H20=water

[David Quinn]

Beingof1:

DQ: And doesn't the Totality's "oneness" completely negate the Christian conception of God?

B1: This is taking Christianity to its ultimate conclusion and arrives at the same place as all profound, liberating thought and experience. In fact, it is supplemental to the whole as it heals all fragmented fractures. The pieces all fall into place.

The Gnostics were probably the closest to understanding the non-duality of God. They emphasized the need to leave the scriptures/Church behind and realize God directly with your own mind. The term "gnostic" means knowledge.

Of course, the Catholic Church was horrified at such an open display of good sense and systematically destroyed every gnostic community it could find and burnt its members at the stake. So there is no surprise that most Christian thinking these days is so vague and banal.

-

[freelight]

Paul,

DQ: How do you know that the Totality is "oneness". By what means have you proven this?

P: I gather this from my sense of God being One. There is only One Spirit, substance, .....and it appears the Totality is One in essence, but includes all things. Not sure I have proved it except for accepting the concept as feasible.

If you haven't proved it, then how is it distinguishable from wishful-thinking? Are you saying that the whole of your spirituality rests on a mere wish?


I dont think I need to prove anything. (Existence is Self-evident). God, the Totality, Existence seems like a Unity, a Whole, this entirety of Existence being ONE. - just a sense. Cant the Allness that IS be recognized as One? - just a thought, an assessment - it could be wrong or imperfect...but whose to say? I wasnt sharing a wish - just a perspective. Do you have any reason to discredit this sense? Cannot the Entirety of Existence, the totality have the constitutional quality of Oneness? (God being the Only Power and Presence, the Sole Mind Being) - the idea that All is One.

DQ: And doesn't the Totality's "oneness" completely negate the Christian conception of God?

P: I dont think so, unless you are speaking of the traditional/orthodox christianity which is rooted in duality. I see the All as One - comprising The Totality. And if God is All there IS...this oneness is perpetual thru-out.

What makes you think that God can't be a duality?

I was positing/viewing God in His essential nature and allness as One - the Absolute existing as a non-dual Reality, undivided, Whole. Dualities/multiplicities surely exists in the finite, phenomenal world(the Relative) - I dont think God is a duality necessarily....although polarity exists in the phenomenal world - the Relative. If Deity is the One and the Many...then he comprises all absolute and relative aspects of Existence. Therefore the All may include duality, but such a statement needs defining and qualification. Is this more in line with your view?



paul

[David Quinn]

Paul,

I dont think I need to prove anything. (Existence is Self-evident). God, the Totality, Existence seems like a Unity, a Whole, this entirety of Existence being ONE. - just a sense. Cant the Allness that IS be recognized as One? - just a thought, an assessment - it could be wrong or imperfect...but whose to say? I wasnt sharing a wish - just a perspective. Do you have any reason to discredit this sense?

I'm not sure that "having a sense" is an adequate basis for entrusting one's entire soul.

All sorts of people from different religions and backgrounds rely on "having a sense" for their varying beliefs. For example, fundamentalist Christians have a sense that God is a wrathful being who created the world six thousand years ago. Mainstream Christians have a sense that God is a primal loving force who cares for us. Atheists have a sense there is no God at all. And so on.

Each of these people are believing in entirely different things and they all rely on "having a sense". And yet clearly, from a logical point of view, most of these people are being fooled by their "sense", if not all of them.

I'm wondering, therefore, how you have established that your own "sense" is actually pointing you in the right direction. Or are you content with it to remain a gamble?

Cannot the Entirety of Existence, the totality have the constitutional quality of Oneness? (God being the Only Power and Presence, the Sole Mind Being) - the idea that All is One.

You tell me. Prove it to me.

-

[freelight]

Paul,

I dont think I need to prove anything. (Existence is Self-evident). God, the Totality, Existence seems like a Unity, a Whole, this entirety of Existence being ONE. - just a sense. Cant the Allness that IS be recognized as One? - just a thought, an assessment - it could be wrong or imperfect...but whose to say? I wasnt sharing a wish - just a perspective. Do you have any reason to discredit this sense?

I'm not sure that "having a sense" is an adequate basis for entrusting one's entire soul.

All sorts of people from different religions and backgrounds rely on "having a sense" for their varying beliefs. For example, fundamentalist Christians have a sense that God is a wrathful being who created the world six thousand years ago. Mainstream Christians have a sense that God is a primal loving force who cares for us. Atheists have a sense there is no God at all. And so on.

Each of these people are believing in entirely different things and they all rely on "having a sense". And yet clearly, from a logical point of view, most of these people are being fooled by their "sense", if not all of them.

I'm wondering, therefore, how you have established that your own "sense" is actually pointing you in the right direction. Or are you content with it to remain a gamble?

