There Can Be Only One

[Kevin Solway]

I see how this could be seeing the All as some kind of collective totality

It is not a matter of "seeing it" that way. It is that way by definition.

the All comprising the collective consciousness/intelligence of all beings.

The All comprises of all things, by definition - not just conscious and intelligent beings.

I am not sure if 'God' is a slave of Its own fate

This is because you are not yet sure what you mean by "God".

We can study whether Joe Bloggs down the road wears the pants in his marriage, but we cannot study whether God has a free will. To know such things, you have to know exactly what you mean by "God".

But for now....we experience things with-in consciousness related to our finite existence in this realm

Consciousness means experiencing things. And you can only experience things in the world of relative things. No other kind of consciousness is possible.

Uh huh,..........because Gods Self-knowing and Intelligence is in the I AM Center of our own individual awareness. In this purivew....God as the Sole Mind Existing is the Original and Infinite Consciousness existing and knowing all that is knowable.

God cannot know anything in the normal sense, other than through us, and in the manner we know things. And we cannot possibly know everything that is knowable - eg, every discrete detail of everything happening in the Universe.

Ah,......so it appears that the Infinite includes within its Totality a myriad of finite things, expressions, matter-ial forms, things/beings, universes, etc.

All things comprise the Totality, by definition. And this must logically be Infinite.

Your understanding of cause/effect is interesting as the law of Nature/God prevails thru-out, yet this seems to include in your View that some individuals may not evolve to God-realization/salvation or a perfect perception of Truth

It could happen, through cause and effect, that all conscious life is killed-off before it attains God-realization - perhaps in the same manner that Jesus was killed, because he was different and was perceived to be a threat - or for any other reason.

I have held to a universalist View that Gods Love/Will will ultimately prevail because its His will that all be saved/delivered/restored

It is wrong for a person to presume to know God's will, especially when they aren't even sure what God is to begin with.

...brought back into perfect Unity/Marriage with the ONE, the ALL.

People are caused to become wise if they are so caused, and are caused to remain in ignorance, or die out completely, if so caused. There is no surefire way to predict the future.

. . . wave structure of matter

No scientific knowledge of any kind can be any help when it comes to understanding philosophical and spiritual matters, since all scientific knowledge rests on uncertainties, while philosophical and true spiritual knowledge rests on logical certainties.

[freelight]

I have held to a universalist View that Gods Love/Will will ultimately prevail because its His will that all be saved/delivered/restored

It is wrong for a person to presume to know God's will, especially when they aren't even sure what God is to begin with.

Well,...I was basing such a view of 'God' and His divine Will from scripture. God is Love, Light, Truth, Spirit and it is written that it is the Fathers Will that all be saved/delivered/restored to the original purpose of their being. Since the scriptures do present 'God' as a loving benevolent Father....it is His will that they prosper and fulfill the law of their being which is rooted/sourced and inspired by Love. Jesus did present God as Our Father did he not? - and doesnt a Father care for and do all He can to entrust their eternal safety and success?


Inclusive of the traditional theological understanding of 'God' or beyond them....do you presume to know what/who God is? I do hold that God is ONE, the All, the Only Deity Being. The Totality of All that IS can be nominated as 'God'. What if I hold to a scriptural revelation of who/what God is as well as the inner witness of the I AM within my own being? On one level of perception from the Absolute Plane....there is only God. On a relational level however Jesus did teach that God was our Father and taught us the law of love. Was Jesus wrong? Are the scriptures a reliable source for us to learn/discover spiritual truth and the nature of God? Is the Lords prayer that 'Thy will be done as it is in heaven also upon the earth' obselete? If our knowledge of what/who God is is paramount/foundational....then can u share with us a valid premise of where to begin so we may branch out from this core definition.

Many who study the scriptures and develop an intimate communion with the Spirit of 'God' claim to be able to know the Will of God. Do you discredit their claim to knowledge?



paul

[sevens]

Yes, Kevin.

But, Spirit is Scientific.

Is it not?

[Kevin Solway]

It is wrong for a person to presume to know God's will, especially when they aren't even sure what God is to begin with.

I was basing such a view of 'God' and His divine Will from scripture.

Scripture is only words, and can be wrongly interpreted, or false from the start.

