PConspiracy

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Bobo
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PConspiracy

Post by Bobo »

[Split from topic Cycles of Civilization -- moderator ]
Russsel wrote: - Civilization is in shambles
- Society is unhappy, life is hard
- Masculine values become dominant
- Men conquer, fix, and build things
- Civilization thrives
- Society is happy, life is easy
- Awareness of women's lowly status in maintaining civilization takes prominence
- Women's abilities are raised to false heights
- Feminine values become dominant
- Civilization deteriorates

Rinse and repeat.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7584

-

Is hardness really associated with masculinity and 'easiness' with feminity?

When 'life is hard' it seems the right place for drama queens to shine. Comedy on the other hand :-) .

Anyway can you give me an example of what you are talking about?
Last edited by Bobo on Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Russell Parr
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Re: Cycles of Civilization

Post by Russell Parr »

Bobo wrote:Is hardness really associated with masculinity and 'easiness' with feminity?
Not necessarily. Life can be hard for both sexes, though it is generally harder for men, because men usually have to prove their worth, while women just need to be soft and cute for instant approval.
When 'life is hard' it seems the right place for drama queens to shine. Comedy on the other hand :-) .
Right on, and such cries from women drive men into working overtime in order to provide comforts for our queens.
Anyway can you give me an example of what you are talking about?
Sure, look through your window!
Bobo
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Re: Cycles of Civilization

Post by Bobo »

While women were often excluded from the public life it seems that female and male roles are usually complementary in societies not excludent, so I don't think it makes much sense in dividing society in male and female values, the dominance of values and division of civilization are usually not gender based (while there may be such a division in spheres within it).

What is your scale of tiime here? Or do you think that Bush was masculine invading foreign countries and stuff, and Obama is obviously feminine so oh the decadence is here now.
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Russell Parr
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Re: Cycles of Civilization

Post by Russell Parr »

Bobo wrote:While women were often excluded from the public life it seems that female and male roles are usually complementary in societies not excludent, so I don't think it makes much sense in dividing society in male and female values, the dominance of values and division of civilization are usually not gender based (while there may be such a division in spheres within it).
I think it's obvious that that men and women necessarily work together to make society, but at different stages of the rise and fall, different values take prominence. It's not common for these values to be split into masculine and feminine by politically correct observers, but it still works. For example, most of western society is predominantly feminine, while cultures such as in the middle east are more masculine.
What is your scale of tiime here? Or do you think that Bush was masculine invading foreign countries and stuff, and Obama is obviously feminine so oh the decadence is here now.
The time scale is however long it takes for civilization to rise and fall, on micro and macro levels. On the large scale, some research holds it that globally dominant empires last around 250 years (interestingly, USA is 239 years old going by the signing of the Declaration of Independence).

I would agree that conservatives are quite more masculine than liberals, but as a whole, the US has been exceedingly feminine since somewhere around the middle of the 20th century when the women's rights movement gained a lot of momentum.
Bobo
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PConspiracy

Post by Bobo »

Prominence of masculine and feminine values in society? I think I've never heard of anything like this in the way you are talking about or do you mean male chauvinism, that was a thing. I don't think there's any PConspiracy on this issue as it is just not good societal analysis and talking about matriarchies and patriarchies were never a problem.

I don't think secularism is feminine, it seems that you think that discrimination against women is a masculine thing and want to blame the downfall of every society in history on feminism. I think that the desire to segregate the sexes have a tendency to be female in nature and the ideas you are espousing too.
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Russell Parr
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Russell Parr »

Bobo wrote:Prominence of masculine and feminine values in society? I think I've never heard of anything like this in the way you are talking about or do you mean male chauvinism, that was a thing. I don't think there's any PConspiracy on this issue as it is just not good societal analysis and talking about matriarchies and patriarchies were never a problem.
Oh there's definitely a PConspiracy going on, an unconscious conspiracy, that you've never heard of because most people wouldn't touch this subject with a 10 foot pole. It's much too sensitive of a topic. Most grow up developing knee-jerk defense mechanisms against this sort of thing.
I don't think secularism is feminine, it seems that you think that discrimination against women is a masculine thing and want to blame the downfall of every society in history on feminism. I think that the desire to segregate the sexes have a tendency to be female in nature and the ideas you are espousing too.
I would blame the downfall of society on irrationality. It just so happens that the human traits of emotionalism, passive aggressiveness, withdrawnness, all of which give way for irrationality and unconsciousness, predominantly emanate from the feminine side of the sexes. In contrast, rationalism, straightforward aggressiveness, and growth and expansion are all masculine tendencies.