Hi Dave,.....still on the journey - as I shared,.....Truth(reality) by definition seems to me to be self-existent....as Truth is the Only Reality Being - what is Actual, obvious and most present! Truth/God/Reality IS. (not a gamble to me...because 'I AM' is proof enough).

Cannot the Entirety of Existence, the totality have the constitutional quality of Oneness? (God being the Only Power and Presence, the Sole Mind Being) - the idea that All is One.

You tell me. Prove it to me.

Not necessary. I was only positing/questing to see if you could offer your own insights. So do you deny All is One? You need proof that the totality makes up One Whole Entirety? Can you offer proof that God is not One? How does this relate to your perception of the Totality?

[Blair]

freelight, you are talking out of your ass.

Being in love with life only goes so far. One day it all changes.

[David Quinn]

Paul,

Truth(reality) by definition seems to me to be self-existent....as Truth is the Only Reality Being - what is Actual, obvious and most present! Truth/God/Reality IS. (not a gamble to me...because 'I AM' is proof enough).

Well, the only thing you can conclude from the thought of "I AM" is that you exist - or rather, that appearances are occuring. These appearances, however, could easily be part of a series of hallucinations whipped up by a demon. Everything that "you are" could be entirely divorced from God.

The demon could even be projecting these warm religious feelings into your mind, compelling you to believe that God is all there is, so as to conceal his existence. It may be that the true spiritual path consists not of embracing everything that we see, but to somehow find a way to go beyond the world and thereby escape the demons's clutches.

You need proof that the totality makes up One Whole Entirety? Can you offer proof that God is not One? How does this relate to your perception of the Totality?

If God is really One, then why do we see all sorts of diversity and contrasting phenomena in the world? How does the One split up into the many?

-

[freelight]

Paul,

Truth(reality) by definition seems to me to be self-existent....as Truth is the Only Reality Being - what is Actual, obvious and most present! Truth/God/Reality IS. (not a gamble to me...because 'I AM' is proof enough).

Well, the only thing you can conclude from the thought of "I AM" is that you exist - or rather, that appearances are occuring. These appearances, however, could easily be part of a series of hallucinations whipped up by a demon. Everything that "you are" could be entirely divorced from God.

The demon could even be projecting these warm religious feelings into your mind, compelling you to believe that God is all there is, so as to conceal his existence. It may be that the true spiritual path consists not of embracing everything that we see, but to somehow find a way to go beyond the world and thereby escape the demons's clutches.


)========= Now dave,...lets get real. lol.

You need proof that the totality makes up One Whole Entirety? Can you offer proof that God is not One? How does this relate to your perception of the Totality?

If God is really One, then why do we see all sorts of diversity and contrasting phenomena in the world? How does the One split up into the many?

)======== the diversity, duality, multiplicities are the manifestation of the One Mind creating infinite forms and varities thru-out the totality of the All. God however...is the primal Mind or Ground of Being which is before, behind and beyond all form...being the all-pervading ONE. So 'oneness' is more of a conceptual understanding of Deity in a contextual perception...as far as what is Absolute (this being Mind, Space, Spirit, Light, Intelligence, etc - the Undifferentiated Original Mind-Light, the I AM Self). Diversity naturally exists in creation as forms are created, conceived, perceived by Mind and for Minds own pleasure. The quandary of the One and the Many has been addressed by some teachers....as such a dilemma can be resolved with contextual understanding metaphysically. If God is All as our original thesis posits....this 'includes' all that is,....all relativities, variety, multiplicities in existence exist in the One Mind/Being that IS. These diversities do not compromise or nullify the integral Unity of Consciousness that these expressions appear in...for there is no other ground or soil in which these things could appear in apart from Consciousness Itself. I see this Mind as being One...manifesting the Many. How do you see it?



paulie

[sevens]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!

Creation, everyone.

Create with light, and you'll see light.

Prisms.

Prism:

Dictionary.com

Word of the Day for Friday November 18, 2005

lambent \LAM-buhnt\, adjective:
1. Playing lightly on or over a surface; flickering; as, "a lambent flame; lambent shadows."
2. Softly bright or radiant; luminous; as, "a lambent light."
3. Light and brilliant; as, "a lambent style; lambent wit."

