Santiago Odo wrote:
I used that example exactly because it is more commonly understood. The point is to make a point about 'acid' but the larger and more difficult question, it seems to me, is to go further and to understand how it has come about. Since it seems to have come about over the course of some centuries, reversing it --- if that could happen --- is a giant project. I am reminded that once in a private conversation with David he referred to his 'life project'. It was an impressive statement for a number of reasons. But it does occur to me that to really work with ideas necessitates a commitment not only of a life but of numerous generations. Therefor, it is imperative to build understandings and establish agreements.
It seems to me that Milo and many people like him, though they have worked out a rap which, in the YouTube environment, earns them good money, do not really understand what is going on and they do not understand what the counter-movement is and should be.
It is indeed a giant project, and a solution would be complex, I simply disagree that the causes are difficult to understand for anyone with any real awareness. They are numerous and mostly obvious, probably countless of course, but not hidden.
If you're looking to establish agreements, why would you converse with Diebert for example, who self-admittedly works to turn over and challenge ideas so as to dissuade against delusions, and that's why you conversing with him is a dead-end. It also indicates you are not serious about your purpose.
Santiago Odo wrote:
That is why I referred to the propositional offering of GF, as it originally came into focus, as an attempt at a 'reform movement': a renovation of self. You have taken out of that post one smallish part and make it sound that it is common knowledge why people's relationship with their own self and their own being, in a genuine and integrated way, is deteriorating. Can you really say that you understand this?
I never implied it was common knowledge as to the causes of that 'deterioration' (If it is that, I'm too young to know really, somehow I doubt people of the past were much more often sane than they are today but if I were to guess it has probably gotten a lot worse in the last decades), people usually think too narrowly to be able to understand larger contexts or broader causes, just specifically what you said here "Marxianism defined as a deliberate and willed cultural undermining to destroy those structures identified as 'oppressive'" has become the go-to line, I've heard it a thousand times.
Do I understand it? Maybe I understand it better than you, maybe much worse, who knows really. Obviously I've always thought of posters here like you and jupiviv as seemingly displaying a lot of egotism and delusion on the regular in different ways. Egotistical people usually don't understand themselves very well at all, and thus others, because they lack authenticity, reason emotionally, and so on. They also argue for the sake of argument and not for any purpose, hence my 'challenge'. (It's funny that you called it a challenge, it was just a question.)
Then I take it that you agree with my thesis?
Within the "Worldly matters" section of the forum, I agree that it would be a good thing to 'get out of the mess we are in', an important endeavor. On Genius forums, it would be a much lesser consideration and mostly based in delusion. Hence why I wouldn't talk about it there.
I regard philosophy as being primarily about benefiting oneself in whatever way is most wise. Firstly that would be increasing wisdom for oneself, I've outlined my views on that many times recently, and secondly, if that is achieved, then doing the same for others. In my view wisdom aligns with those things which are considered "good", such as helping others come to wisdom, virtue, ending the suffering of others, forgiveness, compassion, etc, and even good social relations and 'economic' prosperity, because causality is intricate and a solution which is not holistic - one which doesn't take into account the far reaching variables - is not a solution at all.
no easy feat by any means.
For us, it is no easy feat. If the powers at be, and I don't presume to really understand governments and world governments, were to become wise, I think it would be relatively easy. Massive education reform, for example, would be a great start.
My views on regeneration and such touch on political considerations, on questions of national, ethnic and racial identity, and for Occidentals, in re-rooting ourselves in these things. That is one aspect. The other aspect, as I understand things, has to do with a revivification of essences within Christian forms and redefinitons of metaphysical forms (maps). I define 'progress' less in individualistic terms and more in forging agreements simply as a preliminary to greater understandings and activity now well out of reach. (This is why I do not at all agree with Jupi's solipsisms.)
Somehow I doubt you plan on doing anything at all about your so-called purpose. If I'm wrong I apologize, but if I had to bet right now, you are not attempting to make any difference in the grand scheme of things. Posting on genius forums certainly is not making waves.
Yes of course, 'regeneration' and such would require a holistic solution which obviously includes politics, and I agree, a revivification of what are 'Christian values'.
I simply don't think you are much of a realist. How do you plan to forge agreements or make any progress by posting on GF, with Jupiviv who you've just said you believe is solipsistic, or Diebert who wants to constantly challenge and turn over ideas? Try for the next five decades and you'll end up repeating yourself here as you have for years.
Again, my opinion of most people is that they are so far removed from reality they end up being the equivalent of mad children, filled with all kinds of vice, ignorant, unaware, egotistical, arrogant, unable to control themselves, inauthentic, lacking introspection, and so on. It may be an even more difficult task than you recognize, as I notice even people here tend to niavely lend too much credit to people.
It's very rare to come across a single person that recognizes the value of solution based thinking. As opposed to the common case of somehow being unable to comprehend the most obvious realities, such as that complaining and trolling with such a narrow mindset isn't a solution to anything, like Milo does for example.
Even more rare is someone who recognizes that this 'mess' isn't solved by praying, isn't solved by complaining, isn't solved by protesting, isn't solved by trolling, isn't solved in the Facebook comment section, etc, but requires a focus first on improving one's own wisdom so that they are even capable of having an idea of what a good outcome would look like, and then on holistic solution based thinking, grand ideas and implementation.