The path to wisdom in a nutshell

[David Quinn]

This brief passage by Hui Neng describes the spiritual process to enlightenment with tremendous simplicity and depth. If you were to follow it religiously, you wouldn't need any other instruction.

• Let your mind be in a state such as that of the illimitable emptiness, but do not attach it to the idea of 'vacuity'. Let it function freely. Whether you are in activity or at rest, let your mind abide nowhere. Forget the discrimination between a sage and an ordinary man. Ignore the distinction of subject and object. Let the Essence of Mind and all phenomenal objects be in a state of Thusness. Then you will be in samadhi all the time.

[jufa]

What you have suggested about spiritual path to enlightenment is poppycock. You have presented some other persons concept, which is not your direct experience, which means you are not telling the truth but speaking "with tremendous simplicity and depth" hearsay.

You do not know if Hui Neng is enlightened for you have not defined enlightenment's base, nor robe of cover for all mankind. So then what you have posted does not ascertain, you nor Hui Neng are enlightened even if the both of you have followed the "brief passage by Hui Neng describes," for neither of you can direct a path to Grace and wisdom that fits the footsteps of each individual's uniqueness.

This is pure speculation, on your part, what you have posted .

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[David Quinn]

What you have suggested about spiritual path to enlightenment is poppycock. You have presented some other persons concept, which is not your direct experience, which means you are not telling the truth but speaking "with tremendous simplicity and depth" hearsay.

It does come out of my direct experience. That is why I posted it.

You do not know if Hui Neng is enlightened for you have not defined enlightenment's base, nor robe of cover for all mankind.

I have been defining enlightenment's base for nearly twenty years on this forum. A person reaches enlightenment when he succeeds in eliminating all of his delusions about the nature of reality.

So then what you have posted does not ascertain, you nor Hui Neng are enlightened even if the both of you have followed the "brief passage by Hui Neng describes," for neither of you can direct a path to Grace and wisdom that fits the footsteps of each individual's uniqueness.

On the contrary, it fits perfectly with each individual's uniqueness.

If you want to critique Hui Neng's passage, be my guest. But try to address the actual content of the passage. Simply issuing vague, half-baked hit-jobs on his character is not going to cut it.

[jufa]

[

David Quinn - "It does come out of my direct experience. That is why I posted it."

There is nothing here of your experience, just your saying the above without structural background.

David Quinn - "I have been defining enlightenment's base for nearly twenty years on this forum. A person reaches enlightenment when he succeeds in eliminating all of his delusions about the nature of reality."

The problem you have in overcoming your

"speaking "with tremendous simplicity and depth" hearsay."

is as stated in my opening post: " what you have posted does not ascertain, you nor Hui Neng are enlightened even if the both of you have followed the "brief passage by Hui Neng describes," for neither of you can direct a path to Grace and wisdom that fits the footsteps of each individual's uniqueness."

And as far as your saying

On the contrary, it fits perfectly with each individual's uniqueness.

well, it doesn't fit mine.

But not only this, you seem to have trouble pinpointing

the actual content of the passage

of Hui Neng to discuss being of your experience also, as you claim.

Taking another step, please, if you will, definitively show the readers what Hui Neng states is not his interpretation only, but omniscient truth. Or display precisely my

half-baked hit-jobs on his character

Your assumption other know what you mean does not have value.

Finally I repeat "What you have suggested about spiritual path to enlightenment is poppycock."

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[David Quinn]

[

David Quinn - "It does come out of my direct experience. That is why I posted it."

There is nothing here of your experience, just your saying the above without structural background.

Again, I've spent twenty years on this forum talking about enlightenment with my own voice. You surely must know this. You have been here long enough. So I can only conclude that you are arguing out of bad faith. You are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, as befits the motto in your signature, which makes you very tedious. I don't expect this conversation to last much longer.

Talking about the motto in your signature, it is worth analyzing in some detail and seeing what pops out:

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

- The first thing that comes to mind is that it is defensive. "Everyone I meet wants to control me. I must not give an inch or I will be doomed". It verges on paranoia. Blinkers are set up. Human interactions are reduced to a simple binary exercise of dominance and submission. "I must create a fortress around me because I fear my mind is not strong enough to cope with the outside world". This fits in with the overall tone of your posts, which is rigid and hostile.

