Concepts and their source.

[Tofara_Moyo]

In my time away from this forum, i have considered what poeple believe here and their arguments. i will take a path through my analysis and not try to cover everything. Hopefully the path will take care of that implicitly.

firstly what is a concept in an objectively real world
i beleive that the world is real and that the brain is made of neurons that are physically there in existace. we must first note the role of causality within the brain. in the brain there are networks and subnetworks of neurons. There is a pattern of firing in the brain that is caused by sensory input. but this is not random. seeing a cat will cause a certain sequence of firings to occur in the brain. different cats cause similar sequences to occur with proportionality of the similarity of sequence and the similarity of the cats being maintained. What this imply is that there is oneness between reality and the firing of the neurons. The causal regularities in the world govern the regularities within the brain. The function of association within the mind derives completely from this correspondence.
it is as if the brain is a cog and reality is the wheel. The thoughts that reading this post are causing are a function of the association between the presence of the text within reality and the neurons it is causing o fire.

The typed word "the" will cause similar sequences of firing neurons to what it did at other times you have met it because causally within reality it is associated with the words (typed) that come before and after. to the extent that the words that precede nd follwo it differ is the extent that proportionately different subnetworks kick in, which is a good thing because that simply represents the differeing meaning between the two "the"s.

In short your thoughts follow the trajectory that reality dictates, and since reality is not random neither are your thoights.
i now need to justify how i can move from describing the brain and use the term thoughts which properly belong in the domain of the mind.

The question what is a concept? can best be answered by what is information and how is it represented. When you see a cat, the broader definition of the knowledge of cat or the concept of a cat is the particular sequence of neurons that seeing a cat causes. A particular cat will be identified with a particular sequence of neurons , while their generality is captured by the general pattern that cats cause. Within the brain , when you think of a cat, it is because a sequence of neurons firing within a subnetwork (perhaps the frontal cortex) has spilt over causaly and influenced the neurons that fire whenever a cat is seen ,to fire. this conditions them and represents the thought "cat".

What of our personal lives? if this process is happening , why cant it just be a physical process and not psychological.

the key to this is that the information contained in a physical system that functions like the brain is isomorphic to the information contained within a mind. information is probability theory and likelihoods of outcomes . a probability distribution contains a signature , which is the various likelihoods of events that consitute it posses. in that context, a mental model and a physical model contain the same information and can be used interchangeably. if you think a thought, you were caused physically to think it, by the physics of neurons and the caused nature, since this process has the same probabilty distribution of a mental model they become isomorphic and establish an equivalence.

The question then becomes what comes before the other , probability distributions or concepts. concepts change from person to person and context to context. What this means is that the events that causaly lead to each realisation of the "same" concept are different to the extent that the two instances differe. which would be expected since the difference explains the different needs for the different realisation.

also different people may share a similar concept only in terms of the probability distribution of the firing neurons and their isomorphism with each other. note that it is isomorphism more than exactness of copy that make the two brains think similar concepts. and the only reason there is an isormorphism is because both brains have a causal correspondence with the same reality.

The fate of a concept then takes on causal role. The cycle of neuronal firings in the brain exist for one purpose, either to presently cause a particular output (in terms of actiions) or to eventualy lead up to particular output r action. from an evolutionary perspective , that is all that is necessary to produce fit behaviour. if inputs always led to outputs directly the the exact same input would cause the exam same output. creating a diversion of the signal that would later on influence the output together with the input at that time, makes it possible for behviour to be modulated, but this is still fully caused. this diversion of the signal contains the same probability content of a mind that concives of the things that physical correlates of the signal conditioned by other subnetworks , that are not immediatly connected to the senses represent.

i hope that this is sound so far.

It can be seen that that is the reason knowlgde and concepts are grounded. The concept "the" may not be grounded directly within reality, but is associated with a certain neuronal sequence that has a probability distribution, and the probbility of that sequnece firing depends on the neurons that fired before and their connections all the way to the physical reality , either presently or sometime in the past.

[jufa]

Intellectually we grasps psychological, philosophical and religious doctrines, but never see the core of why these concepts never reveal to our minds, the trap doors Mother Earth has set to make us ignore we are at war with ourselves, and thus, the world and people therein. We are the Manchurian Candidates of our own Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. The ideas we receive out of the silence are all we are mentally, physically, and spiritually. They are the three dimensions of man, and what he believes makes him, in the flesh, whole, complete, perfect, and the pure image of truth. All men and their concepts are the structures built of their living between the arc of birth and death crumble for them when there is no breath to feed the brain. Should man stand on their foundation, and just allow them to flow through them without hindrance of idealistic human thought, there would be no chaos, confusion, not dualism to off-set God's fulfilling reason, intent, and purpose while they journey through their limits of time.

The ideas which are filtered through man's brain and thrown out to the world are mostly shortcut by the ideas of universal human intellectual interpretations. This is where chaos of theories, opinion, concepts, and the likes find a foothold of persuasion upon man's will. Someone, though, has to stand still eventually and glimpse for themselves what must be done to advance beyond the human mind. The real challenge is not in letting go, but in figuring out how to live in the world, but not be of the world, because this is what letting go means.