I'm not simply saying men are better than women. I am saying that nature has endowed men with certain qualities that are more likely to lead to consciousness and rationality. The better society is at coming to terms with this, the better off we would be. Instead, for the love of women, society attributes false virtues to femininity, not because we want to help them, but simply to please them, thus unwittingly paving the way to pain and misery.
Bobo
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Bobo »

You're describing the fight between good and evil like other religions, in yours it also means male vs female. No society would be better off under yours or any other religious babble, that's not how things work in secular democratic societies.
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Russell Parr
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Russell Parr »

I assure you, my battle is between ignorance and truth. Truth isn't always an easy pill to swallow, of course.
Bobo
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Bobo »

Knowledge is the opposite of ignorance not truth, it is something that truthers like to ignore.
crow
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by crow »

My wife serves me. Looks after me. Stands by me. Adores me. Stands in awe of me.
I have no idea why.
Well, I do.
But even so...

Take heart, disillusioned men: Forget saving the world, or civilization. Save yourself. Only then will she find her way to you. Because you will be what no other man is...
A Man.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

crow wrote:My wife serves me. Looks after me. Stands by me. Adores me. Stands in awe of me.
I have no idea why. .
Sounds more like a mother. And to have her at your side you must have nearly killed your father! Meaning: killing the strength of your mind, diminishing self-control and discipline, abolish politeness and little respect for what you don't know, to avoid any restraint when entering a new place, to ignore adherence to the natural aspects of rule and law. Rule and law, which forms the past, the fabric of whatever we conceive to be. God the Father.

It's more likely you are still child. Or someone afraid of a little thought because it "hurts". The only one impressed by your words on this forum has the ego of a sky-scraper. Which points to a troll score, they always aim for them.

Feel free to demonstrate a bit of focus and quality in how you deal with your realities. This is not a forum for kids and you sound like one who has barely lived or tried anything at all. Perhaps it's just your personality though, one you might not even realize sitting in the way. Anyway, I might have to clean up a bit after your cow droppings. Or crow, it was crow. Sorry!
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ardy
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by ardy »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
crow wrote:My wife serves me. Looks after me. Stands by me. Adores me. Stands in awe of me.
I have no idea why. .
Sounds more like a mother. And to have her at your side you must have nearly killed your father! Meaning: the strength of your mind, some level of self-control and discipline, politeness and respect for what you don't know, some restraint when entering a new place, some adherence to the natural aspects of law, rule and law. Which is the past, the fabric of whatever we conceive to be. God the Father.

It's more likely you are still child. Or someone afraid of a little thought because it "hurts". The only one impressed by your words on this forum has the ego of a sky-scraper. Which points to a troll score, they always aim for them.

Feel free to demonstrate a bit of focus and quality in how you deal with your realities. This is not a forum for kids and you sound like one who has barely lived or tried anything at all. Perhaps it's just your personality though, one you might not even realize sitting in the way. Anyway, I might have to clean up a bit after your cow droppings. Or crow, it was crow. Sorry!
Diebert - Don't you recognise anything in Crow? Does nothing that he says resonate with you?

You have been discussing this situation for how long, 15 years maybe more and you can't see anything in what he has written across many threads here in the last 2 days?

I really thought you would.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

ardy wrote:Diebert - Don't you recognise anything in Crow? Does nothing that he says resonate with you?
I know all about rampant ego using a forum as a toilet bowl. Of course you see "something" in it because you're looking for mirrors to look pretty. Crow supplies that. Is this what you meant with "new plants" which gently have to be cared for?