- The second thing that comes to mind is that it eliminates the possibility of rational discourse and shared understanding. After all, the very act of understanding and acknowledging another person's point of view involves an act of submission. You are, in that very moment, submitting to the validity of their point of view. But no, we can't do this at any cost, lest we become doomed. Hence the barriers are permanently raised and an isolation chamber is set up, into which you can snuggle safely. Underneath it all is the desire to go back to the womb.

- This then begs the question: If it is an error to have one's mind changed by another person's point of view, then it is equally an error to express one's own point of view in the hope that it might change the minds of others. So why write to this forum in the first place? Why engage in any kind of communication at all? If it is your intention to change other people's minds, then you are violating your own motto. If it is not your intention to change other people's minds, then your discourse becomes little more than babble.

- To sum up: A paranoid man with an incoherent philosophy hiding in an ego fortress pretending it is wisdom.

[jufa]

Your twenty years on this forum talking about enlightenment does not mean a thing to me. I've been talking about it way longer than that, but that only tells the readers everyone has their opinions. But the crucial issue here is you cannot

direct a path to Grace and wisdom that fits the footsteps of each individual's uniqueness."

Nope, not going to allow you to change the subject. The topic is

The path to wisdom in a nutshell

If you cannot stick to the subject matter, your rattling about my signature, and your psychological opinions means - this discussion with us is no more. And I want you to know you concepts are no more truthful than any other persons opinion in this world. If you can't point anyone to their unique path, what good are your words?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[David Quinn]

I want you to know you concepts are no more truthful than any other persons opinion in this world.

Ah, your motto is now cranked into top gear!

Wisdom in a nutshell: Opinions do not exist.

[jufa]

I want you to know you concepts are no more truthful than any other persons opinion in this world.

Ah, your motto is now cranked into top gear!

Wisdom in a nutshell: Opinions do not exist.

So lets get to the nub of

The path to wisdom in a nutshell

The path not to wisdom but of wisdom ------every individual has Wisdom's fullness in them. It activated Itself in the material flesh realm with the first intake of omniscience Spirit-----is discovered within ones self. No where else is Wisdom to be found. The problem with mankind is they've been duped by the law of materiality, and the law of mind to believe they have control. The ignorance is not in what they think, see or do, it is the world's belief of indoctrinating people to think they see and do because of them self. But man does not do anything because of himself for he is, without realizing, a dependent of the Spirit of world compassion to make life better and the people of the world also. We all are dependents of one thing, and one thing only, infinite potential to "make of two, (dual mindedness) one new man."

Allow me Let me give you are example I have used (which mankind must come to see and know) which came from M. L. King.

When you arose this morning and went to the bathroom and reached for a bar of soap, you don't realize that was handed to you by a French man. And then you reached for a sponge, only to find that handed to you by a Turk; or maybe you wanted a towel, only to find that placed in your hand by a Pacific Islander. Then you went to get some breakfast, and reached for a cup of coffee, only to find the outstretched hand of a South American giving it to you; or maybe you wanted some coco, only to find that handed to you by a West African; or maybe it was tea you wanted, only to find your hand reaching out to take it from a Chinese. Or maybe you wanted some toast and reached for the bread, only to find that being handed to you be an English speaking farmer, not to mention the baker. Before you got through with breakfast this morning you were dependent on more than half the world.

So

The path to wisdom in a nutshell

comes down to what have you done to help others, for in helping others, and I'm not talking about helping others looking for a reward in return, you let your light shine, and that which you have released, enhances your soul, as well as others, and then the harmony of One Life begins to take on a meaning. And where you need help, one finds that help comes to them from out of the invisible, because one have given out of the invisibility of ones self.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[David Quinn]

Okay, boiling your words down to their essence, I can discern four basic points: wisdom can only be found inside of us; we are dependent upon the rest of the world for our existence; be an example to others; trust in the Infinite.

I basically agree with these points and indeed they are implicitly covered in the Hui Neng quote above. It's a shame, then, that you spoil it all with a bunch of inconsistencies. For example:

- Why do you aggressively jump on others for posting a quote from someone else, only to do exactly the same thing with your quote from Martin Luther King?

- Why do you claim that no one's point of view is more truthful than anyone else's, only to present your own viewpoint as though it was more truthful than everyone else's?

- Why do you preach a message of tolerance and openness in such a defensive and hostile way, capped off by the aggressive quote at the foot of each of your posts?

