A statement of Spinoza's...

[joel knoll]

i just finished spinoza's ethics and will have to read it again, and probably again. and then again, only this time in latin. but one of spinoza's propositions is that "all things are true when they are referred to God". obviously, the import of this statement can only be fully understood in the context of spinoza's entire system. it has really been vexing me, though. spinoza also suggests that god causes (or results in) "infinite things in infinite ways", which i think is a clue to the matter. anybody in this wierd forum know anything about spinoza or comment on the statement "all things are true when they are referred to God"?

[sevens]

i just finished spinoza's ethics and will have to read it again, and probably again. and then again, only this time in latin. but one of spinoza's propositions is that "all things are true when they are referred to God". obviously, the import of this statement can only be fully understood in the context of spinoza's entire system. it has really been vexing me, though. spinoza also suggests that god causes (or results in) "infinite things in infinite ways", which i think is a clue to the matter. anybody in this wierd forum know anything about spinoza or comment on the statement "all things are true when they are referred to God"?

It appears that Spinoza's conception of 'God' is the Law of Causality itself. When you view reality with an 'ethical eye', you begin to envelope 'God'. In everything, you see 'Infinity'. And, in everything, you trace it - back and forth, through time. The extent to which you are able to see 'God', is the extent to which you thirst and hunger for 'It'.

Since perceiving 'God', is in actuality, perceiving your own mind: The deeper you delve into your own psyche, the more you will see, until, finally - you reach a boundless universe.

[David Quinn]

My guess is that the statement, "All things are true when they are referred to God", is meant to highlight the truth that all things are direct manifestations of God (or Nature).

All things are true in the sense that they all share God's nature. Even false conclusions and beliefs share this nature - even though, from a logical point of view, their content remains false.

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[joel knoll]

the logical - as a category- does not exhaust the real, or the true, as a category? that seems problematic, but perhaps it is only problematic on its own authority?

[joel knoll]

what is meant by an "ethical eye"?

[sevens]

Logic should be used as a tool.

Not, as a philosophy.

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[ * | * ] : the mind that correctly discerns morality, in each situation.

[DHodges]

[ * | * ] : the mind that correctly discerns morality, in each situation.

The correct thing to do in a given situation - the right thing, the moral thing, the ethical thing - that's got to be a matter of opinion, not a matter of objective fact, no?

I mean, you are always operating under limited information - the outcome of your action could be bad, even if you have the best of intentions.

What's right to do is relative to the situation - and you can never know everything, never have perfect information.

Many decisions come down to choosing the lesser of two evils. Different people might come to different conclusions about which is lesser, even given the same information. Is one of them wrong, or do they just have different opinions? Different things that they value?

[sevens]

D -

Over-thinking the initial concept.

Trying to convey what occurs when you're no longer attached to your own selfish nature. When you begin to unwind, you're able to discern what is true in each situation. It is this perception that is at the heart of Enlightenment.

It is the beginning.

[DHodges]

Trying to convey what occurs when you're no longer attached to your own selfish nature. When you begin to unwind, you're able to discern what is true in each situation. It is this perception that is at the heart of Enlightenment.

It is the beginning.

I'm not getting what you are saying. What do you think the connection is between truth (knowing what is true in the situation) and morality or ethics?

If you know what is true, do you think you can make a leap from "is" to "should"?

[Matt Gregory]

Sevens is off in his own world. He's so worthless you could pile 100 dead corpses on him and you wouldn't even get a vulture to take a second look.

[sevens]

Dave,

When you see what is, wisdom is gained. When wisdom is gained, you know what effect to cause.

[sevens]

Nietzsche carried one dead man.

[Matt Gregory]

And then he stuck him down a dark hole. That was just the beginning, though. He must have done that a billion times by now.

[sevens]

You know more, than you know.

[Matt Gregory]

I know that no high-wire artist ever made it over the rope with ambiguous steps.

[sevens]

Truth through ambiguity, is a much larger truth.

As you, are Nature itself.

[DHodges]

When you see what is, wisdom is gained.

Seeing what is, is gaining knowledge, not wisdom.

[sevens]

Knowledge breeds wisdom.

[David Quinn]

Joel Knoll wrote:

DQ: My guess is that the statement, "All things are true when they are referred to God", is meant to highlight the truth that all things are direct manifestations of God (or Nature).

All things are true in the sense that they all share God's nature. Even false conclusions and beliefs share this nature - even though, from a logical point of view, their content remains false.

JK: the logical - as a category- does not exhaust the real, or the true, as a category? that seems problematic, but perhaps it is only problematic on its own authority?

It's just a case of seeing things from different perspectives. The statement, "1+1=3", is both a true manifestation of God and a logically false assertion. Its existence as a concept is perfect and true, while the content contained within the concept is incoherent and false.

It is logically the case that all things are manifestations of God (given that "God" is defined to be the totality of all there is), just as it is logically the case that some of these things can be false beliefs and conclusions.

what is meant by an "ethical eye"?

This is a particular consciousness which arises when one experiences enlightenment and comprehends Truth. One gains insight into the root causes of the world's suffering and ignorance, and one can begin to address these causes directly.

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[joel knoll]

my loudest applause, dq, for what its worth. no bullshit. splendid, splendid answer.