Zero logic

[Cathy Preston]

Bubblefish: if love is refrenced as pure exalted experience, then that is foundation of all that can be considered true. it is the foundation for the whole show. Without that truth, there is no truth.

If love is referenced as pure exalted experience - what kind of truth is that? If? Sounds like a particularily shaky (and fleeting) foundation to me. Experience is experience, once you realize that and stop with all the flowery descriptions you may decide to quit running after them, then maybe, just maybe you might get a glimpse of truth.

[hyperqube]

Do we have to go through all this crap again?

A=A.

Get over it.

Faizi

for a "genius" that is rather conventional thinking, eh? You have to um let your mind think outside the hyperqube on this one.

Our present mathematical system is based upon a perspective derivative of grouping order, or thingness. This unique mathematical system, which we will continue to explore, is derived from symmetry order, its foundational axiom reflecting the innate singleness and wholeness of existence. As a perspective it doesn't see isolated or separate objects. Although its values are definitive, it does not see finite things. In the same way that its mathematical values are a combination of other numbers, this system represents physical form only as a single unified pattern. In the way that each number contains other numbers, a number is like a possible state, a state being another term for a pattern.

One shouldn't assume this unique value system threatens our normal value system in any way. Each is built upon a perspective. Two apples are still more apples than one. We can still divide up and see the world from a finite perspective, in which case the infinite can be seen only as an indefinite process. What this system does, is allow a radical shift of perspective, so that we can also see the universe as an undivided whole, where apples are part a single universe. In symmetry math, one of the conclusions we can draw is that for there to be a positive two apples (matter), there must be a negative two apples (anti-matter) removed from the pattern that we observe. Finite form requires that the two positive apples are less than the whole of the four apples combined.

Such ideas are really very simple and increasingly sensible once one is more accustomed to switching from one perspective to the other. In the next essay we'll consider more of the implications of this system, and work toward relating it to the concept of symmetry order and the cosmology explained at this website.

for geniuses this thread so far has been quite mundane to say the least!

the universe is more strange and queer than you can imagine.

[analog57]

infinity=0

anyone care to discuss this?

All matter in the universe is considered as positive energy and all of the attractive gravitational energy is negative. Newton's law says that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So the positive energy of all matter in the universe is exactly cancelled out by the negative gravitational energy. The sum of the total positive and negative energies would then be zero.

If the universe is infinite then the negative and positive infinities would sum to zero.

But that is not quite the same as saying "infinity = 0". There is clearly a conceptual difference.

[hyperqube]

on that one you are correct.

[DHodges]

if love is refrenced as pure exalted experience,

What does that mean? Do you consider love to be pure? In what sense?

"Exalted" sounds like a value judgement, not a statement of fact.

If you mean "love" in the usual sense of strong affection, attraction, admiration, devotion, etc., then I just don't see what that has to do with truth.

[Bubblefish]

If love is referenced as pure exalted experience - what kind of truth is that? If?

Experience or 'being' being the foundation of all truth.

Sounds like a particularily shaky (and fleeting) foundation to me.

I think you may be confusing romantic concepts of love with love being an exalted experience implying union. Love is just a word, and many have thier own interpretations or emotional charges about it

Experience is experience, once you realize that and stop with all the flowery descriptions you may decide to quit running after them, then maybe, just maybe you might get a glimpse of truth.

yes, experience is experience, and then their is the experience of union, which can be had microcosmically or macrocosmicaly. It tends to be a profound experience that can transcend the reasoning mind.

[Bubblefish]

What does that mean? Do you consider love to be pure? In what sense?

Well, i define 'love' as union. I do highly value love in all of it's forms. But in this case, the only point being that if love is considered as an exalted experience, then love most certainly is a truth and the foundation of all truth.

"Exalted" sounds like a value judgement, not a statement of fact.

Exalted meaning to it's furthest potential. Experience to it's furtherst potential is union. It is the first truth the reasoning mind can say about anything for any certainty....I exist because I am 'being' or 'feeling'.