You may or may not have something worthwhile to say, but at the moment it is being obscured by these inconsistencies. If you want to be a light in this world, you really need to clear this up.

[jufa]

Earlier I stated

Nope, not going to allow you to change the subject. The topic is...The path to wisdom in a nutshell

But you do not seem to understand this, and what's even more lacking is your ability to expand the very topic you started so the readers can see a light

process to enlightenment with tremendous simplicity and depth.

I will not veer, I will stand fast on what I present and how I reference clarity by quotes to make others say "aha, never have a path been built so smooth in directions."

Always there will be human standards and laws we individually follow personally to establish conformity with our upbringing, living, achieving, and inspiration. For ourselves, as we the world, set standards and laws true to moral integrity and selfishness. Should we sway, demonstratively, in anyway from these standards and laws, we lie to ourselves from without the same as we lied to ourselves within.

Consciousness set standards of principles, patterns, statues, and precepts grounded in "where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." But the question arise from sentient minds: how can we the mass collective individually achieve conscious Spirit integrity, as a standard, when we do not know the purpose of life is to regain our rightful place in knowledge and wisdom when identification of our divine Soul is Incomprehensible Spirit, which even now moves "upon the face of the waters," and does not allows us to speak the Word "Let there be light which expose God's path to achieve alignment with He "who found it not robbery to be equal with God"?

The command is "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Now I'm not speaking of another time other than Now, for there is no other Now to live but that which is being lived Now. Now, in the reality of living within its fullness requires discipline. Discipline lays the groundwork which sets individual standards for achieving ones return to the Silence of the Unknown Incomprehensible. And in laying the groundwork for this task, to the mind imbues with Spirit Integrity, this standard allows one to see individuality of pain and suffering, in the world of the sentient minds, is caused by remembrance. The Spirit teaches where Spirit Integrity is dominant movement of consciousness, the last enemy of mankind is indeed death. Should one not be willing to die to live, there can be no metamorphosis of the old back to the beginning place of being One.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Yes this tendency of the mind to abide, the will to rest somewhere, results in waffling to obscure the light, in words of others or our own.

[jufa]

Yes this tendency of the mind to abide, the will to rest somewhere, results in waffling to obscure the light, in words of others or our own.

Such is the chicanery of the mind to make one think "The 'Moving Finger" does not write, "Having Writ moves on" knowing to abide is stagnation.

But Wisdom knows not of waffling when life is a continuum of clarity of the light of the Word from all prism.

Wisdom is what this topic is about, not profiling a mind whose purpose is to oppose Wisdom for survival in eternal temporal.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Pam Seeback]

David Quinn: This brief passage by Hui Neng describes the spiritual process to enlightenment with tremendous simplicity and depth. If you were to follow it religiously, you wouldn't need any other instruction.

Let your mind be in a state such as that of the illimitable emptiness, but do not attach it to the idea of 'vacuity'. Let it function freely. Whether you are in activity or at rest, let your mind abide nowhere. Forget the discrimination between a sage and an ordinary man. Ignore the distinction of subject and object. Let the Essence of Mind and all phenomenal objects be in a state of Thusness. Then you will be in samadhi all the time.

Is it not true that one would have to have been exposed to Buddhism or Hinduism to understand the terms 'emptiness' and 'samadhi?'

jufa: Such is the chicanery of the mind to make one think "The 'Moving Finger" does not write, "Having Writ moves on" knowing to abide is stagnation.

But Wisdom knows not of waffling when life is a continuum of clarity of the light of the Word from all prism.

Because Wisdom is the only power at play, if there is an analysis of 'chicanery', the analysis is of wisdom is it not?

Placing forward two powers - wisdom and the mind or wisdom versus the mind - is why thoughts such as stagnation and waffling arise. In truth, spirit or consciousness never stops expressing Itself, in truth, spirit or consciousness is never stagnant or waffling. Hui Heng's words via David Quinn via jufa via Pam are always now and new because there is no other experience but now and new.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

. In truth, spirit or consciousness never stops expressing Itself, in truth, spirit or consciousness is never stagnant or waffling. Hui Heng's words via David Quinn via jufa via Pam are always now and new because there is no other experience but now and new.

Everything can be reduced to a bowl of something --it's called "reductive reasoning". And it can perhaps feel like some accomplishment!

The path to wisdom is very much one of nutshells, going for essentials without destruction. Raising quality and lowering obstructions.

