IT IS...

[Dan Rowden]

Zarathustra wrote:

take the old Greeks:their whole philosophy /art/archetecture/religion/ was based on a relationship to time and space. for them 'infinite' had NO MEANING. dahh! The wise and not so wise Greekos believed that if you sailed long enough in one direction you'd fall off the edge of the world, whoops!!

Leaving aside that it is disgusting to me that you employ the user name you use, I can't believe you teach people anything. First off, the Infinite does have no meaning. What meaning could it possibly have? Secondly, the Greeks were arguably the first to demonstrate the spherical nature of the Earth. Ever heard of Aristotle, or maybe Eratosthenes of Cyrene, Thales of Miletus, Pythagoras, Anaxagoras, Heracleides of Pontus or maybe Aristarchus of Samos etc?

Get an education for fuck's sake.


Dan Rowden

[sue hindmarsh]

David Quinn wrote:

I'm not sure that I'm following you. In what way do worshippers of women and wallowers in love believe in a hidden Reality?

“Women” and “love”, the two biggies eh?

Firstly, woman and love are both concepts, (that is, constructs of mind), as is tree, light, rock and everything else you can think of. And like all concepts, these things don’t have any real existence, except that which we give them. “Woman” and “love” are subject to cause and effect equally so, as say; a dog or a view, and therefore equally empty.

Secondly, Woman and illusion is one and the same thing. That’s because the feminine mind is like the tools of the magician – all sleight of hand and tricks with mirrors. At bottom there is nothing there.
Woman is a good example to use to describe illusion, because she is continually being “made up” as the day goes along, just like everything else.

The attachment to “love” is like grease smoothing the way to keep us clinging to illusions. When we wake up in the morning and look at our husband or wife, children or puppy, and experience that warm glowing feeling rising up in us that we think is love, we are again being hoodwinked by our minds. This dependency on illusion to fuel our relationships only makes it harder for us to look closer at other concepts like “seeing”, “hearing”, “solid” and “real”. Love crushes the spirit, making it virtually impossible to think.

“Woman” and “love” are hidden realities because, as you can see from my description above, they are very powerful. They create the bases of people’s minds, like the ABC we learnt as children, helped us create words, they help keep people deluded. To pierce through the illusion of things it is useful to first understand these two concepts, because once they are seen through, everything else follows.

Does this make it any clearer?

Sue

[Leyla Shen]

Woman is a good example to use to describe illusion, because she is continually being “made up” as the day goes along, just like everything else.

Hm. If it's "just like everything else," why is She a particularly good example to use for illusion?

Yes, attachment is the problem. Attachment to any and/or all illusion, which -- in the end -- has to be the product of not understanding emptiness.

[Beingof1]

zarathustra

new age mental masturbation mind spew.........ghosts, ghosts and more ghosts.....progressive thinking my arse!!!

You are angry - and the source of this anger is fear.
You do not like being alone do you?

You are pissed off at God. You are so angry at him for making you so special and yet it will all be taken away at your death. What a rip. So yup - he is the Big Chill in your bones and this is almost paralyzing and it feels cold.

More than this, you are angry because he does not exist. How dare he create such a beautiful thing as life and not have the common courtesy to make a housecall.

When you are ready to listen - you will get answers.

[Matt Gregory]

David Quinn wrote:

The core task is to break the spell of things inherently existing and one of the first steps towards doing this is recognizing that things lack a beginning and end.

Okay, this should be really easy, right?

I have a white tea kettle with a black plastic handle screwed on top. There's a boundary between the handle and the part that holds the water. But when I'm making the tea, the two parts are one object. I don't think of them separately.

So it's really easy to think of two objects together as one.

Another thing is that when the water boils, the kettle whistles. When I hear that I think, "oh, it's the kettle". So this shows that it's equally easy to think of a sound as being associated with an object and thinking of them as one thing.

So it seems to me like you could piece together as many experiences as you want and it's equally easy to think of them as one object no matter how varied or how numerous those experiences are.

Reality itself must be a matter of thinking of all my experiences as one object, but I can't do it and I fail to see where the difficulty lies.

[zarathustra]

hey beingof1, I don't suppose you're related to sevenof9?

[Kitoak]

I think a little lesson is needed here for all...

