Life is overrated.

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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the discourse
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Life is overrated.

Post by the discourse » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:32 am

Many people will say I'm insane for what I am about to say. Einstein said that genius sounds like insanity to those who don't understand. But I have thought about this my whole life. This is well thought out and I am sure of this conclusion now.

Life is simply, overrated. Buddha said the inherent nature of life is suffering. And mathematically, it easy to assume that, on average, for most people, the pain outweighs the gain.

So what then, causes them to cling to life? A misguided sense of nobility? Brainwashing by the news media? Fear of death, and the short, intense pain that death will usually cause? The idea of chasing after intense, temporary pleasures?

You may call me a Nihilist, but on the Genius Forums I can plainly see, you are all life-clingers. This is your persona of masculinity. You feel some sort of attachment to life. A need to build. A need to...see the future. A kind of built-up curiosity in your subconscious. In order to see the truth, you have to abandon this persona, this mask of masculinity. Not attack me for saying this. Not casting me out, for proclaming heresy on the throne of your built up identities.

You see, killing is a rather strong word. I imagine it as simply, flipping a switch, on and off. When you think of it like that, it isn't so bad. But the sensational news media, they just love cages. Trapping people in a cage of the city. Trapping people in life. And trapping those who seek to escape from life.

I have been reading some of the works of Kelly Jones. She says that to reach Nirvana, she thinks about being baked alive as a whale, and she accepts this. This is the writings of the insane, am I allowed to call the insane insane, or will I be banned for rebelling against the alpha of the tribe, just like all internet forums ran by humans of this insane planet. A sane person would not want anything to do with this world, or life itself. And insane person, would not see the problem of being baked alive. You could not argue with an insane person, they would just throw a tantrum, tell you they are right and you are wrong, and that you are bothering them, and shut the door.

It's all chemical. If you have a good feeling of chemicals, you have reached Nirvana. If you have bad chemicals, then you don't feel Nirvana at all. Nirvana has no clear definition. It is "mystical" and religious. It is kept this way so they don't embarass themself, because the truth is rather pathetic-sounding.

And what exactly IS the Absolute? I keep hearing it mentioned, but I don't know what it is. I'm not even sure that we reincarnate when we die...I'm not really sure what is absolute, I'm not even sure solipism isn't real. The Absolute seems like a word tossed around like "God", religious sounding and vaguely defined. If the "Absolute" is what's keeping you attached to this world, I suggest that you rather start rethinking your priorities.

I like physics, I like mathematics. I'm not a fan of poetry, it is exceedingly boring. I like things which are tangible. Things I can argue about. Things which are clearly defined. I don't like words like "God" which have no clear definition. People like Jed McKenna remind me of a leader of a religious cult. A part of him sounds absolutely insane. Don't underestimate this. I have talked with smart men with high IQ's, engineers and philosophers. Some of these men believe that the ark of the covenant is real, because of that fraudster Ron Wyatt. Don't believe you are above nutter, the biggest nuts are the one who never question whether or not they are crazy. If you are someone who has never questioned whether or not you are crazy.... you are probably crazy.

Now really stop and think about what I said...is it really insane to want to end all life on the planet? We are probably the only planet with sentience in the universe. Stop and think, and give me a coherent explanation of why life needs to be preserved. Please think about this deeply. Don't give me a sensational news media response like you'd see on TV.

One more thing I forgot to mention...Boredom is the cause of invention. Wilbur Wright, scientists, and other great thinkers were bored out of their minds, creating complex inventions. There is no real need for technology, it is an ego-show to feel glory and adoration. It is whorish, the need to please masses, feel validated and be worshipped as a deity. Technology is a tyranny, with increasing technology, gives tyrants more and more power, since it is the tyrants who always have the most advanced.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Life is overrated.

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:23 am

Generally, I'd say, one values where there's some investment made. And it's uncertain if that investment was always by choice necessarily. You sound yourself rather uninvested and you express amazement that other people could have developed such thing. But you seem still somewhat invested in the idea to understand and ponder this all, to have some explanation?

You prefer "Things I can argue about" and "Things which are clearly defined". What if life is simply for the most part not about such things at all? What if your own life is, for some reason, kept limited to these subsets and again, not by choice necessarily?

Does life need to be preserved? It's the tendency of life itself -- or your primal instincts on the moment they 'd be triggered (e.g. waterboarding) to preserve itself. And if possible, to expand, to conquer. But it also can cut into itself with questions, with self-limitation and even undoing itself. Or just move as far away from the instinct as possible. Again, not by choice necessarily.

But the bottom line is of course, that you cling just the same. You're calling certain things "life" right now and you cling that idea. It then might not be satisfying and this makes you doubt. Then the doubts and questioning become "life" and even make you feel there's not much left to "desire". Or some depression speaking, a mood, a chemical, but only after the act of boiling down.

Life can be defined differently and will never allow itself to be defined exactly. But it's, like so much in nature, as creative as it's destructive. The desire to grow, explore and conquer -- or just to try actively maintain where's it's at -- that's why it's called life in the first place. What else would define it? A particular shape or form?

