Why do people have the desire to talk?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
JohnJAu
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Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

Post by JohnJAu » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:58 pm

Pam Seeback wrote: absolute reality and conventional reality (names) are not separate realities which means the name 'family', ''son, 'grandson' do exist when they are being spoken by the absolute self.
All those things exist in the same way as they did when you were seventeen, (which seemed like very much so) the only difference is the degree to which one is egotistical/drawn in by desire, as is pointed out in that tao te ching verse.
Pam Seeback wrote: Give up the household life if you believe you must do so in order to realize absolute/eternal self, I did not do so.
It is not so much that one need give up the household life. It's that, in my view, meditation, contemplation, and the development of good habits, such as concentration, are all "difficult", great tasks, and ought to be considered priority, even as urgent.

The reason is because of the view that life is eternal, and continuing from there, because of the possibility of the view that causality alone dictates whether one is fortunate enough to be exposed to wisdom or follow the way. Perhaps it is rare and may not occur again for an incomprehensible amount of time. As well as the possibility that ones karma will dictate ones future existence. In a sense it is by pure luck 'one seemingly finds oneself' engaging in the pursuit of enlightenment.

"Be mindful of the passing of time, and engage yourself in zazen, as though you are saving your head from fire."
-Dogen

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it."
-Jesus
Pam Seeback wrote:The absolute self feeds the child unconditionally, with full attention, no wandering mind thinking of other things it might rather be doing
If this is the case for you, that's great. Perhaps it is even all that is necessary.
Pam Seeback wrote:Where things get muddled and mucked up is when observation happens in ignorance
It's my understanding that one is allured by the things of the world and associated desire/lust/temptation. Being drawn into that is to risk being caught up in the rush of that worldly river, which naturally works to drown out contemplation/insight via over stimulation, perpetuated by the fears of the ego. The world being the domain of 'the devil'/mara the deceiver. That this is somewhat like a trap, the cycle of samsara, and can keep one ensnared life after life.

"not to be discovered is any first beginning of beings, who, obstructed by ignorance, and
ensnared by craving, are hurrying and hastening through this round of rebirths."
-Buddha



“The wise man knows that it is better to sit on the banks of a remote mountain stream than to be emperor of the whole world.”
― Zhuangzi

"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”


Unfortunately, "the path into light seems dark", it leaves one entirely alone, floating in the void. To a worldly being upon first encounters, it would appear as hell.

"This knowledge of Truth
turns an eloquent, wise and active man
mute, empty and inert.
Lovers of the world therefore shun it."
-Ashtavakra

jufa
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Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

Post by jufa » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:35 am

Why do people have the desire to talk?

Been reading as this conversation has continued, and as of yet I find the answer to the question in the above quote has eluded all who has participated. What I have discovered, in many words, truth as correctness, in this conversation has been morphed into truth as a certainty with no doubt even though certainty is impossible to achieve because of individual precepts and POV. Yet by riding the backs of other people, and appropriating their experience in religion and philosophy, not to mention psychology, truth got assimilated, in writings, into Buddhism, Christian, and the karmic law frameworks, and has been recast in the light of certainty of salvation.

People have the desire to talk to stabilize, to themselves, the text of their beliefs from what they have read and ego knowledge, with some experiential revelations, which are superficial, because all within the text of their beliefs and ego knowledge is primordial to time and therefore rides the circle of karmic law.

Truth as correctness cannot morph into truth as certain for those born into time, for the rotation of the circle of time void anything that is not of the circle. Truth is beyond the circle.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

Pam Seeback
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Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

Post by Pam Seeback » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:31 am

jufa: Been reading as this conversation has continued, and as of yet I find the answer to the question in the above quote has eluded all who has participated. What I have discovered, in many words, truth as correctness, in this conversation has been morphed into truth as a certainty with no doubt even though certainty is impossible to achieve because of individual precepts and POV.
The individual viewpoint is the illusion. Using quotes to support this truth is not a breach of truth telling.
Yet by riding the backs of other people, and appropriating their experience in religion and philosophy, not to mention psychology, truth got assimilated, in writings, into Buddhism, Christian, and the karmic law frameworks, and has been recast in the light of certainty of salvation.
There are no other people whose backs can be ridden. There is only life-reasoning-itself, even when that reasoning demonstrates an ignorance of this truth, an ignorance that includes belief in (attachment to) karmic law.
People have the desire to talk to stabilize, to themselves, the text of their beliefs from what they have read and ego knowledge, with some experiential revelations, which are superficial, because all within the text of their beliefs and ego knowledge is primordial to time and therefore rides the circle of karmic law.
People attempting to stabilize themselves may appear to be what is happening when talking is happening, but is it not true that it is not the conventional concept of people that desires to talk, but life itself? Is not life the cause of everything?

Is it not possible that when realization of 'only the causality' happens, the end of belief in instability also happens?
Truth as correctness cannot morph into truth as certain for those born into time, for the rotation of the circle of time void anything that is not of the circle. Truth is beyond the circle.
To reinforce what I said above, using quotes to support the truth of the causality as cause -- not the individual, not 'people born into the rotating circle of time' -- is not a hindrance, the key concept here being 'support'.

jufa
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Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

Post by jufa » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:41 am

The individual viewpoint is the illusion. Using quotes to support this truth is not a breach of truth telling.
If this is the truth, then the individual POV stating the quote is also an illusion, down to the statement of a breach.
There are no other people whose backs can be ridden. There is only life-reasoning-itself, even when that reasoning demonstrates an ignorance of this truth, an ignorance that includes belief in (attachment to) karmic law.
The beautiful thing about truth is it never stagnate, it is a continuous expansion. So when one states there are no other people whose backs can be ridden, in this topic, it shows the confusion of trying to establish an illusion as a mirage, and a mirage as a truth when one states the opening quote herein. Karmic law did not exist when there as not law only divine Self. Karmic law then only came to be with duplication by the cosmic mind consciousness subception. The reality of karma is if it did not exist, there would be no way for one to realize they have been duped, and dominated by a false consciousness which cannot exist with divine Spirit, which of course is of divine Soul.

No one living in the domain of cosmic conscious mind can stabilize anything for every thought is in harmony with itself. This means an individual is stabilized in the unstable fragments which keeps that individual fed with selfishness.

Pam Seeback
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Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

Post by Pam Seeback » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:21 am

The quotes used are not ultimately of an individual mind or POV. All things reside, to use a Christian metaphor, in the eternal and infinite Godhead, the Causality.

Karmic law falls into the belief system of ignorance of the infinite causality. Which can also be turned around to say the infinite causality In ignorance of itself.

Direct question:

Are you postulating a separation between God's thoughts and man's thoughts? If so, please provide your logic for such a separation.

Pam Seeback
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Re: Why do people have the desire to talk?

Post by Pam Seeback » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:30 am

If consciousness were to realize fully with no doubts that it is impossible for God or the causality to be unstable, it would cease believing in instability, which is the same thing as ceasing to believe in an individual mind or individual consciousness.

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