practical philosophy

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ariehnathan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:26 pm

practical philosophy

Post by ariehnathan »

Greetings friends

As you all know there is something called philosophic counselling. I myself am a practitioner.I counsel free of charge which I think Socrates would appreciate and I teach those that wish to help others, become Philosophic Counsellors as well.

Philosophy has a great opportunity to take the baton away from psychology as the way forwars in dealing with depression etc, but little is being done.

Why is this. Not only do the sophists give philosophy a bad name but there are so many strands it seems impossible to even put forward coherent arguments half the time.

So I developed a strand of philosphy which is both practical and effective when helping others.......but which philosopher wants to help another anyway.wouldn't they rather philosophise.


But do we not have a duty like the freed prisioner in Plato's simile of the cave to tell others what we have seen.........for there are quite a few of us who have seen and we are the ones that must get involved in the task of enlightening our fellow humans.

Is it not a thankless task, witout financial reward and with the risk of causing more trouble than we solve. Is not the road to hell paved with good intentions. But so what do we not still have a duty.

The Tao reminds us of the sage that lives amongst us but yet impartial, unmoved and beyond the affairs of others and yet do we still not have this duty.

So how are you, with all your philosophical knowledge and insight going to set about this task.

Some of you won't because you do not care:some of you won't because you do not see how and some of you will go and become sophits making huge amounts of money by confusing people.

I wrote a book and put together a course designed for people that really want to help. That was my duty

What is yours?.....before we enter into a remarkably clever but ultiamtely futile debate about the definition and indeed the value of duty, may I remind you all that this duty is owed by each and every one of us that has seen the light ie that recognises regardless of religion, country, faith, colour creed etc all words of wisdom that have stood the test of time all basically contain the same message

Regards

Arieh Nathan


Dave Toast
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:22 pm

Re: practical philosophy

Post by Dave Toast »

Hello.

This all sounds very interesting.

How about some details of your findings?
birdofhermes
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:34 pm

Re: practical philosophy

Post by birdofhermes »

I think I am an amateur already, and I agree with all you say, but I sure do hope you got an editor when you wrote your book. I try to help people all the time, although Christians can be hard nuts to crack. Such a handicap.

ariehnathan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:26 pm

Re: practical philosophy

Post by ariehnathan »

Chsistianity is a handicap as are all religious labels, but jesus as Buddha as Lao-tse saw the light or a portion of it and returned to tell the others.

Philosophers that have seen this same light from a different angle also have the duty to speak of the light

this light can be called many things and can be arrived at from so many different angles......and yet it shines in every true (ie that has stood the time test)belief and philosophy.

This is what I have seen Tthere is a Benign Force for those that believe in it (See Descartes I think therefore I am) but many have other gods and by that I mean man-made obsessions

It makes no difference if we thought this benign Force therefore it existed OR it thought us. If something cannot be agreed upon it is not ready to be revealed is it?

So we believe in it because to believe in anything otherwise would lead us down a different route.

But what about the atheist you cry.there is no such thing as God etc etc. the very fact that we silly humans have tried to describe it , bottle and sell it AND FAILED shows we have missed the point. It is as a seed within you and all around you. It is not yin and it is not yang
it is the sum of the two both within and without.

If we consider this third element then step back and examine ourselves examining it we begin to understand
That is trinary Thinking.that is what I teach.

But do not suppose that I too teach a doctrine. I simply give the basic tenet and the philosophic student goes further adding his own thoughts. His/her input will change the philosophy of the Trinary Foundation .

In writing my book I also realised this that correct thinking ie logical and complete about ourselves others and the world we live in , even on the part of the atheist leads to exactly the same conclusions as some of those i mentioned earlier

With warmth

Arieh



suergaz

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Post by suergaz »

The trinary foundation?! If it really were our duty, as opposed to our love, to report what we have seen when exceeding ourselves, there would be such a clambering of ones to fulfill it we would forget ourselves permanently.
ariehnathan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:26 pm

Re: ----

Post by ariehnathan »

it is our duty exactly because it is our love.again the philosopher gets stuck on the duality

think in Trinary
1 dimensional ie duty
2 dimensional ie duty versus love
trinary picture both in balance as in yin/yang.
Both exist and the debate of love verus duty has raged for millennia.....yet there is more ie what they both create together........the Tao , deep understanding. Duty can be a form of love, love can be a form of duty. Polarity is all too common in our thinking, look beyond it look at the trinary ie duty,love the whole thing then look at yourself looking at it.

Why for example did you balance my word duty for love. Are you unable to recognise that some duty is carried out in the name of love, putting another's interests before our own for example. have you faced the batlle between these polarities in your thinking.

The Novice begins the study of trinary Thinking.

Alternately and with deepfelt humility, i am te student and you the teacher

With warmth

Arieh

repent1
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:39 pm

books and info

Post by repent1 »

I'm glad you brought this up. Philosophical counseling is still a fairly new movement, primarily driven (in the US at least) with 'business ethics' counseling, although many psychologists have similar approaches in thier practice anyway. I went to see the only APPA certified counselor in my state and he didn't have much to offer me, and we didn't really get along. Here's some info that I wrote up about philosophical counseling to explain it:

Philosophy has been used for centuries to answer questions people have about life, so there is no reason it can’t still be used today.

Philosophical counseling is based on the premise that traditional talk therapy from a licensed psychologist doesn’t always provide answers to the questions and problems a client is facing. Talk therapy is widely used today, and is often also coupled with drugs to solve a clearly diagnosed mental disorder. No doubt this is the solution for many people who have serious mental disorders and where the drugs help the brain function.