Giving you a reason of why "life" needs to be preserved? If you keep de-investing and distancing, obviously there's little worth in there. But you'd also have no reason to destroy it or to diminish it. Perhaps life is more like a path, and you can't help to be on one. Don't mistake the entities, the politics and the babbling for life. Or the scenery. Allow the challenge of definition.

KonqueroR
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Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Life is overrated.

Post by KonqueroR » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:26 pm

the discourse wrote:Many people will say I'm insane for what I am about to say. Einstein said that genius sounds like insanity to those who don't understand. But I have thought about this my whole life. This is well thought out and I am sure of this conclusion now.

Life is simply, overrated. Buddha said the inherent nature of life is suffering. And mathematically, it easy to assume that, on average, for most people, the pain outweighs the gain.

So what then, causes them to cling to life? A misguided sense of nobility? Brainwashing by the news media? Fear of death, and the short, intense pain that death will usually cause? The idea of chasing after intense, temporary pleasures?

You may call me a Nihilist, but on the Genius Forums I can plainly see, you are all life-clingers. This is your persona of masculinity. You feel some sort of attachment to life. A need to build. A need to...see the future. A kind of built-up curiosity in your subconscious. In order to see the truth, you have to abandon this persona, this mask of masculinity. Not attack me for saying this. Not casting me out, for proclaming heresy on the throne of your built up identities.

You see, killing is a rather strong word. I imagine it as simply, flipping a switch, on and off. When you think of it like that, it isn't so bad. But the sensational news media, they just love cages. Trapping people in a cage of the city. Trapping people in life. And trapping those who seek to escape from life.

I have been reading some of the works of Kelly Jones. She says that to reach Nirvana, she thinks about being baked alive as a whale, and she accepts this. This is the writings of the insane, am I allowed to call the insane insane, or will I be banned for rebelling against the alpha of the tribe, just like all internet forums ran by humans of this insane planet. A sane person would not want anything to do with this world, or life itself. And insane person, would not see the problem of being baked alive. You could not argue with an insane person, they would just throw a tantrum, tell you they are right and you are wrong, and that you are bothering them, and shut the door.

It's all chemical. If you have a good feeling of chemicals, you have reached Nirvana. If you have bad chemicals, then you don't feel Nirvana at all. Nirvana has no clear definition. It is "mystical" and religious. It is kept this way so they don't embarass themself, because the truth is rather pathetic-sounding.

And what exactly IS the Absolute? I keep hearing it mentioned, but I don't know what it is. I'm not even sure that we reincarnate when we die...I'm not really sure what is absolute, I'm not even sure solipism isn't real. The Absolute seems like a word tossed around like "God", religious sounding and vaguely defined. If the "Absolute" is what's keeping you attached to this world, I suggest that you rather start rethinking your priorities.

I like physics, I like mathematics. I'm not a fan of poetry, it is exceedingly boring. I like things which are tangible. Things I can argue about. Things which are clearly defined. I don't like words like "God" which have no clear definition. People like Jed McKenna remind me of a leader of a religious cult. A part of him sounds absolutely insane. Don't underestimate this. I have talked with smart men with high IQ's, engineers and philosophers. Some of these men believe that the ark of the covenant is real, because of that fraudster Ron Wyatt. Don't believe you are above nutter, the biggest nuts are the one who never question whether or not they are crazy. If you are someone who has never questioned whether or not you are crazy.... you are probably crazy.

Now really stop and think about what I said...is it really insane to want to end all life on the planet? We are probably the only planet with sentience in the universe. Stop and think, and give me a coherent explanation of why life needs to be preserved. Please think about this deeply. Don't give me a sensational news media response like you'd see on TV.

One more thing I forgot to mention...Boredom is the cause of invention. Wilbur Wright, scientists, and other great thinkers were bored out of their minds, creating complex inventions. There is no real need for technology, it is an ego-show to feel glory and adoration. It is whorish, the need to please masses, feel validated and be worshipped as a deity. Technology is a tyranny, with increasing technology, gives tyrants more and more power, since it is the tyrants who always have the most advanced.
My friend, you are not insane or foolish for struggling with why we exist. We all want to know why we are here. I do not like the term "life clinger." I am the kind of person that struggles with many of your same questions, but my reptilian core is also very strong. If I did not have this, I probably would not still be around to reply to you... however I have that drive in me that wants to be the last man standing... so here we are.

Let me put it this way... Matter that wishes to exist, does exist. Matter that does not wish to exist does not exist. Suicide in a functional view, is merely changing your state of matter from alive to not alive. You basically become a rock in a sense.

However, the idea of being baked alive as a whale... this does not appeal to me as something in mind with what I mentioned above. If you are truly free from the bonds of existence and have the mind to see reality as such, you do not need to imagine at all... it just makes perfect sense.

When you speak of chemical messengers shaping our mood and reality, I find disagreement with this. While we can change our perception by messing with our cognitive function, this does not in fact change reality outside of us, only inside. So in order to state that we are only chemicals, you are basically making the assumption that external reality separate of us, is not also a part of us as well as our own internal reality. I take issue with that. If we were reduced to such chemical automatons, where one was viewed as insane for not wanting to dwell in chemical happiness bliss 24/7, I would say that we have ceased to become human.