Jesus did present God as Our Father did he not? - and doesnt a Father care for and do all He can to entrust their eternal safety and success?

We call Nature our "Mother", but it can wipe us out in an instant without a thought and not even miss us.

do you presume to know what/who God is?

Yes. I have a personal knowledge and experience of God.

What if I hold to a scriptural revelation of who/what God is as well as the inner witness of the I AM within my own being?

Once you truly know God you won't need any scriptural revelation since your every word will be scripture.

Jesus did teach that God was our Father and taught us the law of love. Was Jesus wrong?

He was wrong if he taught what was false, and he was right if he taught the truth.

If by "love" he meant understanding and right action, then he was right. But if by "love" he implied some kind of emotional feeling, then he was wrong.

Are the scriptures a reliable source for us to learn/discover spiritual truth and the nature of God?

No, they never are. Words can be interpreted in thousands of wrong ways, and may be based on falsety from the beginning.

Is the Lords prayer that 'Thy will be done as it is in heaven also upon the earth' obselete?

It depends what you mean by "will" and "heaven".

Heaven and earth are not two different places, but the same place seen though different eyes.

If our knowledge of what/who God is is paramount/foundational....then can u share with us a valid premise of where to begin so we may branch out from this core definition.

The traditional method is to investigate questions such as "What am I?" "Where did I begin?" "Where will I end?" "What is truth?" "By what manner can I discern truth?" "Why should truth matter?"

The answer to these questions cannot be found in scripture.

Many who study the scriptures and develop an intimate communion with the Spirit of 'God' claim to be able to know the Will of God. Do you discredit their claim to knowledge?

Yes, for the most part. There are only a handful of people who are qualified to properly interpret scripture and who have a valid claim to know the workings of God.

[Kevin Solway]

But, Spirit is Scientific.

Is it not?

How do you mean?

[sevens]

I mean,

I've been arrogant in my assumptions.

Finally learning the true meaning of gratitude.

--

Would you briefly share what you know about the specific progression

towards Buddhahood?

[David Quinn]

Kevin articulates the path to Buddhahood in great detail in his book, "Poison for the Heart".

For example, from the chapter entitled Stages of the Way:

The Five Stages of the Mahayana

I have chosen to describe the Mahayana path in five stages, rather than ten, or twenty, for convenience alone. Each stage lays the foundation of wisdom needed for the following stage, into which there is a smooth gradation.

To embark on the five stages one must have the prerequisites of a human form (a genuine love of reason), along with a desire to attain absolute perfection (bodhicitta), and therefore be of high scope.


1. The stage of the accumulation of merit

One can only truly enter the first stage if one has pure renunciation, or bodhicitta. During this stage, reason, concentration, and bodhicitta are further developed, and continue to increase through all the following stages. This is the "merit" which accumulates, qualifying one to proceed to the next stage. Here one abandons gross intellectually formed delusions, and the accompanying attachment to the samsaric pleasures they fuel.

The four noble truths are realized, that is:

That our world is in the nature of suffering, discontentment and imperfection.

That the causes of suffering and discontentment are our own delusions, or false concepts of reality.

That freedom and perfection are possible by abandoning false thoughts.

That a path can be followed to be systematically rid of false thoughts.

During this first stage one becomes strongly acquainted with causes and consequences, and one's actions become correspondingly skillful. One's concentration develops to the level where the full power of mind is available for use whenever one wishes to examine anything.


2. The stage of preparation

This stage is a continuation from the last. Even greater powers of reason and concentration are attained. Much deeper insight into the nature of Reality is developed and an ever improving mental picture of it. The extremes of positivism (things exist) and nihilism (nothing exists) are discarded, and with them the seeds of wrong views.

Towards the end of this stage one's powers of concentration and patience are so strong there is no chance of ever being "reborn" in any of the three lower realms (hells, pretas, animals). Such patience gives one enormous capacity to take-on suffering and to face one's fears. People who have little knowledge of suffering, like those in the deva realms, cannot attain the final part of this stage as it is too painful for them. They do not have the strong renunciation of a "human", who has less happiness to lose, and is more used to living with suffering and bearing-up under it.

