Two sides of the same coin

Some partial backups of posts from the past (Feb, 2004)
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N0X23
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Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:21 pm

Two sides of the same coin

Post by N0X23 »

Quote:Quote:<hr>Anguttara Nikaya VII.48
Saññoga Sutta
Bondage


"I will teach you a Dhamma discourse on bondage & lack of bondage. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."
"Yes, lord," the monks responded.
The Blessed One said: "A woman attends inwardly to her feminine faculties, her feminine gestures, her feminine manners, feminine poise, feminine desires, feminine voice, feminine charms. She is excited by that, delighted by that.
Being excited & delighted by that, she attends outwardly to masculine faculties, masculine gestures, masculine manners, masculine poise, masculine desires, masculine voices, masculine charms.
She is excited by that, delighted by that. Being excited & delighted by that, she wants to be bonded to what is outside her, wants whatever pleasure & happiness that arise based on that bond. Delighting, caught up in her femininity, a woman goes into bondage with reference to men.


This is how a woman does not transcend her femininity.



"A man attends inwardly to his masculine faculties, masculine gestures, masculine manners, masculine poise, masculine desires, masculine voice, masculine charms. He is excited by that, delighted by that.
Being excited & delighted by that, he attends outwardly to feminine faculties, feminine gestures, feminine manners, feminine poise, feminine desires, feminine voices, feminine charms. He is excited by that, delighted by that.
Being excited & delighted by that, he wants to be bonded to what is outside him, wants whatever pleasure & happiness that arise based on that bond. Delighting, caught up in his masculinity, a man goes into bondage with reference to women.


This is how a man does not transcend his masculinity.


"And how is there lack of bondage? A woman does not attend inwardly to her feminine faculties... feminine charms. She is not excited by that, not delighted by that... does not attend outwardly to masculine faculties... masculine charms. She is not excited by that, not delighted by that... does not want to be bonded to what is outside her, does not want whatever pleasure & happiness that arise based on that bond.
Not delighting, not caught up in her femininity, a woman does not go into bondage with reference to men.


This is how a woman transcends her femininity.



"A man does not attend inwardly to his masculine faculties... masculine charms. He is not excited by that, not delighted by that... does not attend outwardly to feminine faculties... feminine charms. He is not excited by that, not delighted by that... does not want to be bonded to what is outside him, does not want whatever pleasure & happiness that arise based on that bond. Not delighting, not caught up in his masculinity, a man does not go into bondage with reference to women.


This is how a man transcends his masculinity.


"This is how there is lack of bondage. And this is the Dhamma discourse on bondage & lack of bondage."<hr>









Quote:Quote:<hr>1. 2. Soma
Setting at Savatthi. Then, in the morning, the bhikkhuni Soma dressed and, taking bowl and robe, entered Savatthi for alms.[5] When she had walked for alms in Savatthi and had returned from her alms round, after her meal she went to the Blind Men's Grove for the day's abiding. Having plunged into the Blind Men's Grove, she sat down at the foot of a tree for the day's abiding.

Then Mara the Evil One, desiring to arouse fear, trepidation, and terror in the bhikkhuni Soma, desiring to make her fall away from concentration, approached her and addressed her in verse:

4. "That state so hard to achieve

Which is to be attained by the seers,

Can't be attained by a woman

With her two-fingered wisdom." 6*

Then it occurred to the bhikkhuni Soma: "Now who is this that recited the verse -- a human being or a non-human being?"

Then it occurred to her: "This is Mara the Evil One, who has recited the verse desiring to arouse fear, trepidation, and terror in me, desiring to make me fall away from concentration."

Then the bhikkhuni Soma, having understood, "This is Mara the Evil One," replied to him in verses:

5. "What does womanhood matter at all

When the mind is concentrated well,

When knowledge flows on steadily

As one sees correctly into Dhamma.

6. One to whom it might occur,

'I'm a woman' or 'I'm a man'

Or 'I'm anything at all' --

Is fit for Mara to address."

Then Mara the Evil One, realizing, "The bhikkhuni Soma

knows me," sad and disappointed, disappeared right there.





*Two-fingered wisdom

6. SA: That state (thana): arahantship. With her two-fingered wisdom (dvangulapaññaya): with limited wisdom (parittapaññaya); or else this is said of women because they cut the thread while holding the cotton ball between two fingers. ST and ThiA 67 offer a different explanation: "From childhood on they are always determining whether the rice is cooked by pressing the grains in the pot between two fingers. Therefore, because of the feebleness of their wisdom (acquired with two fingers), they are said to have 'two-fingered wisdom.'" It should be noted that it is Mara the Evil One who voices this ancient bias.
<hr>


Quote:Quote:<hr>It should be noted that it is Mara the Evil One who voices this ancient bias.<hr>

Duly noted.







QRS, what say you?
Kevin Solway
Posts: 2766
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:43 am
Location: Australia
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Re: Two sides of the same coin

Post by Kevin Solway »

Soon . . .
Kevin Solway
Posts: 2766
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:43 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Two sides of the same coin

Post by Kevin Solway »

Nox wrote:

Quote:Quote:<hr>".. . This is how a woman does not transcend her femininity.

. . . This is how a man does not transcend his masculinity.

. . . This is how a woman transcends her femininity.

. . . This is how a man transcends his masculinity."
<hr>

This is a reasonable teaching.


Quote:Quote:<hr>"What does womanhood matter at all
When the mind is concentrated well,
When knowledge flows on steadily
As one sees correctly into Dhamma."<hr>

This too is very reasonable. Just because a person is a "woman", doesn't mean they can't become wise.

Indeed the same can be said of anything in nature. If, whatever it is, is able to concentrate a mind upon Truth, then knowledge will flow on steadily, and, whatever it is that is doing the thinking, will see correctly into Dhamma.
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