Statement about Solway and Trump

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Pam Seeback
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Pam Seeback »

jupiviv: Trump is God, therefore his mind is as formless as God's. Try to grasp it, as Ryan does, and you'll end up with Christendom. The only valid course of action is to love Trump with all your heart and mind, instead of trying to make sense of what he says. What a man loves, he is.
I cannot say what Trump is, nor can you, nor can anyone else. IS implies absolute. Which means the 'making sense' of Trump, as is the making sense of any object 'plucked' from the world of relativity is a circular, ever-repeating, inconclusive activity -- is this not the suffering of man in a nutshell?

Reasoning's hunt to reveal the absolute is its delusion exposed. Which leaves the enlightened reasoning mind two options: 1. work at ending the delusion or 2. accept the delusion.
Kevin Solway
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

jimhaz wrote:You might get a few years where they become less demanding, but it will be back to the norm soon enough. It's an outcome of the emancipation of women.
Very probably, in which case something will need to be done soon.

Are you not also acting like a typical politician – you are being an opportunist, selling some of your values for a perceived end result. Or is it that you only have one value - that of "truth".


Ultimately I'm only interested in truth, and the freedom to express it.
It would be true to say that here is truth is the emergent property of an internet site like Briebart or a leftie site, and that overall vibe and attitude have a comparable ‘emotional truth value’ as to what is actually written. Group behaviour ensues. Of the people you have sufficient agreement with, what is that vibe to you?
I'm not sure I understand your question. I'm not interested in "emotional truth value" or any group behaviours. I'm only interested in truth, and the expression of truth. I don't experience a "vibe" with people who agree with me, probably because I don't experience enough people who agree with me. I might agree with them on some matters, but not others.

Censuring of free thought even within academia, due to an obsessive attachment to equality or just to shut down ideas they don’t like.
I consider this to be the main problem, for now.

Have you written about them in any non-argumentative setting elsewhere?
I honestly can't remember. I've probably written about it in the general sense somewhere in Poison for the Heart.

P.S. I once wrote a series of about 14 essays I posted around the university, but I don't have them any more. It was in the days before computers were everywhere.

What do you expect the Trump regime to do in terms of societal change?
I expect it to do very little. It's a huge problem for anyone to have to deal with.

I hope that under the Trump regime people will feel more free to speak their mind.

Will men’s work places change, will women be allowed to be aggressive, will women be turned off academia… things like that.
I expect there to gradually be more separation between men and women. For example, in the future there will probably be separate male and female universities.

If the anti-SJWs win, by what means will that occur?
By means of common-sense, and by people doing what they want.

If racial and/or domestic violence results, is that OK?
If it is unavoidable, I suppose it would be okay. Truth is the priority. We shouldn't sacrifice truth to protect people's feelings.

If Trump acts like a dictator, is that OK?
If he does things that are too foolish, then that will be a problem.
Pam Seeback
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dan Rowden wrote:Wisdom in hindsight.
He's [Trump] a businessman. That's all.
Anita Sarkeesian is a businesswoman. That's all.
No, Trump is not a businessman, thats all, nor is Anita Sarkeesian is a businesswoman, that's all. Trump and Anita Sarkeesian are not things and a thing is never the all. Silly nitpicking woman. :-)
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Pam Seeback »

Kevin: I'm not sure I understand your question. I'm not interested in "emotional truth value" or any group behaviours. I'm only interested in truth, and the expression of truth. I don't experience a "vibe" with people who agree with me, probably because I don't experience enough people who agree with me. I might agree with them on some matters, but not others.
Truth is dependent on agreement?
Kevin Solway
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

Pam Seeback wrote:
Kevin: I'm not sure I understand your question. I'm not interested in "emotional truth value" or any group behaviours. I'm only interested in truth, and the expression of truth. I don't experience a "vibe" with people who agree with me, probably because I don't experience enough people who agree with me. I might agree with them on some matters, but not others.
Truth is dependent on agreement?
I believe JimHaz was talking about "emotional truth value" and "vibe". I don't believe these things have anything to do with truth, but probably have something to do with agreement.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Dan Rowden »

I think perhaps this all bolls down to a difference in opinion of how to deal with the growing influence of Feminism and the crazy elements of the Social Justice Movement.