If you mean "love" in the usual sense of strong affection, attraction, admiration, devotion, etc., then I just don't see what that has to do with truth.

well, all of those things are true to the individual and truth certainly plays a role, but I agree, in general or common sense terms, those things have nothing to do with truth in the logical or rationaly defined sense, only in the personal or subjective sense.

[LooF]

infinity cannot be substituted for "A".

[Blair]

the universe is more strange and queer than you can imagine.

No, the universe is more strange and queer than you can imagine.

[LooF]

nothing is out of imagination's reach.

except nothing.

[Cathy Preston]

Bubble: yes, experience is experience, and then their is the experience of union, which can be had microcosmically or macrocosmicaly. It tends to be a profound experience that can transcend the reasoning mind.

Why do you call this experience of union love then add all your qualifiers, how can the foundation for Truth lead to anything else but the truth - yet here in your own words if it's not pure, or exalted love leads to where? If implies possibilities not actualities. Wouldn't the foundation for truth necessarily be in the realm of actuality as opposed to merely possibility.

Bubble: I do highly value love in all of it's forms.

I feel this statement can only be based on an emotional attachment, and it appears to cloud all your experience.

[Bubblefish]

Why do you call this experience of union love then add all your qualifiers, how can the foundation for Truth lead to anything else but the truth - yet here in your own words if it's not pure, or exalted love leads to where?

I am sorry, but I dont understand that question at all. That is how I define love, as 'union'. It can be physical union, family union, or higher union. Union to me is love. I dont know what else to tell you other than that. Love is the union or output of all oppositions, how I define it. So when I say love, I signify that.

If implies possibilities not actualities. Wouldn't the foundation for truth necessarily be in the realm of actuality as opposed to merely possibility.

yes. it is not a possibility that I exist, but an actuallity. I arrive at this actuality via experience.

Bubble: I do highly value love in all of it's forms.

I feel this statement can only be based on an emotional attachment, and it appears to cloud all your experience.

Who cares?

Note the word 'feel' as in 'I feel you are'..etc
tsk tsk tsk,'feelings' do not inform you of anything, and makes for cloudy thinking when you think they do!

Bubblefish

[Cathy Preston]

Bubble: tsk tsk tsk,'feelings' do not inform you of anything, and makes for cloudy thinking when you think they do!

So why do you value Love?

[David Quinn]

Hyperqube wrote:

for geniuses this thread so far has been quite mundane to say the least!

The original question you posted was pretty mundane, in my view. You come across as someone who likes to play around with concepts and words, but has no real interest in understanding reality itself. That sort of thing is very tedious and has nothing to do with genius.

As far as reality is concerned, "infinity = 0" can refer to the fact that the whole of Nature (i.e. the totality of all there is) is not really a thing. In other words, "everything" is no-thing.

But this fact, although profound, doesn't contravene the principle of A=A in any way.

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[analog57]

As far as reality is concerned, "infinity = 0" can refer to the fact that the whole of Nature (i.e. the totality of all there is) is not really a thing. In other words, "everything" is no-thing.

But this fact, although profound, doesn't contravene the principle of A=A in any way.

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How deep does this rabbit-hole go Dave?

[David Quinn]

All the way.

-

[unknown]

Who give you authority to define reality?.

How can you know the absolute? Why do you even try? when everything you say will be disregarded as your belief.

The way to understand is recognize things as it is. it meant nothing. It does exists in a way.

when you counter react , you become pawn of your own belief.

when you can't prove anything except forming a hypothetical answer to make you stop asking questions.

You can't stop it. If you don't babble you feel like you are nothing. you have to say something to prove you exists and your beliefs as well. You become alive and your belief as well.

peace
unknown

[LooF]

Who give you authority to define reality?.

How can you know the absolute? Why do you even try? when everything you say will be disregarded as your belief.

