The cow Te ching

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
User avatar
Cahoot
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:02 am

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Cahoot »

In the face of violence, the actuality of a religion’s peacefulness requires more than a declaration that it’s a religion of peace. Likewise, “unchanging” and even “logical” are not determined by a declaration, but rather by limited knowledge. Limitation has a variety of causes, such as the sensitivity of measuring devices.
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Cahoot wrote:
What a surprise to find myself again, to some degree, at Kunga's side: "The Universe/Nature only exists in our conceptual minds."
From this premise, can we then logically conclude that a falling tree makes no sound in a forest unpopulated by the conceptualizer necessary to differentiate sound, no sound, sound?
Perhaps an improved version: "Any universe/nature/mind is ("exists in") universe/nature/mind". This is all about causality being real.
Cahoot wrote:In the face of violence, the actuality of a religion’s peacefulness requires more than a declaration that it’s a religion of peace. Likewise, “unchanging” and even “logical” are not determined by a declaration, but rather by limited knowledge. Limitation has a variety of causes, such as the sensitivity of measuring devices.
Causality lies beyond all declarations or measurements for the simple reason that to declare or measure anything at all, causality has to be affirmed first. That's the unchanging truth which can only be accessed through self-knowledge: to know the truth which all declaring, knowing and sensing, true or false have in common. This doesn't bring any new knowledge but might be able to take something away instead, when pursued consistently.
User avatar
Cahoot
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:02 am

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Cahoot »

According to the definition of sound, to be a sound, a vibration requires a transmitter and a receiver. No ears to hear a tree fall, no sound. So we can say that the elements combining in relationship to cause sound are transmission, vibration, a medium through which the vibration is transmitted, and reception. Combine all of these elements and sound is caused. Omit only one of them and sound is not caused. Knowing the causes for reception that produces a variance from 100% sensitivity and accuracy allowed by design, opens the possibility of eliminating those causes, though the causality that empowers those causes in relation to sound always exists as potentiality.
User avatar
Kunga
Posts: 2333
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Kunga »

oh blah blah blah...i can't even find a fuckin video recording of a tree in a forest ....so i been thinking ya'll got a damn alarm clock right ?
If you set your alarm clock ...and no one is within hearing distance...do you think for one minute that fuckin alarm clock will be silent if
no one is around to hear it ??????

FAT CHANCE !!!!

End of story.


Oh, I just found this !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9GU4P-1AWI
User avatar
Cahoot
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:02 am

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Cahoot »

In the case of the absent eager beaver who left the house before alarm time in order to get to work early and make a good impression on the boss, what you call silence would be transmission, medium and vibration, however reception is missing, so no sound, just like a tree fall in the forest makes no sound without someone to hear it. In outer space, even if the eager beaver receiver was present, willing, and able, without a medium to carry the vibration there would be no sound.
User avatar
Kunga
Posts: 2333
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Kunga »

I'm still trying to find a video recording !!!! All one has to do is show proof !!! Why can't I find this experiment anywhere ??????
I did read an article of someone making this experiement and recording it, and they said sound was there (when only the camera was recording). But they didn't post the evidence !!!!!!!

Anyways...I change my mind about it all being in the head and only our perceptions....before there was anyone or thing to percieve, there was something going on (the Universe has no begining or end theory), so before hearing evolved...there were still plants and trees growing....and thunder and everything else that evolved before any creatures that had sense perceptions......

Yes, without a brain and senses to percive, we wouldn't percieve things with our senses, but life will still go on, when all human life and anything that can percieve and has senses is gone.

It's not just in our mind or head or perception....this Universe is a living being !!!!
User avatar
Kunga
Posts: 2333
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Kunga »

Cahoot wrote:In the case of the absent eager beaver who left the house before alarm time in order to get to work early and make a good impression on the boss, what you call silence would be transmission, medium and vibration, however reception is missing, so no sound, just like a tree fall in the forest makes no sound without someone to hear it. In outer space, even if the eager beaver receiver was present, willing, and able, without a medium to carry the vibration there would be no sound.

This should be easy to proove....talking about it doesn't make sense.
Show me proof.

This isn't proof, but ....

http://www.treehugger.com/natural-scien ... ar-it.html
User avatar
Kunga
Posts: 2333
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Kunga »

Also, a recording device doesn't have ears or sense perceptions, but it will record sound and visuals. I think though that everything is sentient, even if it isn't what we would call biological life. Atoms make up everything material, all things are a living energy whether it's animal or machine.

This interconnectedness...this interdependance...is one living thing....all connected.....all sentient..nothing is separate...
User avatar
Cahoot
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:02 am

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Cahoot »

The microphone only exists because it is human in absentia, thus like the cow it is a receiver of vibration, which is a condition of sound.
User avatar
Kunga
Posts: 2333
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Kunga »

Ok, how is it that I can hear myself talking in my head, when there are no sound waves being produced ?
Also can hear whatever song/music I desire, without soundwaves ....
I can even make the sound of a tree falling in a forest ...
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

  • If a man speaks in the forest, and there is no woman there to hear him, is he still wrong?" -- Maura O'Connell
I used to think the tree-sound-forest question was stemming from some ancient oriental source but it's acutally originally from the Irish Bishop George Berkeley. According to the wiki page the closest Tibetian Buddhist idea would be something like Sangpo wrote: "Appearances are one's own mind. From the beginning, mind's nature is free from the extremes of elaboration". Or perhaps even better from an old TV sketch: ""If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, where are they?".
User avatar
Cahoot
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:02 am

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Cahoot »

Ok, how is it that I can hear myself talking in my head, when there are no sound waves being produced ?
Also can hear whatever song/music I desire, without soundwaves ....
I can even make the sound of a tree falling in a forest ...
Could be the cause ...
User avatar
Kunga
Posts: 2333
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Kunga »

Love the humour :)

I think part of the problem is, when one thinks conventionally and then realizes the ultimate. Conventionally there are sound waves , but ultimately there is no one to hear it. And yes, Cahoot, it does make sense that if sound waves are produced, to have a receptor is nessesarry to hear them, but it's so abstract to me that this is the case, as with all senses, it needs the object of sense conciousness to recive it (eyes, ears, nose, etc).

This is a good read :

http://www.vipassanadhura.com/whatis.htm
User avatar
Cahoot
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:02 am

Re: The cow Te ching

Post by Cahoot »

In the life of Gautama Buddha we notice him constantly saying that he is the twenty-fifth Buddha. The twenty-four before him are unknown to history, although the Buddha known to history must have built upon foundations laid by them. The highest men are calm, silent and unknown. They are the men who really know the power of thought; they are sure that even if they go into a cave and close the door and simply think five true thoughts and then pass away, these five thoughts of theirs will live throughout eternity. Indeed such thoughts of theirs will penetrate through the mountains, cross the oceans and travel through the world. They will enter deep into human hearts and expression in the workings of human life … The Buddhas and the Christs will go from place to place preaching these truths … These Sattvika men are too near the Lord to be active and to fight, to be working, struggling, preaching and doing good, as they say, here on earth to humanity …”

- Swami Vivekenanda
Locked