It almost seems like a revolution v evolution debate which history has already shown, without fail, to favour evolution.
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Eric Schiedler
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Eric Schiedler »

Kevin Solway wrote:He's not a Demon.
As the one who first mentioned the concept of “demon” in this thread, I wish to add that by no means did I mean that Trump is an actual demon or contains something that is a demon, but that metaphorically, he represents the desires of others. This is my observation based on talking to those (both in support and opposing Trump) who live in the US and by paying particular attention to the expression of their desires.

I do believe that Trump himself is quite ordinary, despite being exceptionally talented in a specific, rhetorical skill. But that’s not how local voters discuss him. They have irrational expectations of him, both positive and negative, that become a symbol that is anthropomorphic in form.
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jupiviv
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by jupiviv »

Kevin Solway wrote:I don't believe that Trump is in any way a remedy for the SJWs, but I do believe he is a hindrance to them, and that his presidency gives time for the anti-SJWs to rally and organize themselves, and for the wind to naturally go out of the sails of the SJWs.
SJWs will go away when they aren't paid anymore. There is no evidence that Trump wants to dismantle or even improve the industries which pay them. Both Milo and his "enemies" depend upon a media industry which profits out of the loyalty of very deluded people and the patronage of corporations and governments. That industry recruits skilled labour from a turgid and corrupt academia, which itself relies upon similar kinds of patronage, as well as the willingness of gullible youths and their parents to pay exorbitant fees for worthless education/training.
Since you mentioned Milo, I have to ask - why the support for Milo of all people?
I support all people who speak the truth - insofar as they speak the truth. Milo isn't right about everything, but I don't know anyone who is perfect.
I don't know anyone who isn't imperfect when it comes to speaking truth, but that doesn't stop you from opposing certain groups and people.
And since I believe Milo would be good at debating SJWs, I would support him for that role, regardless of how much he respects truth for its own sake.
That's reasonable, but I don't see why being good at debating SJWs is a reason to assume that someone as vain and opportunistic as Milo values truth for its own sake. Based on what I've heard of his views about anything *beyond* his core expertise (entertaining critique of cultural rara aves), he says nothing which would indicate that he is a good philosopher, or even a "complex person" for that matter.
In my experience those who supported Trump in the election know full well that Trump is a narcissist and a liar.
The majority of Trump supporters don't believe that he is a narcissist and a liar, or they wouldn't support him.

Trump's supporters may *acknowledge* that he has those faults to a degree, but they also believe they are mild compared to the faults of the Democrats/liberals, and in any case are outweighed by his virtues. Some of them even believe that those faults are virtues! On that note, they actually exaggerate his virtues and even *invent* virtues or virtuous motives when critiquing his words and actions. Of course, there are notable exceptions. But it is misleading and obtuse to refer to these latter as "those who supported Trump".
Being "neutral" or "apolitical" doesn't work in the real world.
Making political choices based on minimax evaluations of ill-formed ideas and arguments expressed during speeches or debates doesn't work in the real world. Voter turnout in the last US election was ~58% - a 20-year low. There is no reason to assume that the neutrality of all those millions of people was unrealistic and uninformed, or caused by laziness perhaps. If anything it is the idea that a trivial action like voting can significantly influence the behaviour of a massive and complex system, externally dependent upon similar systems, which is unrealistic, uninformed and lazy.
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Russell Parr
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Russell Parr »

jupiviv wrote:
In my experience those who supported Trump in the election know full well that Trump is a narcissist and a liar.
The majority of Trump supporters don't believe that he is a narcissist and a liar, or they wouldn't support him.