I have an image in my mind of the soaring vault rising and disappearing into the gray-white silence, the niches in the salt walls where the saints dwelled, the few points of lambent gold glimmering feebly on the altar.
--Richard O'Mara, "The Unapologetic Tourist," New York Times, November 21, 1999

There, in the lambent glow of flashlight or lantern, you find the fragile rock walls covered with thousand-year-old paintings illustrating the life of the Buddha and his teachings.
--Michael O'Sullivan, "The Cave as Canvas: Hidden Images of Worship Along the Silk Road," Washington Post, January 4, 2002

Across the plaza, the lambent moonlight cast shadows on a former convent's facade of saints and angels.
--Stephen Benz, "Our Mailman in Havana," Washington Post, November 19, 2000

She wanted to tell him how she felt and feel that lambent look that was better than sunshine, his look of offering all that was in him.
--Anna Shapiro, "The Scourge," USA Today, July 23, 2001

It [the opera] is also sumptuously orchestrated, gracefully written for the singers, well-suited to the stage action, deeply felt yet tasteful in expression, and, at its best, a lambent, shimmering creation, full of beauty and nuance.
--Tim Page, "Appealing 'Dangerous Liaisons,'" Newsday, September 12, 1994

I = 1
Other = X
Continous Light Spectrum = Beyond Relativity, Absolute.

1+X = Recursive Light Spectral Matrix.

All knowledge of Nature is found in Light.

Future.

[David Quinn]

Paul,

)========= Now dave,...lets get real. lol.

I was being real. This is an important issue.

Let me put it to you another way. How have you established, with your own thinking, that God is actually real? In other words, how have you proven that the entire Universe is not, say, purely the creation of the devil? Or of a borg-like malovalent force? Simply saying "I Am" doesn't mean anything in this context. It doesn't negate the argument I am putting forth.

I get the feeling you are repeating ideas you have read in religious textbooks and haven't properly assessed them with your own rational faculties. I'm not trying to put you down here. I can see that you have already given these matters a lot of thought, but nonetheless, I am of the opinion that the scope of your analysis can be deepened a lot more. It is still hovering harmlessly above an array of unchallenged assumptions.

It could be that all of these textbooks, and all of the so-called "wise people" in the past, are totally on the wrong track. They might be completely misleading you! How have you established that they aren't?

DQ: If God is really One, then why do we see all sorts of diversity and contrasting phenomena in the world? How does the One split up into the many?

P: the diversity, duality, multiplicities are the manifestation of the One Mind creating infinite forms and varities thru-out the totality of the All. God however...is the primal Mind or Ground of Being which is before, behind and beyond all form...being the all-pervading ONE. So 'oneness' is more of a conceptual understanding of Deity in a contextual perception...as far as what is Absolute (this being Mind, Space, Spirit, Light, Intelligence, etc - the Undifferentiated Original Mind-Light, the I AM Self).

Well, you're not really saying anything here. You are simply reiterating your belief that the Many are manifestations of the One.

Diversity naturally exists in creation as forms are created, conceived, perceived by Mind and for Minds own pleasure.

Why is it "natural" for such a Mind to create forms? Why does creating forms give it pleasure? Why does it even need to experience pleasure? How do you know there is even a Mind in the first place?

Too many unfounded assumptions .....

The quandary of the One and the Many has been addressed by some teachers....as such a dilemma can be resolved with contextual understanding metaphysically. If God is All as our original thesis posits....this 'includes' all that is,....all relativities, variety, multiplicities in existence exist in the One Mind/Being that IS. These diversities do not compromise or nullify the integral Unity of Consciousness that these expressions appear in...for there is no other ground or soil in which these things could appear in apart from Consciousness Itself. I see this Mind as being One...manifesting the Many.

Again, all you're doing here is reiterating your belief in the existence of the One.

From all appearances, we are living in a materialistic universe filled with countless solid and discrete objects. Where is this Oneness exactly? Where is this Mind?

-

[freelight]

dave,

Maybe my concept of oneness also held by many others is just a belief. ok. It wouldnt be conceptualized however apart from supporting logics - whatever those are. I've shared my 'sense' on it, and I'm not necessarily saying such sense is 'absolute truth' - just a relative assumption about the Absolute All. What do you find unacceptable about the concept of God being One? - again its a matter of how we define 'one' isnt it.


Where is oneness? Its in the inherent totality of All that IS - what IS can be conceived as One Totality.

Where is Mind? Mind is everywhere being where consciousness exists. Mind is its own proof of being! It pervades thru-out. Some teachers refer to God as 'Mind'. Our own intelligence bears witness that a greater Intelligence exists. Some refer to this awareness as the God-Self....the Eternal Eye/I that beholds all that IS.

Now,....what evidence do you see that oneness of Life does not exist? And....where do you think Mind exists besides being evident by the very 'mind' that is reading this post :-)



paul

[Kevin Solway]

What IS can be conceived as One Totality.

Do you conceive of this One Totality as being composed of many discrete, independent entities, or do you dissolve the boundaries between things to arrive at the One. If the latter, what particular reasoning do you do use to achieve this?

Our own intelligence bears witness that a greater Intelligence exists.

What specifically do you mean by "greater Intelligence"? Are you thinking of a conscious being, like ourselves, who has a greater Intelligence?

Or do you think that our own individual intelligence can transform itself into that greater Intelligence, in which case there would be no Intelligence greater than our own?