Consciousness is all about the waffling and the culling of our mind. Stop seeking it as quality outside conversations and observations!

[jufa]

. In truth, spirit or consciousness never stops expressing Itself, in truth, spirit or consciousness is never stagnant or waffling. Hui Heng's words via David Quinn via jufa via Pam are always now and new because there is no other experience but now and new.

Everything can be reduced to a bowl of something --it's called "reductive reasoning". And it can perhaps feel like some accomplishment!

The path to wisdom is very much one of nutshells, going for essentials without destruction. Raising quality and lowering obstructions.

Consciousness is all about the waffling and the culling of our mind. Stop seeking it as quality outside conversations and observations!

Being it is stated

Everything can be reduced to a bowl of something

and

--it's called "reductive reasoning"

then reductive reasoning should pinpoint that

bowl of something

giving the reductive reason to reach a concrete conclusion to stand upon. I see no such platform, no clue of deductive reasoning to verify a bowl of something exist. Waffling by the one who states such yes, for there is no anchor to provide reductive reasoning to be found here. There is this attempt to say what consciousness is without defining what consciousness is.

Moreover. the culling here is seen in the statements

going for essentials without destruction. Raising quality and lowering obstructions.

without providing a means of travel, nor an elevator for rising or lowering ones ability to even begin such and endeavor.

Reductive reasoning requires a jumping off point to reach the point of conclusive reasoning for discrimination. Don't seem to be able to find the point of particulars her to verify the statement presented here, in a nutshell.


Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[David Quinn]

David Quinn: This brief passage by Hui Neng describes the spiritual process to enlightenment with tremendous simplicity and depth. If you were to follow it religiously, you wouldn't need any other instruction.

Let your mind be in a state such as that of the illimitable emptiness, but do not attach it to the idea of 'vacuity'. Let it function freely. Whether you are in activity or at rest, let your mind abide nowhere. Forget the discrimination between a sage and an ordinary man. Ignore the distinction of subject and object. Let the Essence of Mind and all phenomenal objects be in a state of Thusness. Then you will be in samadhi all the time.

Is it not true that one would have to have been exposed to Buddhism or Hinduism to understand the terms 'emptiness' and 'samadhi?'

Yes, that's true. It is a teaching that is specifically tailored for advanced students. Not only do you need to have a good grasp of what "emptiness" and "samadhi" mean, but you also need a solid intellectual understanding of the illusory nature of all things.

What I like about the passage is that it brings together the various strands of the spiritual endeavour - e.g. the intellectual understanding of beginninglessness and endlessness, the primal Zen riddle of reaching enlightenment by abandoning enlightenment, the importance of ceasing to grasp at things, the transcending of all duality, etc - and integrates them all into a simple, clear description of the meditation process. It really is quite brilliant.

[jufa]

David Quinn wrote: ↑

Yes, that's true. It is a teaching that is specifically tailored for advanced students. Not only do you need to have a good grasp of what "emptiness" and "samadhi" mean, but you also need a solid intellectual understanding of the illusory nature of all things.

What I like about the passage is that it brings together the various strands of the spiritual endeavour - e.g. the intellectual understanding of beginninglessness and endlessness, the primal Zen riddle of reaching enlightenment by abandoning enlightenment, the importance of ceasing to grasp at things, the transcending of all duality, etc - and integrates them all into a simple, clear description of the meditation process. It really is quite brilliant.

What you are stating is chitta, “mind chatter", for Of all meditation people practice and indulge in. Of all study of the Bible, Koran, Torah, Vedas, and Sandskit people spend their lives attempting to empty themselves of duality, they have not understood God does not care. God is unaware of them and their personal plight concerning anything. God is not a personal deity to anyone, and cannot not have a personal relationship with anyone because "God is no respector of persons." Neither is God a personal genie, at any person's beck and call - open-sesame-, to be realized through human intellectual endeavor.

What is it that has made people so empty and void it is Spirit which makes intercession and moves ones into the deep things of God. That light is the means that commands darkness to become absorb back into the Nature of God, and the Word. "God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and truth." If humans could worship God, what need would there be for meditation?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Pam Seeback]

. In truth, spirit or consciousness never stops expressing Itself, in truth, spirit or consciousness is never stagnant or waffling. Hui Heng's words via David Quinn via jufa via Pam are always now and new because there is no other experience but now and new.