Trump's supporters may *acknowledge* that he has those faults to a degree, but they also believe they are mild compared to the faults of the Democrats/liberals, and in any case are outweighed by his virtues. Some of them even believe that those faults are virtues! On that note, they actually exaggerate his virtues and even *invent* virtues or virtuous motives when critiquing his words and actions. Of course, there are notable exceptions. But it is misleading and obtuse to refer to these latter as "those who supported Trump".
True enough. I do have this to add:

Many of those who voted for Trump do not necessarily support Trump the man, but the energy he represents, which is a counterbalance, an antithesis to the overall direction this country is heading towards. A lot of people are cheering Trump on simply because he opposes the corruption and PCism. Those that go further and project virtues into his image where there are none are confused and/or are irrational extremists.
Being "neutral" or "apolitical" doesn't work in the real world.
Making political choices based on minimax evaluations of ill-formed ideas and arguments expressed during speeches or debates doesn't work in the real world. Voter turnout in the last US election was ~58% - a 20-year low. There is no reason to assume that the neutrality of all those millions of people was unrealistic and uninformed, or caused by laziness perhaps. If anything it is the idea that a trivial action like voting can significantly influence the behaviour of a massive and complex system, externally dependent upon similar systems, which is unrealistic, uninformed and lazy.
After Bush and Obama, us millennials have all but given up on US government. It's all rigged anyway. That became abundantly clear after Bernie lost to Hillary. Trump was purposely put forward as the opposition because the establishment just knew he stood no chance. Then the wikileaks email scandal happened. By then, it was too late. All they had left was the promotion of the plethora of fake poll results to try and dissuade all the would be Trump voters, which clearly backfired and only makes them look worse.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

jupiviv wrote:Based on what I've heard of his views about anything *beyond* his core expertise (entertaining critique of cultural rara aves), he says nothing which would indicate that he is a good philosopher, or even a "complex person" for that matter.
Milo is very widely read, and is especially well read with regard to people like Oscar Wilde and Camille Paglia. I believe he tries to emulate Oscar Wilde in many respects, in which case his shallowness is a facade. I've seen Milo give deeply heartfelt speeches regarding the corruption of journalism and of education, and that convinces me, at least, that he is a man of character.
The majority of Trump supporters don't believe that he is a narcissist and a liar, or they wouldn't support him.
When you feel you have to vote for the lesser of two evils, then you can vote for someone you believe is a narcissist and liar, because the alternative would be even worse.

On that note, they actually exaggerate his virtues and even *invent* virtues or virtuous motives when critiquing his words and actions.
Yes, I agree that there are many like this. It's like people reading meaning into a song that doesn't have any.

Being "neutral" or "apolitical" doesn't work in the real world.
Making political choices based on minimax evaluations of ill-formed ideas and arguments expressed during speeches or debates doesn't work in the real world.
It's certainly groping in the dark. However, choosing not to vote in an election can directly result in someone being elected because you didn't vote against them. It's a devlish position to be in.
Voter turnout in the last US election was ~58% - a 20-year low. There is no reason to assume that the neutrality of all those millions of people was unrealistic and uninformed, or caused by laziness perhaps. If anything it is the idea that a trivial action like voting can significantly influence the behaviour of a massive and complex system, externally dependent upon similar systems, which is unrealistic, uninformed and lazy.
I'm sympathetic to that view. I don't vote in every election even though it is compulsory to vote in Australia. But there are rare times when a trivial action like voting, or not voting, can conceivably influence the behaviour of a massive and complex system, through a confluence of various other factors. This past election in the U.S may have been one of those times, or maybe not. We may never know for sure.
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jupiviv
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by jupiviv »

Kevin Solway wrote:Milo is very widely read, and is especially well read with regard to people like Oscar Wilde and Camille Paglia. I believe he tries to emulate Oscar Wilde in many respects, in which case his shallowness is a facade. I've seen Milo give deeply heartfelt speeches regarding the corruption of journalism and of education, and that convinces me, at least, that he is a man of character.
The economics of the media industry is the real problem. If journalists received patronage from people interested *only* in the truth, they would be much more interested in telling the truth (regardless of personal ideology or affiliation) than they are now.

Also, competition in the industry is determined by the ability to pander to certain political viewpoints and the capacity to *produce* what Kierkegaard termed "the interesting", i.e., gossip and vulgar curiosity. When employment depends upon the opposite skill set, journalists will act accordingly. Those who don't won't be employed.

Then there's the elephant in the room - the sheer *number* of journalists. If demand>supply, journalists would be more valuable and therefore less dispensable. It might not be as necessary for them to gain the edge over one another through pandering and spicing up facts with personal perspectives. They might also be allowed to do their actual job more often, rather than directly or indirectly being forced to stick to a certain narrative. In fact, with the global economy on the brink of another recession/depression with no exit in sight, this will probably happen naturally anyway. Nobody will go into debt or at least waste time for journalism degrees unless they are sure they have what it takes to succeed.