Perhaps it's gentler to clip some wings, to prune and trim. Give it a chance! People don't learn of course, their course is set.
crow
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by crow »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
ardy wrote:Diebert - Don't you recognise anything in Crow? Does nothing that he says resonate with you?
I know all about rampant ego using a forum as a toilet bowl. Of course you see "something" in it because you're looking for mirrors to look pretty. Crow supplies that. Is this what you meant with "new plants" which gently have to be cared for?

Perhaps it's gentler to clip some wings, to prune and trim. Give it a chance! People don't learn of course, their course is set.
I'll surprise you, and do what you think I am incapable of.
Any forum is the measure of its admin. I hear you are one. Your forum sucks, and you are why it sucks.
You're so inept I even have to do your job for you.
I'm outta here, mission accomplished.
/END
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

You heard wrong, I'm not the admin or owner of this graveyard. Have only one button really and use it to thanklessly clean up after hordes of potty mouths, drunks, spammers, dope smoking kids and other people aggressively suppressing their own mind and the suffering it will reveal. Thanks for all the typical teenage drama stampede though! Heart warming.
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ardy
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by ardy »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
ardy wrote:Diebert - Don't you recognise anything in Crow? Does nothing that he says resonate with you?
I know all about rampant ego using a forum as a toilet bowl. Of course you see "something" in it because you're looking for mirrors to look pretty. Crow supplies that. Is this what you meant with "new plants" which gently have to be cared for?

Perhaps it's gentler to clip some wings, to prune and trim. Give it a chance! People don't learn of course, their course is set.
Deibert - An idea maybe that you forget about questions of spirituality and concentrate on what the sites name is ie Genius and all the thinking and comparing that it suggests. Unlike Crow I think there is a place for genius (at least a sharp mind) and I admire it at some level but thinking and comparing ain't a stepping stone to enlightenment.

I came here as someone who needs to discuss areas of Zen that have me. I am not a genius as you would know but I understand some things and I have experienced some things that many here have not, including you. There are members here who are on a spiritual path and have as much understanding as I have and some have more than I.

I would like to offer you some advice. Do not fight so hard, it is not necessary, you can step back a few metres and all will be just as well.

There are no members here who need clipping or pruning. You are trying too hard...

P.S. As Bobo wrote "Is hardness really associated with masculinity"
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

The sentiment is appreciated Ardy but you'll have to just accept here that I know what I'm doing and you perhaps are a bit, well naive. You are here defending someone who was not even serious and has been yanking your chain a bit. This is not about genius, it's about minimum age and mature level of discussion, if possible, perhaps some respect for the basics of a discussion. If discussing the topics is not what is preferred and "zen" is looked after then do not log on to a forum trying to explain that to others. Because in that case, there's no "zen" but a "mission" or some kidding, your self or others, or perhaps even the passion of gloating. There's definitely nobody helped with that and misdirection remains.
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ardy
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by ardy »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:The sentiment is appreciated Ardy but you'll have to just accept here that I know what I'm doing and you perhaps are a bit, well naive. You are here defending someone who was not even serious and has been yanking your chain a bit. This is not about genius, it's about minimum age and mature level of discussion, if possible, perhaps some respect for the basics of a discussion. If discussing the topics is not what is preferred and "zen" is looked after then do not log on to a forum trying to explain that to others. Because in that case, there's no "zen" but a "mission" or some kidding, your self or others, or perhaps even the passion of gloating. There's definitely nobody helped with that and misdirection remains.
I give in with you Diebert. There is no common ground and little understanding, but thank Christ there are people here who are worth talking to.
Bobo
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by Bobo »

One addendum on 'hardness and masculinity' when talking of civilization in some way the very concept of civilization may be feminine in nature. Then any downfall of it could only happen from 'masculine' forces acting on it.
visheshdewan050193
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Re: PConspiracy

Post by visheshdewan050193 »

He's no sage, and doesn't really offer an 'ideal solution' taking into spiritual principles into account, but I believe you'll find the contents of this blog stimulating.

http://masculineprinciple.blogspot.sg/2 ... ciple.html
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