The value of nihilistic thinking

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Pam Seeback
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Re: The value of nihilistic thinking

Post by Pam Seeback »

jupiviv: Yes, and I would define the "ideational spirit" as the willingness to be humble before things great and small beyond our understanding or control, and through that humility feel compelled to at least honour certain ideals even if they seem to cause suffering by not pleasantly fitting into our lives. Of course, even this humility was almost universally tainted by delusions, but the material conditions of their lives forced most people to have a little bit of it. I'm not calling for such conditions to be restored or even suggesting that they are more suitable for wisdom than our conditions. But humans need suffering and existential uncertainty - the "sickness unto death" - to feel the need for truth. The uncertainty of a sceptic or new atheist about the broader reality is just an excuse to be excessively certain about things that really matter to them. Their own lives, desires and preferences acquire even greater meaning in an "indifferent" universe, which in fact cannot be partial or indifferent in relation to its constituents. By making themselves irrelevant to the cosmos, they become the gods of their own little irrelevant gaps.
But there is no existent spirit or self or subject anywhere in consciousness that can BE humble (or wise, or ignorant, etc.). It is here, in the truth of emptiness that the rubber hits the road. What it means to live of the truth of emptiness is that there is total acceptance of the impersonal nature of consciousness and of the contrast of suffering that is caused when the truth of an impersonal consciousness is rejected. Which negates any claim of indifference, au contraire, right view meeting and challenging wrong view could be said to be engagement of understanding at its peak.

Right view, wisdom: consciousness is impersonal (undivided, distinction-making)

Wrong view, ignorance: consciousness is personal (subject-object divided, subject in control of objects, subject not in control of objects).

Contrast! Ready, set, go!
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jupiviv
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Re: The value of nihilistic thinking

Post by jupiviv »

Pam Seeback wrote:But there is no existent spirit or self or subject anywhere in consciousness that can BE humble (or wise, or ignorant, etc.).
That's right, but humility - at least the kind I was referring to - is the consequence of relating ourselves to reality without being obstructed by delusions, and that is necessarily personal. The abstract category of "self" is comprised of things that appear to accompany or be physically connected to actual instances of consciousness in humans (which are the only instances we know about).
What it means to live of the truth of emptiness is that there is total acceptance of the impersonal nature of consciousness and of the contrast of suffering that is caused when the truth of an impersonal consciousness is rejected.
Emptiness is the nature of all things to begin with. It is not a separate thing that subsumes all the different things within itself, or a quality like impersonality that can distinguish reality from illusion. The unreal never is, the Real never is not.
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