A very common salesman's trick, played by journalists and politicians alike, is to politicise and indeed romanticise the above mentioned problems. As if political affiliations determine truthfulness or the incentive to stick to predetermined avenues of inquiry and interpretation.

The way to create journalism which is genuinely free from third-party influence, and genuinely focussed on bare facts, is through *local* initiatives by large groups of interested people who can meet each other regularly, and not big money patrons whether individual, corporate or government. Such initiatives would probably feature an archive of purely fact-based news updated by a small number of OTC contracted employees who are paid because they understand exactly what they are supposed to do. There might be opinion pieces, but they would be by familiar and accessible co-founders rather than random "interesting" people.

That sort of venture would have no reason to contract ad hoc celebrity commentators like Milo or Sarkeesian, who seek unfair profits from a large viewer or reader base adding clicks/views to the cash counter of advertisements, then ride on the resulting portfolio to a cushy book deal, think tank position or contract with a media conglomerate. Ad hoc celebrity commentators serve the same purpose as ad hoc celebrity faces, tits or asses, and a journalistic venture funded by people who want to inform themselves about world events would not share that purpose with commercial blogs, vlogs or websites.

Has Milo ever talked about any of the things I said above? Not as far as I know. In fact, he has replicated the big money patron system by creating a brand/personality cult around himself and then using it to draw the fans to the medium to big-size corporations that hire him, host videos about him or publish his books. For Milo, as for mainstream journalists, the faults of bad journalism boil down to *enigmatic* causes like religion, politics and ideology, which for him is leftist/fringe leftist. The "interesting" in other words, which both Milo and mainstream journalists profit from by duelling it for the entertainment of others.

Anyway, it appears I have said much more than I initially wanted to say about Milo or journalism, so I'll say no more.
When you feel you have to vote for the lesser of two evils, then you can vote for someone you believe is a narcissist and liar, because the alternative would be even worse.
But a choice between two evils is zero sum because, if such a choice is repeatedly made by over 50% of the population for decades or even centuries, then they and their successors need only be marginally less evil than the ones who aren't chosen. Given human nature, the trend would be a steadily decreasing rather than increasing LCD of goodness, as evinced by the choices featured in the last few US elections.

Besides, Trump may not prove to be more capable of improving the US than Hillary, even if more willing.
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David Quinn
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

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Kevin Solway wrote:
David Quinn wrote:[Tony Abbott’s] lying was truly pathological.
Sorry, but I don't trust your psychological diagnoses. I don't believe you have sufficient knowledge to be able to make them.
I’m not asking you to trust them. I just put them out there and people can do whatever they want with them.

In any case, I’m not sure why you would think my comment here would be controversial. Abbott’s lying was so notorious and pervasive that even he ended up having to admit that the words coming out of his mouth couldn’t be trusted, that only his pre-prepared written statements should be taken seriously.

Kevin Solway wrote:
David Quinn wrote:there is really no such thing as the mainstream media.
Nonsense. Try and get into a Whitehouse press conference and you'll find out who the mainstream media is.
On that basis, Breitbart is now part of the mainstream.

Having access to press conferences is surely a very superficial way of judging the matter. That’s more to do with social status and prestige. Real journalism involves spending time and money on proper research and exposing what is going on behind the scenes. Anyone can do this, provided they have the time and money. It is not exclusively confined to either the mainstream or alternative medias. It is political bias to suggest otherwise.

Kevin Solway wrote:
David Quinn wrote:For every Breitbart article you post about a computer crashing, I can post one from the mainstream media about a computer crashing too.
Why on earth would you think of doing such a thing? I'm not trying to prove that Breitbart is more truthful than the mainstream media, so why would you try to prove that the mainstream media is equally truthful to Breitbart by using a nonsensical method? I can't make any sense of what you are saying.
I’m addressing your view that the mainstream media hardly ever expresses the truth, using your own criteria of what constitutes a truthful article in the process. I am demonstrating that your view on the mainstream media is incompatible with your view on what constitutes a truthful article.