The way to understand is recognize things as it is. it meant nothing. It does exists in a way.

when you counter react , you become pawn of your own belief.

when you can't prove anything except forming a hypothetical answer to make you stop asking questions.

You can't stop it. If you don't babble you feel like you are nothing. you have to say something to prove you exists and your beliefs as well. You become alive and your belief as well.

peace
unknown

I gave myself the authority to see what Reality is. Reality is always what I experience.

And who disregards it? do you look onto others?

All IS yet there is the truth.

that is not always true. it is not belief itself, it is being inside it. Many things are false, yet some are true.

once you create your answer, you may begin doubting the answer. it doesn't have to stop.

i say because i am not sure. do you see that you have it quie strongly in yourself? do you believe in what you believe?

[hyperqube]

FLatlanders Behold

I have always found it easier to get a point across with the use of analogy. Some can glean more from the following quote than others.

from Edwin Abbot's flatland

Quote:

Flatland is the story of a man who lives in a two dimensional world--like a sheet of paper. In the surface of the paper there is only length and width-there is no such thing as thickness. You and I are three-dimensional beings-we have length and width and frequently considerable thickness. You cannot get me, a three-dimensional being, into a two-dimensional sheet of paper. You can draw a front view of me (a portrait), but that is not the whole me. You can draw a top view of me which because I am bald, ends up being three concentric circles, but that is not the whole me. If you and I were to look at the man in Flatland, we would see him as a profile (see figure 1). He would be outlined but have no thickness.

One day the man in Flatland is visited by a sphere. The sphere is a three-dimensional object just as we are, and it just so happens that it crosses Flatland right in the man's living room. Now if you will think about that for a moment, you will realize that for the man in Flatland a rather incredible thing has happened. A dot appears on the man's floor with no cause that the man in Flatland can understand. A dot in Flatland is matter! In figure 1, the man, himself, is made up of a series of dots. Just as a tennis ball dipped in paint and touched to a sheet of paper would produce a dot on the paper, so too has our dot which the man in Flatland calls matter appeared out of nothing (see figure 2). As the man in Flatland watches, the dot becomes a circle which continuously grows in size (see figure 3). You will see if a plane truncates (or slices) a sphere, it will produce a circle; and the deeper the sphere sinks into the plane, the larger the circle will become.

A sphere tangent to a plane produces a dot on the plane. The man in Flatland sees only the dot.

A plane truncating a sphere. The man in Flatland sees a circle.

The circle becomes so large it is about to fill the living room of the man in Flatland. He is terrified because he does not understand what is happening. All of the laws of science which state that matter cannot be created nor destroyed are being violated. What he sees is for him a true miracle. Just as he is about to run in panic from the room, the sphere reaches its equator, passes its equator, and gradually sinks out of the plane. So what happens to the circle in Flatland? It begins to shrink, and it becomes smaller and smaller until finally it is just a dot on his floor and then it is gone! Another violation of the laws of science! Matter cannot be destroyed and yet the man in Flatland has seen it happen. The man in Flatland is being confronted with miraculous and ghost-like events which violates his science and his common sense.

Let us suppose now that the man in Flatland begins talking to the sphere, and he says to the sphere: "What is it like to be a sphere? The sphere says, "I'll tell you what it's like; draw a circle on your floor." This is not easy for the man in Flatland to do. His perception of a circle is a constantly curving line that returns to its origin, but he cannot see all of the circle at once. He can only see the side of the circle facing him. The only way he could see a whole circle would be to be inside the circle, and if he got inside he could never get out. People in Flatland commit suicide by drawing circles around themselves that they can never get out of. Because of this it takes along time for him to draw the circle. The sphere is most impatient with all this because he could have done it instantly. Finally the circle is completed and the sphere says, "Now what I want you to do is to rotate the circle! What he has in mind is that the man in Flatland will rotate the circle about its diameter producing a sphere, but what the man in Flatland does is to rotate the circle about its circumference, spinning it like a record on a record player. "No, no--rotate it the third way,' says the sphere. "There is no third way you fool," cries out the man in Flatland, and for him this is true. There is no third way, no up and down in a thickness direction, and absolutely no way for him to comprehend what the sphere is talking about or what the sphere is. The only thing that he can understand is the world or dimension in which he lives.