Each individuals perception represents a direction of thought, a foundation of circumstances, situations, and conditions real only to them In the world of matter. It is man's seed of life, growth and maturity of aggression or regression, of marching time, or progressively stepping onward and upwards. This seed of life contains man's beliefs that his power of spirit produced all physical designs, moral principles, and patterned forms from concepts of two potentials which his human mind received, retained, interpreted and finalized as thoughts of reality activated by demonstration of manifesting those thoughts in his daily living. No concept given energy of activation returns void to an individual. Each concept allows an individual to see only what their mind projects as principles, patterns and designs which cannot be grasped in complete form, because all comprehensible tenets and visions of men are fragmented human interpretations.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tofara_Moyo]

Human thoughts are truth conditioned on survival.

[jufa]

Should it be true

Human thoughts are truth conditioned on survival.

what then were the conditions of survival for human thoughts when human thoughts had no independent survival tendecies to rely upon before entrance into the realm of time, space, distance, and matter, that would make human thought conditional to survival of what???

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tofara_Moyo]

Should it be true

Human thoughts are truth conditioned on survival.

what then were the conditions of survival for human thoughts when human thoughts had no independent survival tendecies to rely upon before entrance into the realm of time, space, distance, and matter, that would make human thought conditional to survival of what???

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

the mistake you make is that you believe in objective meaning rather than probabilistic meaning. The only reason and way thoughts exist is as a function of the information contained in the firing of neurons.

human thoughts did not enter anything, they are an isomorphism of a physical model that contains exactly the same information content as a mind. Note that mind is also a sequence of neuronal patterns or a general sequence.

When you think "mind" it is because certain neurons are firing. But the exact same neurons do not fire every time you think mind, its a probabilistic description. one can ask , what seperates that sequence from other sequences hen. the answer is that it represents a motif in the firing pattern found within the brain.

In the end thoughts are probabilistic models of a mind, while the brain is the reality. imagine a continuos probability distribution. It will have within it peaks that represent thoughts. The more cloder you are to the peak the closer you are to the average meaning of the thought that is represented by information within that region.

The conditions were not for the survival of thoughts but of physical humans. What happened was that creating a mapping between the state of the environment and actions in a human being that was direct was not optimal.
so the signal from the environment was caused to deviate for a while in a state where it is not causing actions. while it deviates certain threads between its pathways lead down into actions while new environment states continuously produce current outputs and cause signals to oscilate in the brain till they cause certain outputs in the future.

Now the signal that oscilates in the brain is composed of motifs. certain sequences that once started , causaly lead to other seuqences. if you take these mtifs and create a model out of them that model will be isomorphic with our use of the word mind.

[Tofara_Moyo]

Evolution conditioned the individual to survive through modulating his actions by mapping the state of the environment to actions. If this were all then the exact same state would elicit the exact same actions from an individual, and there would be no "experience" on which to base the modulation of behaviour.

So to solve this problem , nature had it that inputs at time t should have an effect at time omega t where omega is an arbitrary long period.

so to thsi end , a mechanism was placed or developed to divert the input signal, and send it on a run around, untill it was necesary for it to influence behaviour after omega amount of time.

This is all that was needed to make the mapping of envioronment to actions a function. Similar environments could produce vastly dfferent actions, and continuity of the underlying function was maintained , where small changes to inputs should cause small changes to outputs. With the conditioning by the diverted signal this condition of functions was able to be mantained and hence optimisation became possible.

A thought then would be simply identified with a motif of neuronal firings. a pattern.Upon seeing a cat certain neurons will fire in sequence, while different cats cause different sequences that whose divergence is goverend by the divergenece the reall cats have.

This system has many layers. While the signal from the environment could be diverted till it eventually caused an output, internaly networks and subnetworks composed of motif sequences would partition the brain and work under the condition that changes in the state of one subnetwork caused canges in anouther through a diversion of the signal through other subnetworks till they eventually had their effect.

So while the sight of a cat could cause the general pattern associated with seeing a cat, that pattern could occur even when there was no cat, but conditioned and triggered by a nother subnetwork in the brain (perhaps in the pre frontal cortex ) and would associate with the thought cat.

Our personal inner lives are really them a probabilistic model, governed by the information content of the motif based firing sequnces. Becaseu the information content in the physical model i described containes the same information content (in terms of the likelihoods of associations of firing sequences) as a mind describing them it becomes isormorphic and an equivalence relation is established.

[jufa]

It is stated by Tofara_Moyo

"the mistake you make is that you believe in objective meaning rather than probabilistic meaning. The only reason and way thoughts exist is as a function of the information contained in the firing of neurons.

human thoughts did not enter anything, they are an isomorphism of a physical model that contains exactly the same information content as a mind. Note that mind is also a sequence of neuronal patterns or a general sequence.