Kevin Solway wrote:If it was Dan's point that truth is relative, and that all people and all outlets speak the truth equally, then he was simply wrong.
I believe Dan was pointing to a double standard in your approach to these matters, but I’m sure he can clarify this if he wants to.

Kevin Solway wrote:Ultimately I'm only interested in truth, and the freedom to express it.
A freedom that we already have. All of us.
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David Quinn
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

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jupiviv wrote: The way to create journalism which is genuinely free from third-party influence, and genuinely focussed on bare facts, is through *local* initiatives by large groups of interested people who can meet each other regularly, and not big money patrons whether individual, corporate or government.
I can't see this ever getting off the ground, as most people are too busy with their lives and don't have the time or energy to get personally involved in that kind of activism.

The biggest issue currently facing journalism is dwindling sales and resources, which makes proper investigative reporting too prohibitively expensive for most outlets. Unfortunately, we are living in an age where lazy, sensationalist, click-bait reporting is more lucrative than serious journalism. A story cobbled together in 5 minutes cut and pasted from other media outlets can provide more clicks and thus more revenue than an investigative article which has taken three months of painstaking work to put together. Through sheer economics, editors are being forced to focus almost exclusively on the click-bait stuff.

It is the main reason why I began subscribing to the New York Times back in December. I wanted to do my bit to financially support the kind of serious journalism that will put a handbrake on Trump's most destructive actions. If serious journalism is going to survive in the future, then digital subscription by civic-minded readers will probably be the way to go.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

David Quinn wrote: I’m not sure why you would think my comment here would be controversial.


I'm not disputing that a politician lies. I'm disputing whether you are qualified to determine whether such lying is "pathological".

The mainstream media is constantly diagnosing their opponents with mental illnesses. It is backfiring on them.
Kevin Solway wrote:
David Quinn wrote:there is really no such thing as the mainstream media.
Nonsense. Try and get into a Whitehouse press conference and you'll find out who the mainstream media is.
On that basis, Breitbart is now part of the mainstream.
It doesn't logically follow that if a person is at a Whitehouse press conference that they are part of the mainstream media.

Lauren Southern is not part of the mainstream media, yet she was at a Whitehouse press conference, and it was obvious to her who the mainstream media were: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmWzFZiVQ7I

I’m addressing your view that the mainstream media hardly ever expresses the truth, using your own criteria of what constitutes a truthful article in the process.
Well I've done the experiment, and the mainstream media fails the truth test - nearly every time, and on every issue that matters. I'm not trying to convince you. You have to make your own judgement.

Kevin Solway wrote:Ultimately I'm only interested in truth, and the freedom to express it.
A freedom that we already have. All of us.
We don't have the freedom to express truth when social media sites and governments are implementing so-called "hate speech" rules, which prevent you from saying anything they don't agree with. And it can't be said that a person has freedom to speak the truth when they can lose their job for speaking the truth.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

jupiviv wrote:Has Milo ever talked about any of the things
In Milo's view honesty in journalism is simply a matter of morality. And if you want it you're going to have to pay for it.
A choice between two evils is zero sum because, if such a choice is repeatedly made by over 50% of the population for decades or even centuries, then they and their successors need only be marginally less evil than the ones who aren't chosen. Given human nature, the trend would be a steadily decreasing rather than increasing LCD of goodness, as evinced by the choices featured in the last few US elections.
That could well be true. It would be refreshing if an election were held where not a single person turned out to vote, because none of the candidates were deserving of their vote. That might be why we have compulsory voting in Australia - to prevent that from happening - or to prevent someone from winning an election based on the support of 0.0001% of the population.
Besides, Trump may not prove to be more capable of improving the US than Hillary, even if more willing.
Yes, as you say, we are in the dark on so many issues, and even if we were fully informed we can still make the wrong choice.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

David Quinn wrote:serious journalism that will put a handbrake on Trump's most destructive actions.
. . . but not serious journalism that will put a handbrake on the authoritarian left and the SJWs?

Serious journalism is supposed to report the truth. It's not meant to "put the brakes" on someone.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by David Quinn »

Kevin Solway wrote:
David Quinn wrote: I’m not sure why you would think my comment here would be controversial.

I'm not disputing that a politician lies. I'm disputing whether you are qualified to determine whether such lying is "pathological".
I am an insightful thinker with a large amount of wisdom. Isn't that qualification enough?