Zarathushtra gave three commandments to his followers to enable them lead perfect lives and work for their own evolution. These are humata (good thought), hukhta (good word), and havarshta (good deeds). Good thoughts are very important in the spiritual journey of man, because all else comes out of out of thoughts only. Without good thoughts, there cannot be progress on the spiritual path. Without good thoughts one cannot subject oneself to Divine will and become qualified to receive boons from Vohu Mano. Thinking good alone is not sufficient. But one must have the courage to speak Truth all the time. One must be truthful to oneself and to others. There is no place for hypocrisy or duplicity in the life a of a true Zoroastrian. Performance of good deeds is equally important. The supreme Power of God, in the aspect of Kshatra Vairya comes to Him who engages himself in good actions. Good actions include Sraosha or service.

[Matt Gregory]

We don't do commandments around here. You better have a rationale to back up your statements lest you be pummelled.

Everyone thinks what they're doing is good, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

[zarathustra]

kitoak stop masturbating you dickhead, as my girlfirend says, a fanny is made for licking not looking at! Have you thought about jumping into bed with beingof1? I could be the beginning of a beautiful relationship...supreme power of god being GOOD? what puke. consider this:

somewhere, sometime
the first-born lying naked innocent
on the earth...

why then dear god
when he/she had no shame to cover
no antecedence

to stain its worth
did YOU dear god

create EVIL to smite its soul from birth?


please realize that post-post modernism as opposed to post modernism nither believes or disbelieves in god, but would tickle the feet of those who do and those who don't- by exposing the absurdity of BOTH positions. free your mind kitoak!!!





written by ZARATHUSTRA for your edification...

[sevens]

Blame just blurs.

What causality holds, no one knows.

Homo Erectus <-> Homo Sapien <-> ?

[zarathustra]

not blame...just a curious post post modernist....


after all, it was man who created god/s out of ignorance and fear. it stands to reason then that if god/s no longer servs man's purpose it should be sent packing, along with the steam engine...the fact that philosophers bicker over the divine one's corpse, is irrelevant...this stuff, now, today, is poison, not only in philosophy, but in politics....if you removed god, its representatives and organizations from the scene, this world would arguably be a better place...atheism, on the other hand, is just as bankrupt...the shadow of god....it seems philosophers are the ones today most intent, along with certain politicians, ignoramuses and psychopaths, in reserecting god from its ashes ( at least in the west ) of giving their creation 'validity' through various metaphysical progressive and not so progressive schools. as a dumb arse young ding bat, I stand betwixt and free from both god and its shadow...IT IS, IT IS: the wonder of it all!!!tragedy, joy, struggle, success, failure, the quest to be human - how inspiring! to care about life more than its meaning...

[David Quinn]

Zarathustra wrorte:

please realize that post-post modernism as opposed to post modernism nither believes or disbelieves in god, but would tickle the feet of those who do and those who don't- by exposing the absurdity of BOTH positions. free your mind kitoak!!!

You don't believe in the existence of Nature?

Now that's absurd.

-

[zarathustra]

not at all, I care for the trees, the stars, the rivers, the oceans,the air....I never put my groceries in plastic bags
and I don 't drive a car (my choice)....I suppose you could say that this sort of stuff is post post modernist philosophy in action...at leasts that's the way I see it...

[zarathustra]

nature?....like nation, means nothing.I like to be more specific....

[David Quinn]

Some people think of Nature - i.e. the totality of all there is - as God.

After all, Nature is indestructible, beyond life and death and the creator/destroyer of all things, which makes it an ideal candidate for the category of "God". So when you say that you don't believe or disbelieve in God, you cannot be refering to this particular God. For that would be tantamount to disbelieving the existence of "everything".

To put it another way, your agnosticism - which, from all accounts, is just ordinary, everyday agnosticism and certainly not deserving of a gratituous title like "post post modernism" - merely speaks against mediocre concepts of God, such as those found in the Christian religion. It does not deal with more advanced concepts of God.

I dare say that everyone here on this forum is just as agnostic as you are when it comes to mediocre concepts of God. No one here believes in supernatural beings and the like. You're merely stirring up issues that we've all left behind ages ago. You're dealing in kindergarten stuff.