Everything can be reduced to a bowl of something --it's called "reductive reasoning". And it can perhaps feel like some accomplishment!

The path to wisdom is very much one of nutshells, going for essentials without destruction. Raising quality and lowering obstructions.

Consciousness is all about the waffling and the culling of our mind. Stop seeking it as quality outside conversations and observations!

There is no 'our mind', there is only consciousness thinking 'our mind' (ignorance) and consciousness realizing there is no 'our mind' (wisdom) - this is the culling of consciousness of its own belief in dualism. Then and only then does every thought of 'outside' disappear within consciousness.

[Pam Seeback]

David Quinn: This brief passage by Hui Neng describes the spiritual process to enlightenment with tremendous simplicity and depth. If you were to follow it religiously, you wouldn't need any other instruction.

Let your mind be in a state such as that of the illimitable emptiness, but do not attach it to the idea of 'vacuity'. Let it function freely. Whether you are in activity or at rest, let your mind abide nowhere. Forget the discrimination between a sage and an ordinary man. Ignore the distinction of subject and object. Let the Essence of Mind and all phenomenal objects be in a state of Thusness. Then you will be in samadhi all the time.

Is it not true that one would have to have been exposed to Buddhism or Hinduism to understand the terms 'emptiness' and 'samadhi?'

Yes, that's true. It is a teaching that is specifically tailored for advanced students. Not only do you need to have a good grasp of what "emptiness" and "samadhi" mean, but you also need a solid intellectual understanding of the illusory nature of all things.

What I like about the passage is that it brings together the various strands of the spiritual endeavour - e.g. the intellectual understanding of beginninglessness and endlessness, the primal Zen riddle of reaching enlightenment by abandoning enlightenment, the importance of ceasing to grasp at things, the transcending of all duality, etc - and integrates them all into a simple, clear description of the meditation process. It really is quite brilliant.

I am not questioning its brilliance, I agree, it does sum up the experience of enlightenment very nicely. However, since you've identified that only advanced students who have a solid intellectual understanding of the illusory nature of things can understand what it is suggesting, clearly, this passage is not the only instruction one needs. Perhaps your post should have been prefaced with "for advanced students, this is the only instruction that is needed." It may seem as if I am nitpicking, but if someone who is just beginning to think about enlightenment should read your post, they may think that since they do not understand the terms you are using that they are 'doing something wrong'.

[Pam Seeback]

jufa: If humans could worship God, what need would there be for meditation?

Worshiping God is an assumption of separation from God, something that is realized only when there is meditation (contemplation, spiritual or higher reasoning) on the impossibility of a duality of two beings, one that worships and one that is worshiped. Worshiping God and leaving out meditation on the truth of an undivided God is to go half-way on the journey of realizing that the light of thought is inseparable from what we think of as 'me' and 'you'.

Surely you do not deny the truth of one power, so what is this 'mind' of which you speak that you assign power to deceive and cause chicanery? You preach the truth of one power, but do not practice its truth. Look no further than your signature that speaks of never giving power to another, as if the one power is something that can be given and received. I know that this signature comes from the story of Samson and Delilah, but this is a story from the Old Testament when separation from God was the primary teaching. It my analysis, take it or leave it, that you do not realize that by standing firm on your signature that you are preaching the doctrine of dualism.

Perhaps this is why you did not answer this question I asked you above:

Because Wisdom is the only power at play, if there is an analysis of 'chicanery', the analysis is of wisdom is it not?

[jufa]

jufa: If humans could worship God, what need would there be for meditation?

Worshiping God is an assumption of separation from God, something that is realized only when there is meditation (contemplation, spiritual or higher reasoning) on the impossibility of a duality of two beings, one that worships and one that is worshiped.

Surely you do not deny the truth of one power, so what is this 'mind' of which you speak that you assign power to deceive and cause chicanery? You preach the truth of one power, but do not practice its truth. Look no further than your signature that speaks of never giving power to another, as if the one power is something that can be given and received. .

Perhaps this is why you did not answer this question I asked you above:

Because Wisdom is the only power at play, if there is an analysis of 'chicanery', the analysis is of wisdom is it not?