[Bubblefish]

Bubble: tsk tsk tsk,'feelings' do not inform you of anything, and makes for cloudy thinking when you think they do!

So why do you value Love?

Because it is not only a wonderful feeling, but it inspires the reasoning mind. It is my reasoning mind that determines that, not my feelings. Feelings do not 'tell' us anything, they are interpreted by the mind and the mind informs. Feelings inspire the mind. Love is more than a feeling, one could say that the union of mind with feelings is 'internal' love.

Love exalts all potential.

[David Quinn]

Hyperqube wrote:

FLatlanders Behold

I have always found it easier to get a point across with the use of analogy. Some can glean more from the following quote than others.

I think you're hiding behind the coattails of others. Why not step out and say what you truly think?

-

[David Quinn]

The Babbler wrote:

Who give you authority to define reality?.

My own clear-sightedness gives me the authority.

How can you know the absolute? Why do you even try? when everything you say will be disregarded as your belief.

That is your approach. That is your belief-system. Other people may decide to take a different approach and allow themselves to be stimulated by my words, or by the words of other thinkers, and trigger greater understandings in themselves.

Your wholesale dismissal of words borders on the pathological. It indicates fear.

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[bert]

[quote="unknown"]Who give you authority to define reality?.

Hi,unknown.In this world,one is free to define.The question is:who is to be master?

How can you know the absolute? Why do you even try? when everything you say will be disregarded as your belief.
belief ,of course.but if we understand these believing of our believes,we are one step closer to fletch our wings.We gain wisdom.By the way,have you not willed your believes?They radiate from you.

The way to understand is recognize things as it is. it meant nothing. It does exists in a way.
that's a good point.the bginning of knowledge is the acceptance of all.An equation always equal

when you counter react , you become pawn of your own belief.

when you can't prove anything except forming a hypothetical answer to make you stop asking questions.
What if I say this:All things are in flux,nothing is static,but our thruths are not immutable,and dynamic differences appear contrary to our interrelatability.
Is this an hypothetical answer or an acceptance of things we can relate.


peace
unknown[/quote]
What a nice guy...

[unknown]

"Your wholesale dismissal of words borders on the pathological. It indicates fear."

What is fear when there is no words to describe it?. Do you get it?.

"Other people may decide to take a different approach and allow themselves to be stimulated by my words, or by the words of other thinkers, and trigger greater understandings in themselves."

Stimulated? Or just dependency for words as you have been conditioned for so long. Words induce illusions. You like to live in illusion than reality.

Reality does n't own. No words in reality. Words are human created things.

What exists is energy. if human never created the words , he would be communicating energy. May be like a monkey? HAHAHA.

You do not know. Energy is unlimited entity. Words are limited domain. BOXY world.

peace
unknown

[David Quinn]

The Babbler wrote:

DQ: "Your wholesale dismissal of words borders on the pathological. It indicates fear."

TB: What is fear when there is no words to describe it?. Do you get it?.

All I see is someone hiding behind a frozen mask.

DQ: Other people may decide to take a different approach and allow themselves to be stimulated by my words, or by the words of other thinkers, and trigger greater understandings in themselves."

TB: Stimulated? Or just dependency for words as you have been conditioned for so long.

It depends on the listener. Not everyone who uses words, or listens to words, is addicted to them. If that was the case, then you would be guilty of that as well.

Words induce illusions. You like to live in illusion than reality.

Reality does n't own. No words in reality. Words are human created things.

Then why are you on this forum, day after day, spouting words?

Don't you believe in your own philosophy?

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