I say it again, you only seem to be aware of the mediocre aspects of human thought, which explains why your posts are usually so juvenile and tedious. I can't see you lasting long on this forum.

-

[zarathustra]

what did hamlet say to orphilia's old man: words, words, wooorrrds....

[David Quinn]

Words are meaningful, if you have passion and intelligence.

-

[sue hindmarsh]

Leyla Shen Wrote:

Hm. If it's "just like everything else," why is She a particularly good example to use for illusion?

Yes, attachment is the problem. Attachment to any and/or all illusion, which -- in the end -- has to be the product of not understanding emptiness.

Woman is also a good example of emptiness. She is outstandingly everything and nothing. When trying to see through attachments, woman is a great place to start.

The feminine mind is malleable.

For example: 'Woman in Love'

She says that she loves you and you believe her. But is it “you” that she loves or the person she thinks you should be, or could be? Or is it that she loves what you give her; like her home, her children, her righteousness, her status, her intelligence, her role, her dignity, her emotions, her family, her pain, her passions, her money, her safety, her fun, her occupation, her friends, her sex, her thoughts, her beauty, her past, her now, her future, her life – her reality?

How can you be sure?

And are you not frightened by the prospect that she is dreaming of a whole different reality, in the arms of a different man.

And even more disturbing are your prospects if you decide to try “another woman”, because then you’ll have to relive the whole horror over and over and over…

That’s attachment for you.

Sue

[Kitoak]

zara,
first I find name calling very...lame, and not worthy of any true comment.

So now about my post, I wanted to see what you would reply, that was very interesting. Saddly, I will now admit I didn't write it, I'm not even sure I believe it, first time I read it was yesterday.

BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD KNOW....your namesake DID write it!!!!! DID command it! So if you don't believe my post, or care for it, then you need to find a different handle, because by having that handle you are support the beliefs and ideas of those who follow that philosopher. So you can read the post you left me, and insert your own name.

[sevens]

Your attempt to subjugate an entire gender, places you in your own, unique pigeon hole, Sue. A hole that both men and women have dug -- but, not really dug. Dig? What are you attempting to spin here? Certainly not Truth. Listen up:

The Nature of the Sexes contains hidden compartments - only accessible to those whose hearts have been gouged and purified. How else could you see correctly? Lover's hearts have forever been filled with an intoxicating eros - the wrong eros. Men first taste and learn this from their mother - imprinting a desire to further experience and expound upon it. Now, when a heart breaks, where is the eros left to go? - into the blood stream - as poison.

Here it stays, and if not equalized through all forms of masculinity, it turns men to mice. And many mice would wear men masks, still! So, what of it? Well, here the line between the sexes is drawn with a wobbly ball point. Any woman worthy of a man, would be able to discern what one truly is. And the importance of this realization within her, spins soot to silk.

And, of course, any man could pierce through delusion - into his, and into hers -

Matching sets.

[sevens]

Soul (psyche -- mind) Vibration, attracts what it needs to raise itself higher.

Love your lovers.

This is why we dream.

(We're made of Light)

[sue hindmarsh]

Matt Gregory wrote:

Reality itself must be a matter of thinking of all my experiences as one object, but I can't do it and I fail to see where the difficulty lies.

Reality is all about beginnings and ends – or the lack of them. To find out if a “thing” can have an existence, I always find it easiest to use a simple example, such as a cup, and then trace its existence back to see if it has a beginning.

For example: The cup is made of clay, which comes from the Earth, which comes from the Sun, which comes from the Big Bang, which comes from the Bing Bang before it, and so on and so forth.

I can do the same exercise tracing the cup’s future. The cup breaks and is thrown into the rubbish heap, where it breaks down into the Earth, which is vaporized by the exploding Sun, which then becomes part of the Big Crunch, which sets off the Big Bang, and so on and so forth.

With that as a format I change the “thing”, for another “thing”, for example; a thought, or a horse, or a feeling, and try and find its beginning or end, and in so doing practice seeing the infinite.

Matt, you've probably done this exercise many times yourself, but it is such a useful tool in breaking through those seemly impenetrable walls.


Sue

[zarathustra]

beautiful...

[zarathustra]

lost in space....danger! danger will robertson!!!

[zarathustra]

Q my man......

IT IS > belief has nothing to do with IT, only with what you
think it is.....