" When dealing with the human perspective, that which men speak upon is always subjective, because of the objectivity of personal bias of that which has been indoctrinated into the human mind by the prattling interpreters of idealism. All idealism is the extension of the 'sentient Id,' whose child is the human Ego". - jufa

What we have here is you have accepted second-handed knowledge concerning God to be more than metaphorical. There you find argument of separation to worship or not to be worship, and the chicanery of 'your belief', not your experiential knowledge of two powers, yet your attempt to say there is only one mind when you use a mind that is dual to express such a theory. You have attempted to incorporate this hand me down knowledge into actual Wisdom when it is hearsay. As I stated to you once before, you have discovered the reality of purpose, and mistook it to be personal for your knowledgeable path of enlightenment, and have not understood you are only a conduit expressing the Principled Substance and Patterned Essence of "the law of the Spirit of Life." Your second hand knowledge describe as brilliance will not allow you to understand your purpose of life is the same as life's invisible purpose which no metaphoric human intellect can grasp or know. Neither will believing meditation contemplation, spiritual or higher reasoning the human mind will not open up to lead flesh thinking and analysis anywhere but to its stall

You see, intellectualism cannot bring your human mind to the realization your character is defined in the definition of your thoughts and there projection into the world. That it is grace and wisdom which eliminates your chicanery human mind of its belief it has the power of creativeness, when it is you whose " brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins (ignorance), sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." So when you realize to live in Grace is to live without personal definitions, you will understand Grace and Wisdom has the only definition of you knowing your IChrist identity, and it is your Being that the Eyes of God's Soul is looking through unconditionally. This is why people you were told to 'TAKE NO THOUGHT.' To take thought does not mean not to think, but not to take possession of that which is free to fulfill all that is righteously emanating from God's heart, and through creation, inclusive of you. This is why exposure to religion opens not a path for one willingly to mount the lynching tree and die to live. This is also why one cannot give their power to anything nor anyone, the command is: "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Pam Seeback]

Be still and know. Not have knowledge of, KNOW. If you need more than that, how about 'be still and know I am God/consciousness/awareness/Self.' 'Nuf said?

[jufa]

Be still and know. Not have knowledge of, KNOW. If you need more than that, how about 'be still and know I am God/consciousness/awareness/Self.' 'Nuf said?

Or how about finding that quiet place with ones self is never about anything but Grace and Wisdom. It is always about stepping out of time, space, distance, and matter and allow the Spirit to highway through your mind, and will purge it of all the earth beliefs, placing them in a vacuum where only God is, and your human thoughts are not.

In this quiet place you are absorbed into the Body God has prepared of Himself where all levels, degrees, realms, dimensions, and spheres come together and your human thinking and focal points are eliminated. This is where infinity meets infinity. It is within this vacuum where you will finally comprehends the center of creation is also the circumference. That God is everywhere. This is the vacuum where you will be initiated and ordain, where deep becomes deep, and the Son of Man is realize by you to be the Son of God filled with the Holy Ghost, aware you are indeed in the presence of the Teacher, for it is in this vacuum where “the still small voice” whispers to you to “be still and know that I am God.”

Be still Pam. Be still Pam. Be still Pam and hear the Voice of Wisdom say to you the law of the Spirit of life" defines your obedience of "not my will, but thy will be done" to the invisible Source of your being. Allow Grace and Wisdom to Thunder in your Spirit you do not have to depend on what the world has taught you, or what 'they say' is the good or evil of matter or materialism, or that which is relative to object and subject conformity. Just be still Pam! Just be still and know "...the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Being it is stated "Everything can be reduced to a bowl of something[" and "it's called "reductive reasoning" then reductive reasoning should pinpoint that "bowl of something" giving the reductive reason to reach a concrete conclusion to stand upon. I see no such platform, no clue of deductive reasoning to verify a bowl of something exist.

You seem to have misunderstood my reply to Pam. When she claimed that "spirit or consciousness never stops expressing Itself" and "spirit or consciousness is never stagnant or waffling", these statements manifested as a kind of bowl where the whole world and its discourse was melted down to, indeed quite "reductive". And it was then presented as platform by Pam but I wondered if she was realizing it.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

There is no 'our mind', there is only consciousness thinking 'our mind' (ignorance) and consciousness realizing there is no 'our mind' (wisdom) - this is the culling of consciousness of its own belief in dualism. Then and only then does every thought of 'outside' disappear within consciousness.

And how does that oppose the stated path to wisdom as one of nutshells, going for essentials without destruction? Raising quality and lowering obstructions? Creating definitions or "bowls" from consciousness is not the whole of wisdom, is not the complete path, after all.