being heated. In other words, do not keep focusing on exteriors: wonder about interior design.
Great post DVR. I have always said that religion is the smoke that is left after the spark of a great man has died. Religions were built by lesser men and therefore they soon fall into the normal human way of thinking. Thus intolerance, greed, avarice and politics takes over from the simple truth handed down by the original profit. You only have to look at Christianity and Islam to see the effects!

Unfortunately the Western world is suffering from the protracted death of Christianity and the void left behind it of self interest, and lack of concern for others.
As this insight succinctly states, the effects of Christianity and the effects of Islam apparently have different causes.

… the wide gulf between violence and hate “justified in the name of Christ” and violence and hate “justified in the name of Muhammad” is that Christ never justified it, while Muhammad continuously did.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

By replacing thought with a reference to David Horowitz's Frontpage rag, Cahoot turned this into a charged political quoting contest and I've placed it into the Helpdesk section. All I can do is advising broader study of multiple sources before embracing such opinions as ones own. Some knowledge of the world and what its billion Muslim citizens are doing will also go a long way. But also consider the tens of thousands of armed Christian extremist militiamen who are only not acting out (not counting African continent) because of a mixture of A. their powerful government would wipe them out in hours, B. economical distraction, C. still having some representation in government and D. not having their country (or allied Christian nations) being forcefully reformed or their dictator being supported by some powerful foreign military power with a different religion than yours. It appears to me that it's more these circumstances than "inherent" qualities.

Just to bring back some philosophy: the origin and start of all violence is the murder of truth and in that sense all modern religions are still steeped in violence and yet sincerely trying to resurrect the very corpse they worship. Of course, everyone is religious if not a philosopher: you kill truth or you love it. Actually, loving it just means not harming it.
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Cahoot
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by Cahoot »

The quote simply rationally addresses the “great man” origins of the two religions that ardy mentions, and the misguidedness of violence and hate in the name of Christianity.

As a reasonable man, consider that certainly the followers’ misguided twisting of a great man’s meaning is a topic worthy of philosophical consideration, even in a thread with a title as charged as … the f**king nonsense of modern religion!, and as such, after being generously reconsidered, is worthy of returning to the thread’s birthplace.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Perhaps.

My own view is that the differences between Muhammad and Jesus (which does not equal "Quoran" and "Bible" at all) might be better explained by context. The sayings and doings of Muhammad were recorded during a struggle against powerful opponents and suppression, as a reaction to that. While the Gospels were clearly formed, edited or compiled in the times it mostly represented a ruling empire with a pope at its very wheel. Understanding the power of formation might explain the lack of more military dimensions. There are enough scholars who are puzzled why the Gospels do not address the actual armed struggle against Roman occupation while theological there were many links between Jesus and this armed resistance. Even some of his disciples were named to be connected to the resistance. And yet no beep, no agreement nor disagreement! This probably has not a spiritual cause but a political cause if one takes into account the time it was written and decided what to include.

Just consider the context: Jesus lived during occupation of the Roman empire and the New Testament formed during the rise of Christianity as the new State Religion while the Islam formed against suppression by powerful merchant tribes and some conflicts with the Eastern Roman Empire. Compare this also with bible books like 1 and 2 Maccabees, still part of the Catholic bible, which are based on war history and a violent armed struggle occurring one century before the supposed life of Christ.

Another possible dimension might be that Christianity is fundamentally a force stemming from ruling empires while the Islam born from the armed struggle against more powerful elements or perceived oppression. Both using the same Abrahamic base, various wisdom teachings and common eschatology. However this is also too simplistic but it does seem that Islam does not function very well within empires; it was rather short-lived in that form in any case.
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Cahoot
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by Cahoot »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Perhaps.

My own view is that the differences between Muhammad and Jesus (which does not equal "Quoran" and "Bible" at all) might be better explained by context. The sayings and doings of Muhammad were recorded during a struggle against powerful opponents and suppression, as a reaction to that. While the Gospels were clearly formed, edited or compiled in the times it mostly represented a ruling empire with a pope at its very wheel. Understanding the power of formation might explain the lack of more military dimensions. There are enough scholars who are puzzled why the Gospels do not address the actual armed struggle against Roman occupation while theological there were many links between Jesus and this armed resistance. Even some of his disciples were named to be connected to the resistance. And yet no beep, no agreement nor disagreement! This probably has not a spiritual cause but a political cause if one takes into account the time it was written and decided what to include.

Just consider the context: Jesus lived during occupation of the Roman empire and the New Testament formed during the rise of Christianity as the new State Religion while the Islam formed against suppression by powerful merchant tribes and some conflicts with the Eastern Roman Empire. Compare this also with bible books like 1 and 2 Maccabees, still part of the Catholic bible, which are based on war history and a violent armed struggle occurring one century before the supposed life of Christ.

Another possible dimension might be that Christianity is fundamentally a force stemming from ruling empires while the Islam born from the armed struggle against more powerful elements or perceived oppression. Both using the same Abrahamic base, various wisdom teachings and common eschatology. However this is also too simplistic but it does seem that Islam does not function very well within empires; it was rather short-lived in that form in any case.
Based on this information:

Aggressive empire expansion as a defensive tactic to protect against “the suppression of powerful merchant tribes” includes ideological indoctrination as well as geopolitical conquering.

Modern day practices of empire expansion through medieval tactics stem from a philosophy of simply eliminating dissenting views. Technology aids in ideological indoctrination by disseminating the message to many people like never before, and the focused intent of conquering initiates the violence of war.

Non-violent Christian expansionism accounts for Christianity’s capacity to co-exist, as long as there are some Christians left to co-exist where there were once many, within the empire with other religions that have un-neighborly notions of what to do with the responsibility of being the "one true religion," as most all claim to be.
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Cahoot
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Re: Why modern religion makes no f**king sense!

Post by Cahoot »

Prehistoric man probably had weather gods.

Outgoing UN IPCC Chief reveals global warming ‘is my religion and my dharma’

http://www.climatedepot.com/2015/02/24/ ... my-dharma/
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