Humans.

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Pam Seeback
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Re: Humans.

Post by Pam Seeback »

ardy: Diebert and Seeker have almost no understanding of the way, to my mind they never will have unless they change [unlikely]. They are too attached to intellectual dissection and argument. The way is far simpler and harder than those two stone heads realise.
Since by your own admission you have not experienced ego death, "the way":
ardy: Yes Crow and therefore it is often referred to as the Ego Death. Having been close to letting my 'self' go I can understand why it often needs a strong push to send you through. It is a very scary situation and feels like you will die with nothing to hold onto.
are you not then making your judgment of Diebert and Seeker from the perception of yourself or ego, your own holding-on "stone head"?

Regarding the rest of the content in our conversation, I offer this quote from the Buddha with regards to how one knows when the idea of self or ego is engaged and when it is not: "Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress." — SN 22.86

What saith you about that? :-)
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ardy
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Re: Humans.

Post by ardy »

visheshdewan050193 wrote:The ego is a consequence of a significantly developed conciousness (or masculinity/genius, as Weininger put it).

Ironically, you technically require a strong ego in order to transcend it.

Also reading posts by Ardy and Diebert:

I wouldn't want to talk about jnana/samadhi since I haven't really cultivated one-pointed absorption ever, but ardy, you'd do well to get off your high horse by toning down the anti-intellectual attitude.

I can quote a half dozen quotes of the Buddha (as recorded in the Pali canon/ Chinese texts) that agree with statements Quinn/Solway have made/established via pure reasoning. The similarity is so striking, it's natural to infer that the Buddha in all probability employed similar lines of reasoning when he said some of the things he said.

You seem to put yourself as an experienced practitioner who knows what he is doing, and to young upstarts such as myself you really don't come across as that in attitude, at least in comparison to people like QS (who I've actually managed to talk to quite a bit) and Diebert (who I've just briefly talked to/read of). Off the bat I'd agree with Diebert's assessment of people like crow.
Good for you. You are in the right place. Let me know when you experience the oneness of everything or the great scheme and your place in it? Until you do some work and gain some experience, talking or writing to anyone as your only weapon against ego will most probably fail. But happy to be proven wrong! There are thousands of spokes to this wheel.

My issue is there are few here who have had much in the way of spiritual experience or felt the world of their ego moving under them. The ones I truly enjoyed have moved away.

Few here have come close to the death of the ego, at least if they had it is never mentioned, like their experiences. None have transcribed the circle and found the way in.

Hope you find what you are looking for here. I enjoyed some of my time here and it is good to be challenged by stone heads it keeps you on your toes....
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Russell Parr
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Re: Humans.

Post by Russell Parr »

ardy wrote:Let me know when you experience the oneness of everything or the great scheme and your place in it? Until you do some work and gain some experience, talking or writing to anyone as your only weapon against ego will most probably fail.
Oh my, the irony..
visheshdewan050193
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Re: Humans.

Post by visheshdewan050193 »

well, newcomer here, can anybody surmise ardy's fundamental position here in this forum?

Is it basically that jhana (say a particularly deep rupa one, or even arupa ones) = enlightenment and that nobody here who opposes his views (especially those who attempt to use reasoning in order to do so) has ever experienced any kind of truly profound samadhi?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Humans.

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

visheshdewan050193 wrote:well, newcomer here, can anybody surmise ardy's fundamental position here in this forum?
It's not necessarily "untrue" what he writes, it's just all remains, at best, pretty shallow and probably because his experiences have not been very deep so far. A little truth can quickly appear then absolute, unspeakable and all consuming that way. And it all stops there! Since a majority in society suffers the same bluntness of the senses and the mind, it quickly can become validated as some kind of insight amongst the average folks. At this forum however, a wider range of penetration is targeted, in reason as well as the senses. It's interesting how many visitors have pointed to the discussions here at times as being unintellectual or simplistic but over-intellectual on other occasions. They just cannot make up their mind if the topic flies over their head or crawls deep underneath the ground they're standing on! Both could be true at the same time of course.
Pam Seeback
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Re: Humans.

Post by Pam Seeback »

ardy wrote:Good for you. You are in the right place. Let me know when you experience the oneness of everything or the great scheme and your place in it? Until you do some work and gain some experience, talking or writing to anyone as your only weapon against ego will most probably fail. But happy to be proven wrong! There are thousands of spokes to this wheel.

My issue is there are few here who have had much in the way of spiritual experience or felt the world of their ego moving under them. The ones I truly enjoyed have moved away.

Few here have come close to the death of the ego, at least if they had it is never mentioned, like their experiences. None have transcribed the circle and found the way in.