With armour-like perseverance, great faith, and knowledge of Reality, a strong foundation is layed and one now feels competent to attain full realization of Reality. The highest has been understood - but the highest is not to only understand it, but to realize it.


3. The stage of Insight

Here one attains direct insight into Reality (God, Shunyata, or the Infinite), and there is fantastic joy. Before this, one confuses Reality with the mental image, or concept of it. With the power of this realization all remaining intellectually formed delusions are abandoned. However, habitual delusions remain, as well as the more subtle instinctive delusions.

One now has even more control over one's mind, and one's future "rebirths". One becomes relatively free from the fears of starvation, suffering, and physical pain.

One who has bodhicitta is called a bodhisattva. During the first two stages (above) a person is known as an ordinary bodhisattva, but with the attainment of this third stage he becomes known as an Arya-bodhisattva, or a "noble one". This stage is the first of the ten bodhisattvabhumis, or foundations for Final Enlightenment.


4. The stage of meditation

This stage is composed of the remaining nine of the ten bodhisattvabhumis. During this stage, one develops a closer acquaintance with God, which is like living with a person so as to come to know him well enough to be benefited by him.

In the beginning the grossest remaining delusions are combatted by the weakest mental force. Then, as one progresses during this stage the more subtle delusions are dispelled by an ever stronger force of mind. Step-by-step one abandons the delusions of the realms of desire, the realms of form, and the formless realms.

By the time one reaches the seventh of the ten bhumis, all habitual delusions have been abandoned, and one begins to tackle the instinctive, or subtle delusions. At this stage one moves far from the Hinayana motivation as one directly assaults the innermost core of the ego. One becomes skilled in means, and by the eighth bhumi one is unshakable. This is the level of irreversibility, and backwards slipping becomes impossible. During the ninth and tenth bhumis one becomes nearly perfect in all ways, including one's ability to teach others.


5. Buddhahood

Full Enlightenment is now attained.

Bodhisattvas cannot maintain direct realization at all times, though their thoughts at other times are empowered by their realizations. Upon reaching Buddhahood however, one can realize God fully in every moment of every day without effort.

-

[Jason]

Kevin articulates the path to Buddhahood in great detail in his book, "Poison for the Heart".

For example, from the chapter entitled Stages of the Way:

The Five Stages of the Mahayana

<snip>
-

Some parts of that quoted essay suggest that physical pain is reduced or eliminated. (According to Kevin, David and Dan's ideas) I can understand you guys believing that removal of the emotional aspects of physical pain is possible, but how do you believe your ideas can address basic physical/biological pain?

[Kevin Solway]

Some parts of that quoted essay suggest that physical pain is reduced or eliminated. (According to Kevin, David and Dan's ideas) I can understand you guys believing that removal of the emotional aspects of physical pain is possible, but how do you believe your ideas can address basic physical/biological pain?

You can't escape physical pain, but you can escape "fear of physical pain". Physical pain can be important, because without it you might not know that you had something wrong with you that needed fixing.

This lack of fear or anxiety over pain significantly lessens the pain. And further, because of the strength of mind attained through these stages, the pain can be largely blocked-out by directing the mind elsewhere, if that is deemed necessary.

[MKFaizi]

I agree with Kevin about the fear of physical pain. Working in a clinic, I see fear of physical pain much more than I see physical pain. I have seen people go through test after test after test and nothing is ever found wrong.

Then, I see people who have no fear of pain who are found to have cancer throughout their bodies -- with one CT scan -- and they are dead in a matter of a couple of months. Oddly, most people who have a deadly disease do not come to doctors complaining of pain -- or they have very little physical pain. Cancer is usually a shock.

Generally, people have a large capacity for physical pain. It is the fear of pain that incapacitates them.

Faizi

[Blair]

Then, I see people who have no fear of pain who are found to have cancer throughout their bodies -- with one CT scan -- and they are dead in a matter of a couple of months. Oddly, most people who have a deadly disease do not come to doctors complaining of pain -- or they have very little physical pain. Cancer is usually a shock.

I don't entirely believe that. Cancer causes significant pain, even in its early stages. If you have Cancer (of the malignant type), you will know about it.

How can you say someone who feels no pain, then discovers their body is riddled with cancer, is dead within 2 months? Could it be a psychosomatic response?