Another wise man once said, “By their fruits you shall know them”.

Kevin Solway wrote:The mainstream media is constantly diagnosing their opponents with mental illnesses. It is backfiring on them.
They should certainly refrain from doing that.

Kevin Solway wrote:Lauren Southern is not part of the mainstream media, yet she was at a Whitehouse press conference, and it was obvious to her who the mainstream media were: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmWzFZiVQ7I
My god, that was painful. How do you stand watching those videos?

I’m trying to imagine the degree of radicalization that has to take place in someone’s brain for them to find such an irritating woman informative and entertaining. It’s a challenge, I can tell you.

Having said that, I agree with her that political reporters tend to form cliques and their questions tend to be uninspired. But that’s hardly news, is it? What did she expect?

Kevin Solway wrote:
David Quinn wrote:
Kevin Solway wrote:Ultimately I'm only interested in truth, and the freedom to express it.
A freedom that we already have. All of us.
We don't have the freedom to express truth when social media sites and governments are implementing so-called "hate speech" rules, which prevent you from saying anything they don't agree with.
Like calling people niggers or something?

Kevin Solway wrote: And it can't be said that a person has freedom to speak the truth when they can lose their job for speaking the truth.
Yes, that is certainly a problem, but one that isn’t confined to the realm of feminism and political correctness. For example, every day there are whistleblowers who lose their jobs for speaking the truth against their employers. In an ideal world, no one would face any negative consequences for speaking the truth.

Kevin Solway wrote:
David Quinn wrote:serious journalism that will put a handbrake on Trump's most destructive actions.
. . . but not serious journalism that will put a handbrake on the authoritarian left and the SJWs?

Well, I don’t have all that much money to splash around! I have to prioritize. And I know that there are people such as yourself who are sacrificing themselves for the sake of fighting the authoritarian left.

Kevin Solway wrote:Serious journalism is supposed to report the truth. It's not meant to "put the brakes" on someone.
Putting the brakes on those who are deceptive and want to harm the community is part and parcel of reporting the truth. Serious journalism constitutes a vital part of the checks and balances in a democracy. A democracy cannot function without it.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Dan Rowden »

This is Brietbart, a 'news' service supposedly superior to the mainstream media [whatever that is].

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -criminal/

You want to tell me this is more truthful 'news' than the MSM? Fuck off. Literally, fuck off.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Dan Rowden »

It seems to me that Trump's anti-establishment rhetoric, and cleverly developed persona around it, has seduced all sorts of people, including those you would imagine to be too wise to fall for it. Clearly, anyone with an issue with the 'establishment' - be it ideological, trivial or maybe of certain specific substance - has decided Trump is speaking to and for them, despite the obvious idiocy of that.

It's as though Trump represents a Lotto ticket they've decided to invest in, and if they win, they'll win big because their specific 'issue' with the establishment will be magically resolved. The problem is that they've invested their entire house on the outcome, and not merely for themselves, but for everyone else. What's disturbing is that they have no sense of that. What's perhaps more disturbing is that some may sense it but don't care.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

David Quinn wrote:They should certainly refrain from doing that.
So you are qualified to diagnose your opponents with mental illnesses, but the mainstream media aren't?

Like calling people niggers or something?
You are about twenty years behind the times.

Kevin Solway wrote:
Serious journalism is supposed to report the truth. It's not meant to "put the brakes" on someone.
Putting the brakes on those who are deceptive and want to harm the community is part and parcel of reporting the truth. Serious journalism constitutes a vital part of the checks and balances in a democracy. A democracy cannot function without it.
I think your "serious journalism" is a kangaroo court whose sole purpose is to put people on trial so they can be found guilty. It doesn't have anything to do with truth.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Glostik91 »

David Quinn wrote: What about an attack on an overseas Trump property? Will that qualify (in Trump’s mind) as an attack on the US? I think we all know the answer to that, don't we?