The conceiving, ... which is the reception of thought from one thinking entity into the thinking thought process of another thinking entity ... (you do realize physical intercourse between to units are thought interjection and transference don't you?) ... the forming, the moniker which is an individual identify does not belong to them. Neither does it belong to the two intimate partners. The conceived unit within the host incubator of thought injection does not even have the capacity, nor autonomy to think, analyze, nor project thought concerning anything in this world before, or after being conceived, or upon exiting the owner host until it grasp and Spirit enters their flesh, and that which is the invisible substance and essence of Spirit elect to enter that conceived unit. Should not the unknown invisible substance and essence of Spirit not elect to enter the body by breath intake, that which emerger from the host body would be stillborn, and no

sequence of neuronal patterns or a general sequence

would continue the life of thinking of the unit host it has survived because of, and make it a thinking independent unit of awareness outside of its host.

It is the invisible breath of Spirit entrance into the emerging unit which takes possession of the conceived, as well as the DNA traits received, from two different units, which allows the unit conceived to enter the human world and become aware of the function of the physical world it seek to imitate in that frame of awareness it has received from the invisible which does not give no logic or reason "to be or not to be."

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tofara_Moyo]

If you abandon your quest for objective meaning you will realise that nothing "enters" anything. There is a movement from one information distribution (that doesnt describe a mind) to one that does. This is a continuos distribution and where conscious like traits proloferate after a certain boundary and the distribution captures the information content of the description of a mind.

There is no free will sure. A concept is defined by its use, not its meaning. That is why an instance of a concept can have a different nuance from another.

[jufa]

Tofara_Moyo states:

Evolution conditioned the individual to survive through modulating his actions by mapping the state of the environment to actions. If this were all then the exact same state would elicit the exact same actions from an individual, and there would be no "experience" on which to base the modulation of behaviour.

So to solve this problem , nature had it that inputs at time t should have an effect at time omega t where omega is an arbitrary long period.

so to thsi end , a mechanism was placed or developed to divert the input signal, and send it on a run around, untill it was necesary for it to influence behaviour after omega amount of time.

Spirit's entrance give cognitive validation to the flesh body. But in so doing makes the mind-set of flesh vulnerable to its itself and human DNA traits found only in time, space, distance and matter. So when Spirit enters into this parenthesis of flesh, that unit of flesh must find an authority it can believe in when it is awaken to flesh senses to evolve.

Once this entering Spirit occupies the flesh entity, that entity becomes awoke to the illusion of time, space, distance and three dimensional matter which clothe the entire unit with a dual mindsets. It matters not whether the conceived acknowledge the dual presence of its mother and father traits, this entity now has becomes covered with the spirits of the earth, and will need the guidance of Something unknown to the human mind to find justice and mercy, in the forest of human thoughts to keep it on the straight and narrow path so its feet, and mentality does not morph into clay, and its consciousness does not become partial, and its mind does not become possess of thoughts which does not belong to it.

Should any individual acknowledge these event heretofore mentioned to be a true, this begs the question where, and who, and what, when, and why would its thinking facility allow it to enter into the the forest at the darkest point where limitation placed it in the snake pit of illusion and hell, to evolve in a repetitious culdesac?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tofara_Moyo]

Jufa , what is a spirit, what is it made of.

is there any way to falsify your statements? if so how?

[jufa]

Tofara_Moyo whatever you think, you think from the Spirit of life you are. Spirit is therefore your Consciousness. If you think, or believe you exist on your own, you deceive yourself for it is impossible for you to exist, no less for your brain to function without Consciousness. Consciousness is the infinite substance and essence underlining creation. You are the consciousness of Spirit, yet Spirit is the only source of your consciousness.

To be sure, it is your awareness that no matter how old you become, you yet feel you are absolutely the same as when you were young. Spirit is that unknown Something within you which is unaltered and always remains absolutely the same, which does not grow old with you. It is the core of your inner nature, and

does not lie in time

paraphasing Authur Schopenhauer

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tofara_Moyo]

is there any way to falsify your statements? if so how?

[jufa]

is there any way to falsify your statements? if so how?

Isn't that what you have been attempting to do without success? Sorry, you're on your own.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Tofara_Moyo]

The falsifiability of a statement does not prove it false.

I am trying to prove it false not trying to falsify it. I am asking you to come with a state of affairs, that if true prove your statements false. That is very different from asking you to prove that your statements are indeed false. if your statements are not falsifiable then they have no basis to be true.

[jufa]

The falsifiability of a statement does not prove it false.

I am trying to prove it false not trying to falsify it. I am asking you to come with a state of affairs, that if true prove your statements false. That is very different from asking you to prove that your statements are indeed false. if your statements are not falsifiable then they have no basis to be true.

Seems you are seeking, from me, something to give evidence of your statements in this post being true. But then you must give evidence what I have stated is hypothetical, and not revelation. This is the foundation of debate, and what you state, or have stated, compared to what I have presented, will give evidence my presentation is 1st- hypothetical, and 2nd- does not erase you book adapted unprovable suppositions.

You can easily evidence my presentation as hypothetical by presenting from your own experience a scenario which offers

a state of affairs, that if true prove ... statements false.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa