The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Stuart-
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The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by Stuart- »

The fullest expression of the idea of sustained happiness is that it's possible to achieve a state where the majority of one's worries will be gone, and one will have accomplished all that one has sought to accomplish, and have all that one has sought to have, and live in a state of near bliss, only occasionally interrupted by minor discomforts.

To see through that myth we must look at human nature. It's not to seek a certain degree of comfort and then settle, but to continually grow when possible. If we feel deprived of something, then if we manage to satiate that deprivation, we'll feel happy for a while. But then we'll begin to want more. Historical examples are numerous of this, but are there are few, if any examples of the reverse. People can settle, they can meet a long lasting state of contentment, but that contentment does not equate to happiness, it's a state between happiness and sadness.

Joy is a reaction to the temporary cessation of need, joy cannot be self sustaining. Here we must be very exact in what we're speaking about. - As living beings we are in a near perpetual state of need. We aren't like a stone statute that can remain relatively unaffected by its environment and be relatively unaffecting to its environment. We constantly take and give to our environment, as the continual process of obtaining what satiates our need to fulfill lack, and giving away the excess we need to dispel.

As conscious beings we often feel our needs, but it's very useful to understand that we don't always feel them. The feeling of need can be described using words anywhere from minor discomfort to agonizing pain. People often fail to understand that discomfort and pain are from the same spectrum. They often think of them as two separate things, but discomfort, pain and agony are all part of the spectrum defined as the sensation of need.

As conscious beings we also feel pleasure. It's the sensation that comes when our body feels we should be aware of the temporary cessation of need. - Here is the part that one may wish to pay extra close attention to. - Just because we feel pleasure at the temporary cessation of a need, doesn't mean that we had previously felt the need that has now temporarily ceased. For example, we may feel pleasure when receiving a shoulder massage. This pleasure is due to the sensation of the cessation of tension in our shoulders. But, it doesn't mean that we had ever noticed that tension. Whether we did or didn't doesn't necessarily have a correlation between the pleasure we feel.

Similarly, just because a need has been temporarily fulfilled doesn't mean we feel pleasure because of this. This is true whether we had previously felt that need or not. For example, if we feel hungry and eat, we will feel pleasure at the temporary cessation of that need. The reason is to keep us eating, because without the pleasure we may not bother. But, we can possibly be given food through a tube, and fill no pleasure in the process of becoming full.

Think about the joy one experience after working very hard for very long then going on a quality vacation. In this case what has happened is that the need to rest has grown and grown, and once on vacation that need is being satiated. But once we have rested all that we need, then we can rest no more. To sit in one place on the beach all day and stare at the ocean stops being an act of rest from hard work and becomes a test of endurance in itself. It becomes a test to maintain self control amidst mounting pressure to begin activity again.

We have many over-arching needs in our lives, that we can spend years trying to relieve, and there's not necessarily any reason we shouldn't try. But, it's helpful to understand that once the needs are fulfilled, other needs will come.
Last edited by Stuart- on Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Russell Parr
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by Russell Parr »

As you allude, we have evolved with the samsaric cycles of happiness and unhappiness in order to ensure our survival as a biological organism. We will always need a few things like food and sleep, but there is a way to transcend the pleasures and displeasures associated with our needs, though it takes a great amount of practice and meditation. Not every mind is fit for this transcendence, as the ego is a powerful force. It involves uprooting the the persuasive influence of the emotions from one's thinking processes until all that is left is purely logical perception, but is of vital importance that one first has an accurate understanding of the nature of reality, which essentially involves an intimate knowledge of the interrelatedness of all things, and the continual changing nature thereof.
Stuart-
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by Stuart- »

Russell wrote:As you allude, we have evolved with the samsaric cycles of happiness and unhappiness in order to ensure our survival as a biological organism. We will always need a few things like food and sleep, but there is a way to transcend the pleasures and displeasures associated with our needs, though it takes a great amount of practice and meditation.
You seem to be implying here that part of this transcendence would involve eliminating most needs. If all we needed for things like food and sleep we wouldn't be much more advanced than house plants.
Not every mind is fit for this transcendence, as the ego is a powerful force. It involves uprooting the the persuasive influence of the emotions from one's thinking processes until all that is left is purely logical perception, but is of vital importance that one first has an accurate understanding of the nature of reality, which essentially involves an intimate knowledge of the interrelatedness of all things, and the continual changing nature thereof.
I don't see how there's a direct correlation between eliminating most needs and developing the ability to reason without emotions interfering. Nor do I see how a better understanding of reality necessarily would help one develop that ability. I understand how it's very helpful. One at least needs to understand that reality exists as it is whether one has positive or negative emotions associated with it if one wishes to being to learn to reason in all things, no matter how important or mundane, without emotion. But, actually, it seems that developing that ability is more of prerequisite, than an effect, of obtaining an accurate understanding of reality.

I also don't understand how one who wishes to eliminate most needs would have much reason to be more concerned with developing a greater understanding of reality. It seems if all one needs is sleep and food, then all one needs to understand is how to obtain a safe comfortable place to rest and how to obtain food.
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Russell Parr
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by Russell Parr »

Stuart- wrote:You seem to be implying here that part of this transcendence would involve eliminating most needs. If all we needed for things like food and sleep we wouldn't be much more advanced than house plants.
I'm not advocating "eliminating most needs," or any actual needs at all. Other needs could be things like shelter and social stimulation, and perhaps some other more specific things. But this is besides my point, which is that transcendence of the desire for happiness is possible, thus relinquishing one from the myth that you bring up.
I don't see how there's a direct correlation between eliminating most needs and developing the ability to reason without emotions interfering. Nor do I see how a better understanding of reality necessarily would help one develop that ability. I understand how it's very helpful. One at least needs to understand that reality exists as it is whether one has positive or negative emotions associated with it if one wishes to being to learn to reason in all things, no matter how important or mundane, without emotion. But, actually, it seems that developing that ability is more of prerequisite, than an effect, of obtaining an accurate understanding of reality.
I don't disagree here.
I also don't understand how one who wishes to eliminate most needs would have much reason to be more concerned with developing a greater understanding of reality. It seems if all one needs is sleep and food, then all one needs to understand is how to obtain a safe comfortable place to rest and how to obtain food.
It is a matter of values, essentially. If one desires the epitome of wisdom, then much has to be sacrificed indeed. Again, it's not necessarily about eliminated excessive needs, but the transcendence of desires, in order to obtain a pure conscious awareness of reality. This would necessitate that one's knowledge of the nature of reality is perfectly accurate, or one is delusional to the degree that their knowledge is imperfect.

Perhaps the question is, is such a thing possible? The truth is, most people will never know until they have a enough reason to strive for that answer, plus perhaps a little luck.
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by crow »

I see a lot of desire and need here. The things that keep humans in that human state that seekers seek to transcend.
Add seeking to the first two traps.

One does not become little more than a plant :)
Balance is the only worthwhile target. At root, neither life, nor death being more or less preferable.
A man can never know this state, unless he dives into it and finds out.
His mind will certainly never be able to provide an accurate answer.
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by Stuart- »

One seeks what he needs or has mistaken himself into believing that he needs.
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ardy
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by ardy »

Stuart- wrote:One seeks what he needs or has mistaken himself into believing that he needs.
Stuart: Interesting post and I too have looked at this subject as an onlooker, with a fine example right before me.

One [should] Seek, One's Self - the rest is the dust of human existence doing what our monkey mind tells us to do.

If one doesn't have the strength to seek for one's self, they should at least have the strength to deal with their own shit before criticising others.

Sustained happiness is a total myth from where I stand for all the points you made. Corals only flourish where the force of the sea moves over them, in protected areas they are weak and die easily.
ABlackGenus
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by ABlackGenus »

It is a myth for most Earth lifeforms today, but perhaps possible someday through engineering either cyborgs or genetically modified entities.
Pam Seeback
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by Pam Seeback »

Russell wrote:As you allude, we have evolved with the samsaric cycles of happiness and unhappiness in order to ensure our survival as a biological organism. We will always need a few things like food and sleep, but there is a way to transcend the pleasures and displeasures associated with our needs, though it takes a great amount of practice and meditation. Not every mind is fit for this transcendence, as the ego is a powerful force. It involves uprooting the the persuasive influence of the emotions from one's thinking processes until all that is left is purely logical perception, but is of vital importance that one first has an accurate understanding of the nature of reality, which essentially involves an intimate knowledge of the interrelatedness of all things, and the continual changing nature thereof.
Russell, I believe this is the purpose of this board, to kick the ego of ignorance that clings to pretty things and by default, not-so-pretty things in the ass (aka, transcendence). You are right about truth (the ass-kicker) being a purely logical perception, something the ego resists with a passion, which of course is the fuel for the long story of its samsaric lives.

I put forward that this board be known as the place the ego comes for ass kicking unto death.
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ardy
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Re: The Myth of Sustained Happiness

Post by ardy »

movingalways wrote:
I put forward that this board be known as the place the ego comes for ass kicking unto death.
Oh! That that was true Pam. A fine aim that one..
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