To a terrorist, those big gold TRUMP letterings must be awfully tempting....
I imagine it would, but what concerns me more is what Trump will be able to get away with if an attack occurs in the US during his presidency, a large attack, something along the lines of 911, the Reichstag, or Pearl Harbor. There was very little chance the US would have justified pulling off a full scale invasion and occupation of Iraq without 911. Hell, most of the people I spoke with back then thought the invasion of Iraq was a part of the War on Terror. What a joke.
Well, I certainly see it. To my mind, Trump’s reign is guaranteed to end in disaster. It is going to be far worse than Bush, regardless of whether there is a terrorist attack or not. You can put your house on it.

It all comes down to psychology, and in this regard Bush differs immensely from Trump. Bush was vacuous, a figurehead, a puppet who was easily controlled by the power-brokers lurking behind the scenes. He didn’t have any grand plans to impose himself on the world. He was passive. He was just there, filling up space.

Trump is a completely different animal. He is aggressive, unstable, vindictive, megalomaniac, self-absorbed, addicted to being the centre of attention. He has shown repeatedly throughout his life that when he gets cornered, when people begin to put real pressure on him, he lashes out. He becomes vengeful, erratic and reckless. So what is going to happen when the pressures of office start to bear down on him, when his popularity starts to dwindle, when his own fan base begins to turn on him? How do you think he will respond?

At the moment, he is in the midst of a tremendous high. He is reveling in the bliss of being in the centre of the world’s attention. He hasn’t had to face any real crises yet or make any hard decisions. That is all yet to come. And when it happens, watch out! That is when it will all kick off. He will bungle things in his usual fashion and the blind devotion that has been lavished upon him by his personality cult will begin to dissipate. Anyone who has ever been around addicts when their drugs are withdrawn from them will know how violent and irrational they can be. When Trumps’s ascendancy reaches its end and begins to slide back down, he is not going to react well. He will much rather tear the whole place down than surrender meekly. And that is when he will truly start to become dangerous.

It's all there in his mind, ticking away. Only a trigger is needed to set it off.

I believe it is very unwise to think of Trump as a “cleansing masculine energy". I’m thinking about the masculine part, in particular. Trump might end up being a cleansing agent of sorts, but masculine he will never be. Not in any deeper sense.

While masculinity is usually associated with things like conquest, aggression, single-mindedness, purposefulness (which we find in Trump), it is also linked with consciousness, soul, conscience, integrity, structured thought, insight (which are almost entirely absent in Trump). So at best, what we have here is a very distorted form of masculinity. So distorted, in fact, that it would be more accurate to call it an extreme form of femininity.

His constant war on truth is a good example. Day after day, Trump is blatantly disregarding facts, making unsubstantiated claims, engaging in conspiracy theories, rejecting scientific theorizing and other forms of expertise, and generally covering us all with mountains of bullshit. Now in some people’s eyes, this could be considered a form of masculinity. It could be argued that Trump is so masculine that he doesn’t even submit to the dictates of truth. You can see how Trump's mind works in this regard: only suckers allow themselves to be tied to truth, or knowledge, or facts, or laws, or norms, and suckers are there to be taken advantage of. He knows that most people are deeply attached to these things and he knows how to use that attachment against them - to unsettle them, to create confusion in their minds, to have them chasing shadows. And while all this is happening, Trump is happily riding off to the next town with all of their money in his pocket. It is a classic con trick that he has been pulling his whole life.

Importantly, Trump’s conquest over truth doesn’t come from a heightening of his consciousness. He isn’t intensifying the masculine spirit in an effort to dissolve all duality. Rather, his rejection of truth comes from the opposite direction, from a diminishing of consciousness. It is the same dynamic by which women reject the concept of truth.

Trump often says that he likes to be unpredictable, which mirrors the common womanly desire to be enigmatic. If you add to this, Trump’s extreme vanity and obsession with his self-image, together with his speech patterns which can only be described as henids and usually delivered in a campy, effeminate fashion, then what we are looking at is not a man, but a very aggressive woman.