Hope you find what you are looking for here. I enjoyed some of my time here and it is good to be challenged by stone heads it keeps you on your toes....
ardy, you can't see how steeped in ego your words are. Which is the same blinder crow is wearing. I notice you ignored my question to you about the cessation of stress being the end result of meditation. Is it because the end of stress doesn't qualify as a "spiritual experience?"

The search for a spiritual experience of "transcribing the circle" is the epitome of ego and the antithesis of enlightenment. Which is precisely why it is the only way one discovers the true nature of things for themselves. The flame of desire burns bright and hot...

Transcribing the circle keeps the circle turning, rebirth, the flame of desire, round and round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel...which, by the way, if you are aware, was once my favourite pastime.

If you stick around, you will lose your desire to transcribe your perceived centre or Atman, which is, of course exactly what the ego does not want. The circle is the ego's crack cocaine, looking for the next fix, looking for the next fix...stress, release from stress, stress, release from stress...the weasel will never be snared as long as consciousness rides the circle.
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Humans.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

movingalways wrote:Which is the same blinder crow is wearing.
https://www.facebook.com/Legendarymotor ... 807056072/

Appearances can be deceiving.

While we could say there are 'degrees' of delusion, some being less delusional perhaps then others, delusional is still delusional. That's basically how your lack of precision in describing things like the ego or causality appear to me, sort of like you pulled out the first blanket statement that came to mind and threw it on to your screen.

Half of what you say is either regurgitated (which I doubt) or is just whatever you feel like the situation is (probably the case), despite it not being logically sound in comparison to your experience.

Person:
"What did you say that apple was?"

Moving:
"It's not an apple at all, it's a culmination of the causality of uncountable things!"

And so on, and so on.
Pam Seeback
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Re: Humans.

Post by Pam Seeback »

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:
movingalways wrote:Which is the same blinder crow is wearing.
https://www.facebook.com/Legendarymotor ... 807056072/

Appearances can be deceiving.

While we could say there are 'degrees' of delusion, some being less delusional perhaps then others, delusional is still delusional. That's basically how your lack of precision in describing things like the ego or causality appear to me, sort of like you pulled out the first blanket statement that came to mind and threw it on to your screen.

Half of what you say is either regurgitated (which I doubt) or is just whatever you feel like the situation is (probably the case), despite it not being logically sound in comparison to your experience.

Person:
"What did you say that apple was?"

Moving:
"It's not an apple at all, it's a culmination of the causality of uncountable things!"

And so on, and so on.
Again, you post that my precision is lacking, but offer no Seeker correction, even when I ask for it (see your last post to me re my post on absolute truths). If you cannot step up to the plate and enter into dialogue with me, precision challenging precision, I ask you to put me on ignore. Finger wagging teaches nothin' to nobody.
Ataraxia
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Location: Melbourne

Re: Humans.

Post by Ataraxia »

crow wrote:
Ever since I arrived here, against my better judgement, I've been attacked, insulted, undermined and condescended-to.
Only one guy has been benevolent.
maybe they're testing your ego.
Beingof1
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Re: Humans.

Post by Beingof1 »

There are avenues or blockages that are in need of clearing to allow for a free flow of wisdom and consciousness. Once these are in a free flow state, the windows of Heaven/transcendent energy is lifted to higher states of understanding and you get out of the way of life itself.

1) Fear - Dig deep within the recesses of your mind, soul and memory. Find what you fear the most and allow this state to embrace you - become one with it and then release it. Let it flow through you.
This will open the door of the physical.

2) Guilt - Forgive yourself for being less than noble or character flaws. The thing/memory that you feel self loathing from - release it in self forgiveness. If need be, ask God for assistance in forgiveness. The power of the cross in Christianity is especially helpful with this block.
This will open the door of pleasure and enjoy the gift of being alive.

3) Shame - Release all self disappointment. Everything that has the failure of expectations. let it go.
This will release a superhuman willpower.

4) Grief - Release all sadness and loss.You have suffered loss, let it go.
This will release love in the divine. An appreciation for all life.

5) Deception - Release all denial and self deception. Live the truth, be the truth and speak the truth.
You become truth itself.

6) Separation - Release the illusion/self illusion of separation - all is connected. Reality is not a concept. reality is the absence of separation.
This will release the light of heightened insight/intuition. It allows for a telepathic connection with all and everything.

7) Attachment - Release all attachment to being someone, having things/money or feeling something (sex, drugs and rock and roll). Release your attachment to people or a person - let it go.
You will experience thought in a pure cosmic energy stream of information. You surrender to what cannot be comprehended and the top of your head is connected to the transcendent.


What a rush - enjoy. Once you begin, finish and do not stop.