We are very much pain, suffering, triumph and defeat just as much as we are Soma. I would choose to struggle in reality, rather than be sent off to bliss for the rest of my meatsuit's life.

I would also add that for us to speak finitely of anything really is inherently preposterous if we take a step back. It is in our nature to understand, to catalog, to devise systems and meanings for the world around us. These are merely humanistic interpretations of inventions of things that actually have no name or actual real meaning.

For any of us to force a conclusion on what is "good" or what is actual existence, is to presuppose to assume way too much from our very small, fallible, perceptions. There may be so much in front of our face that we have no idea about. Imagine if no one had eyes, we would not even understand the concept of sight.

So you ask an interesting question, why does life need to be preserved? Much of what you say, while I can relate, sounds like you want to force a conclusion so you can placate yourself.

I will repeat myself. Our limited perception of reality and the universe is too infantile in nature to forcefully conclude on anything, including the meaning of why life exists in an active state. Since you cannot disprove or prove entirely why we exist, caution is in fact the only rational and intelligent modus operandi.

From caution, you can begin to tread more lightly on what meaning really is... what existence is. My own personal thought is that we are likely much closer to bacteria in stature and planets and not actually that large in the actual state of things. Imagine if all of the entire universes were actually perceived to be just an ocean to another entity. We honestly have no idea.

If you want to end life, no one can stop you. However, tell me if this is the only live planet. How did life come from inert? Do you want to stare a rock the rest of your life and wait for it to start moving? If you want to talk about stars and supernova collisions, then I would ask you where did all that potential energy come from to beginwith.

Let's find out what is behind a black hole before start advocating cooking ourselves inside of a blue whale.

Pam Seeback
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Re: Life is overrated.

Post by Pam Seeback » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:43 am

the discourse: One more thing I forgot to mention...Boredom is the cause of invention. Wilbur Wright, scientists, and other great thinkers were bored out of their minds, creating complex inventions. There is no real need for technology, it is an ego-show to feel glory and adoration. It is whorish, the need to please masses, feel validated and be worshipped as a deity. Technology is a tyranny, with increasing technology, gives tyrants more and more power, since it is the tyrants who always have the most advanced.
You can't know the state of mind of any inventor, you can only reason such things subjectively. You are free to reason boredom of course, but perhaps it is worth considering that the fundamental nature of The Causality/Existence is restlessness, and if you concur with this reasoning, what does this mean for the idea of ending life on this planet?

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the discourse
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Re: Life is overrated.

Post by the discourse » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:58 am

You all make valid points, not much needs to be said.

The only thing is, this.
I would choose to struggle in reality, rather than be sent off to bliss for the rest of my meatsuit's life.
This is fundamentally illogical. Good is good. Good is good and this is the closest I can come to A=A.

If you don't want bliss, it may be a case of a mislabel, an experience that is not bliss but is called bliss. "A life full of bliss" can conjure nightmarish ideas of a forced saccharine insanity. Furthermore the human neurons get overburned with too much bliss, it burns them out and causes a surge of dry energy.

There are two types of bliss, feminine bliss and masculine bliss. Feminine bliss is luxury, massages, sex, love, etc. Masculine bliss is building, technology, security and action.

I would also use the word "joy" instead of bliss. A life without joy is not worth living. And I would wonder if anyone can show me otherwise.

While it is true that we have no idea if destroying all life on this planet would destroy Consciousness itself, let me ask you this. If there was a way to destroy all Consciousness in totality, then I think the most logical conclusion would be to destroy all Consciousness in totality, the majority of Consciousness is inherently suffering.

Pam Seeback
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Life is overrated.

Post by Pam Seeback » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:06 am

the discourse wrote: There are two types of bliss, feminine bliss and masculine bliss. Feminine bliss is luxury, massages, sex, love, etc. Masculine bliss is building, technology, security and action.

I would also use the word "joy" instead of bliss. A life without joy is not worth living. And I would wonder if anyone can show me otherwise.
Is it not logical to examine the reason for suffering joy and its contrast with the hope that in doing so, its cause can be uprooted?
While it is true that we have no idea if destroying all life on this planet would destroy Consciousness itself, let me ask you this. If there was a way to destroy all Consciousness in totality, then I think the most logical conclusion would be to destroy all Consciousness in totality, the majority of Consciousness is inherently suffering.
In desiring to destroy Consciousness is it possible that you are keeping alive the root cause of Consciousness?

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Life is overrated.

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:05 pm

the discourse wrote: A life without joy is not worth living. And I would wonder if anyone can show me otherwise.
Of course they can't as assigning worth is not evidence based unless you can agree on values and formula beforehand.
f there was a way to destroy all Consciousness in totality, then I think the most logical conclusion would be to destroy all Consciousness in totality, the majority of Consciousness is inherently suffering.
Life appears to continue despite the suffering. Perhaps it's even part of the process, so far, as some suffering can indeed become a regulator (eg pain says "do not!") or activator ("escape the badness or die trying"). If destroying all consciousness in totally ever would be a possibility, perhaps that's already enough that it will happen. Life as ultimate possibility follower! Just because it can.

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