By linking masculinity to Trump and his movement, we are in fact debasing the very concept of masculinity. And in the future, when all this blows over (and assuming that the human race still exists), I believe this is something we will all come to regret.
I am reading again Seneca’s Essay ‘On the Shortness of Life’, and while I am still dumbstruck by the wisdom in the essay, I am also intrigued by Seneca's comments concerning the Emperor Caligula.
Very recently within those few days after Gaius Caesar [Caligula] died—still grieving most deeply (if the dead have any feeling) because he knew that the Roman people were alive and had enough food left for at any rate seven or eight days while he was building his bridges of boats and playing with the resources of the empire, we were threatened with the worst evil that can befall men even during a siege—the lack of provisions; his imitation of a mad and foreign and misproud king was very nearly at the cost of the city's destruction and famine and the general revolution that follows famine.
Caligula built a large pontoon bridge so he could vainly walk across the sea. The pontoons he used were grain transport ships for Rome. Seneca seemed to believe that Caligula was impersonating a crazy person, that deep down Caligula knew what he was doing was totally wrong and insane, and upon realizing that his insanity left Rome starving, he grieved. Why, oh why, would a rational man, act insane? When Caligula first became emperor, he was a beloved and just ruler. However, several months into his reign he contracted a serious illness. After he recovered, he seemed to be a different person. He seemed to have gone mad. I think his illness put the fear of death into him. When the cold hand of death gently settled on his shoulder, sending him the unyielding notification that annihilation is coming, he went crazy.

Trump is now 70 years old. He will die of old age one day, very soon. This isn’t something one can put off anymore. The cold hand of death rests its bones on Trump now, and this is what I think fuels his actions and endeavors. To hell with consciousness, soul, conscience, integrity, structured thought, and insight. I am going to DIE! I am 70 years old! And what have I done with my life? I've frittled it away hoarding wealth and pleasure. I have to strike fast and hard to make a real and deep mark on the world, not just some pathetic useless billboards. I need to be a part of history. I need to be a figurehead. I need a monument to last for generations in my name. I need a WALL.

Even the most effeminate man possesses a higher degree of masculinity than the most masculine woman, and in this sense Trump does possess a degree of masculinity which I don't think you give him credit. He is conscious of his own death, conscientious of his legacy, acquainted with authentic Sein-zum-Tode, inner thoughts structured to the task, and single-minded in his ambition. There is no way a woman would be capable of running a campaign like Trump's, no matter how aggressive or masculine she is. Trump's being-toward-death is single-handedly taking a sledgehammer to American politics in order to gain himself a legacy, and it is all his own. If that's not masculine then I don't know what is. But I don't think masculine necessarily implies enlightened. Masculinity gives one better odds of becoming enlightened, but only if the energy is pointed in the right direction. Concerning Trump, he is definitely not pointed in the right direction. But perhaps some good will come of it. Kevin seems to think so.
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Kevin Solway
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

Dan Rowden wrote:This is Brietbart, a 'news' service supposedly superior to the mainstream media [whatever that is].

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -criminal/

You want to tell me this is more truthful 'news' than the MSM? Fuck off. Literally, fuck off.
Who are you talking to?

Who is saying that such articles are "news", or should exist, etc? Is anybody saying that Breitbart is a model for what journalism should become? Who?

I have been saying that in my experience there is at least ten times more truth on Breitbart than there is in the mainstream media. That is all. In my opinion the mainsteam media has almost zero worth, and Breitbart has precious little.
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Kevin Solway »

I won't be participating in this topic any further. I think I've adequately responded to David's opening post.

There's enough ad hominem attacks, smearing, and diagnosing people with mental illnesses elsewhere on the internet if I ever need it.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Dan Rowden »

Kevin Solway wrote:
Dan Rowden wrote:This is Brietbart, a 'news' service supposedly superior to the mainstream media [whatever that is].

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -criminal/

You want to tell me this is more truthful 'news' than the MSM? Fuck off. Literally, fuck off.
Who are you talking to?

Who is saying that such articles are "news", or should exist, etc? Is anybody saying that Breitbart is a model for what journalism should become? Who?

I have been saying that in my experience there is at least ten times more truth on Breitbart than there is in the mainstream media. That is all. In my opinion the mainsteam media has almost zero worth, and Breitbart has precious little.
The article I posted is entirely indicative of Breitbart's output. At its best it's barely better than the National Enquirer. Only my opinion, of course, based on my close reading over the last 6 months.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Dan Rowden »

Kevin Solway wrote:I won't be participating in this topic any further. I think I've adequately responded to David's opening post.
Is 'adequate' an absolute or opinion-based quantity/quality?
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