However if a person has mental challenges in their life, it doesn’t mean a daily drug regiment is always the right option. Talk therapy often only asks questions related to coming up with some form of a diagnosis, and ignores other approaches like mentoring and coaching of deeper philosophical issues. When the problem itself is philosophical in nature and no clear mental diagnosis can be met, an approach that allows the client to make decisions on their own, is much more empowering and successful. There often aren’t simple answers to problems that many people face, like the many forms of depression, stress, anxiety, fear, family, death. And while talk therapy relies on exploring the past, philosophical counseling relies on exploring the future. Applying philosophy to every day situations is what empowers people to think and find solutions to the questions they have about life.

For more info visit:

(APPA) American Philosophical Practitioners Association - <a href="http://appa.edu/">appa.edu/</a>

Read the Amazon Reviews:

Plato, Not Prozac! : Applying Eternal Wisdom to Everyday Problems
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 5213640</a>

Philosophical Counseling : Theory and Practice
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 5213640</a>

Philosophical Practice
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... =507846</a>

The plato, not prozac book is a good place to start, it has lots of good info on the differences between philosophical and traditional counseling. I'd be intersted in knowing more about your book.

peace
ariehnathan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:26 pm

practical philosophy

Post by ariehnathan »

Thank you for helping to explain.

With regard to my book, give me your e-mail and I will send it as an attachment

regards

Arieh
repent1
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2003 3:39 pm

Re: practical philosophy

Post by repent1 »

Arieh, check your ezboard inbox.

peace
suergaz

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Post by suergaz »

I've always found 'duty' to be the retreat of those who do not have a task.

Is it your duty to sufficiently explain what you call 'trinary thinking' to us Arieh? What is this recourse to a trinity if you wish to dismiss dualities in expression? What is wholly important to you, or, who is it you seek to counsel?
ariehnathan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:26 pm

Re: practical philosophy

Post by ariehnathan »

Suergaz

The process is one-dimensional thought leading to duality and polarity. The third element is the understanding of the nature of the specific duality and the ability to hold this understanding.....and then to examine oneself as the viewer of the duality. There are always three elements ie yin/yang/the Tao.........The Tao/me as the viewer/Understanding

I seek to counsel all those who do not use their thinking correctly ie those who think one-dimensionally "he is bad/she is evil..and those who think in duality ie those who see both sides but still imagine the choice is one at the expense of the other. Trinasry Thinking leads to complete understanding. It is the duty of all us to help those whose thinking is clearly incorrect. Duty is not the retreat of those who have nothing to do rather it is borne out of love for all those we share this world with, but i do not like using the word love because we tend to love our own first and to the exclusion of those that we do not know but who still have the same force within them as we have

With regard to your point about duality i do not wish to dismiss duality at all I just want to take people past that rather basic thinking stage

regards

Arieh
suergaz

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Post by suergaz »

You know for certain that it is the duty of all of us to help those whose thinking is clearly incorrect? I admire your desire, but can it be done, I mean...can it be helped?! Is it not a one-dimensioanl thought to assume that there can be such a thing as clearly incorrect thinking? There are degrees of thinking, of understanding, and it is not my duty to consciously draw what is incapable of my thought to my height.

ariehnathan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:26 pm

Re: ----

Post by ariehnathan »

You write--You know for certain that it is the duty of all of us to help those whose thinking is clearly incorrect? I admire your desire, but can it be done, I mean...can it be helped?! Is it not a one-dimensioanl thought to assume that there can be such a thing as clearly incorrect thinking? There are degrees of thinking, of understanding, and it is not my duty to consciously draw what is incapable of my thought to my height. .

yes I know that it is for certain that it is the duty of all of us that think to help the others. I also know that very few take up this duty. It is not a one dimensional thought to assume that there is incorrect thinking, it is a trinary thought, it is deep understanding of why for some this world is hell on wheels.

Why do you think you have no duty to help others. You come from the same place, you are created from the same stuff

Arieh

suergaz

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Post by suergaz »

Arieh, all I'm saying is I have no duty to help others, I am not bound to helping others, of course I will and often do, but if this was my first thought in all action I'd surely want to kill myself! Is it possible to joke this way amonsgt compassionate personages such as yourself?!
ariehnathan
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:26 pm

Re: ---

Post by ariehnathan »

Of course it is I am not a zealot....Its jut that I really do listen to my inner voice and I take care to reject the illusions of this world
suergaz

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Post by suergaz »

Of course you're no zealot, no prescriber of systems, so then hear people, your 'inner voice' does not exist for them, see to them, don't be afraid of hurting them with your love, only let them see this trinary hobby horse thing of yours if they are in the mood for riding (on the spot!)---Advice, when given with respect, is a vice! This intrusion into anothers consciousness, this rigmarole of righteous postures, it is no more than the faulty operation of an overbearing conscience! Isn't conscience a sickness? A deference to action in favour of the steadfastness of indecision? In the best of us it is, at best, a saddled supplication to ones intellect, at worst, an auditory hallucination!

Is it possible to reject an illusion? I take it by reject you mean acknowledge, since a thing, if it is illusory, is not there to be rejected! Edited by: suergaz at: 11/6/03 10:50 pm
Dave Toast
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:22 pm

Re: ---

Post by Dave Toast »

So how about those details then Arieh?

I mean with regard to

Quote:Quote:<hr>So I developed a strand of philosphy which is both practical and effective when helping others.......<hr>
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