Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Pam Seeback
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Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Pam Seeback » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:04 am

There appears to be two main views of the nature of reality: 1) that of uncaused, eternal mind or consciousness or 2) that of causality of which mind or consciousness is a caused condition.

In the case of the metaphysics of consciousness only, because consciousness is dependent on the I-concept to exist, belief in an absolute or independent transmigrating, manifesting spirit or soul or self within realms or dimensions of consciousness is a requirement. In the case of wisdom of causality (causality has no metaphysics) no such absolute dimension-experiencing entity is believed to exist: form is emptiness, emptiness is form. To causality-wise consciousness, an angel is no more existent than is a tree or a dog or a demon.

Clearly than, if it is release from the stress or pain or suffering (dukkha) of consciousness seeking (I-making) that is desired, then the only sane understanding of the nature of reality is that of the absolute law of causality: as the I of consciousness is caused to appear because of ignorance of emptiness, so may the I of consciousness be caused not to appear because of wisdom of emptiness.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:42 am

It's like the throwing of a stone in a quiet pond, all the concentric circles, the iris, the disturbances -- even the muddying of what was so transparent before: when you could see the brilliant koi moving along near the bottom!

Now for the Zen bit : if no stone is thrown: the pond will die a slow death. But if a stone is thrown: it will probably hit someone in the eye ;-)

Pam Seeback
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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Pam Seeback » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:40 pm

Better a stone than a boomerang. :-)

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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle » Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:22 am

Consciousness exists (insomuch as anything exists), but it is caused.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:16 am

Consciousness as object would certainly be caused, as subject it's very capable of denying causality.

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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:59 am

Diebert, would you please explain your perspective more fully, as I don't see how anything, save possibly the Absolute itself, is uncaused. Even the Absolute could possibly be argued to be self caused, thereby not uncaused.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:04 am

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Diebert, would you please explain your perspective more fully, as I don't see how anything, save possibly the Absolute itself, is uncaused. Even the Absolute could possibly be argued to be self caused, thereby not uncaused.
Consciousness as object would certainly be caused: the mind, brain tissue, chemistry, electricity, microtubules, personality and trauma.

Consciousness as subject is very capable of denying causality: ignorance, self, inherent existence, birth, death, "it is" and suffering.

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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Nothing resting » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:15 am

There is no you to see consciousness, but there is consciousness to see you.

There is only me, nothing.

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:13 am

Divine focus, right? Welcome back.

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Re: Consciousness Only vs. Causality

Post by Nothing resting » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:30 pm

Thank you.

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