You can thank me later ;)
Bobo
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Re: Humans.

Post by Bobo »

1) Fear - Wow, this is nothing like the professional treatment of phobias goes around. Anyway fear can be damaging to psychologies and courage seems to come from long term being. 'Fear no fear' is preferable to 'don't be afraid of being afraid'.
"Let it flow through you" - Embrace hate, now you sound like a sith.

2)Guilt - Do things that bring you no guilt. The zen koan "does a dog have Buddha nature?" is better translated as does a son of a bitch has Buddha nature, the famous answer is no. Let's not pretend that christian fanatics don't shun sexuality and are against fun for brainwashing minds.

3 and 4) Don't even go there in the first place. Shaming can be a quite bizarre thing in society. The vulgarity of the extremely ignoramus roams free without shaming and the pathology of the innate inability of feeling shame may be a real thing, That may be the only place where shaming would make sense - a disfunctionality that goes unchallenged and unperceived - and that is precisely where it fails, a function of a disfunctional society.

5 ...) Now lines are getting meager, you're making stuff up.
Beingof1
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Re: Humans.

Post by Beingof1 »

Bobo,
You missed the point by about ten thousand light years but thanks for replying.

Good luck
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Humans.

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Beingof1 wrote:...the light of heightened insight/intuition. It allows for a telepathic connection with all and everything.
That's a more destructive and violent sentiment than you might realize. Forging a link with everything is rape. It doesn't allow all and everything to be without you knowing about it, feeling something about it. In reality, all connections arise out of meaning.
Bobo
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Re: Humans.

Post by Bobo »

Beingof1 wrote:Bobo,
You missed the point by about ten thousand light years but thanks for replying.

Good luck
Bo1, Yoda said "Do or do not. There's no try", he said that about using the mind to move objects which is mad as one could use it to crush people and jedis are know to be mind manipulators (like religious preachers), he also said “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”.

Emperor Palpatine said on occasion "Let the hate flow through you." and "Good. I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete." Are you going to deny that you sound like a sith?

Side note: is that I had lucid dreams after having no reservations with killing people on said dreams, so there's that too.
Bobo
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Re: Humans.

Post by Bobo »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
Beingof1 wrote:...the light of heightened insight/intuition. It allows for a telepathic connection with all and everything.
That's a more destructive and violent sentiment than you might realize. Forging a link with everything is rape. It doesn't allow all and everything to be without you knowing about it, feeling something about it. In reality, all connections arise out of meaning.
Absolutely, any know-it-all knows everything there's to know - it's all about ME.
Beingof1
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Re: Humans.

Post by Beingof1 »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
Beingof1 wrote:...the light of heightened insight/intuition. It allows for a telepathic connection with all and everything.
That's a more destructive and violent sentiment than you might realize. Forging a link with everything is rape. It doesn't allow all and everything to be without you knowing about it, feeling something about it. In reality, all connections arise out of meaning.
What part of reality are you separated from?

Bobo,
Maybe you are right, you should stuff that anger and fear so deep into the recesses of your soul through the method of denial, it will fester and resurface as disease or mental instability. That way; you can test yourself to the limit by allowing it to burn a hole in you.

The whole point is to allow it to dissipate rather than hang on to it. You cannot achieve liberation through denial.
Bobo
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Re: Humans.

Post by Bobo »

Maybe you're right, you just have to tighten up your asshole and release like taking a deep breath. There may be some kind pleasure in this movement, that also something to let it go isn't it? Living fears with imagination. Avoiding battles you cannot win isn't the same to be in a state of denial
Aniihya
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Re: Humans.

Post by Aniihya »

You talk about humans being worthless. What if worth was a human concept to begin with? That would render everything naturally without worth. However generally I see humans as commonly foolish beings with their absolutism and their false sense of certainty regardless if they have evidence or not.
Morse
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Re: Humans.

Post by Morse »

crow wrote:I don't know of any life-form more useless than humans.
What makes humans so worthless?
Ego.

Nothing else has an ego. Only humans.
Perhaps this is true, even for other primates, but animals still manage to kill, rape, go on rampages, retrict others from food, be surly, even torture.

But what is your conception of ego. To me ego is neutral. It is a sense of self and a kind of boundary. It needn't lead to problems, in fact not having boundaries and self awareness can lead to problems.

But perhaps you mean something else.
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amerika
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Re: Humans.

Post by amerika »

ardy wrote: Pam - I think he offers just one thing and that is the power of no-mind. I am fascinated by this concept as I have never experienced no-mind myself but I have read enough about it to make me wonder if this state is real or imagined?
How experienced are you with transcendental meditation, of any form?
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