What is consciousness?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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divine focus
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Re: What is consciousness?

Post by divine focus »

movingalways wrote:
df: The Creating Universal One and Whole is not independent of its individual focuses, but it has a consciousness that is its own. It doesn't become aware of everything one thing at a time. Time only exists in physical reality; non-physically there is no time. It's all simultaneous.
How is the concept of "it has a consciousness that is its own" any different than the concept of "being independent of"?
You could say independent of, if you don't mean unaffected by.
It grows by creating, not by discovering. It is the nature of everything to be and have more and more.
But where does the having more and more come from except from that which "It" has already created? If you reason it through, you'll see that "having more" and "creating something" is a delusion, perhaps the granddaddy of all delusions. There is nothing more to have, but there is always more to discover.
It creates continuously. It didn't create infinitely in some past and now is discovering all that it created.
df: Right now as I type, words are flowing into my awareness. (Effort-fully typed) Now they've stopped. (Free-flowing) While waiting for something else to say, I am not thinking of what to say. There can be intellectualizing, but there's no need to add anything to what I'm saying.
When you say that there's no need to add anything to what you're saying, are you saying that for the sake of clarity, at no time when you write or speak do you change what you've written or said?
I may add something. It's like, there's an intuition of what there is to say, and of what there is to add, if anything. Sometimes there's an accessing of subjective reasoning, which is like your attention moving to a still but communicative dimension of mind, and then more words emerging.
df: It's not my objective (conscious) choice whether to intellectualize or not. It just happens or it doesn't.
You're caught in the dualism of subjectivity and objectivity, your vision of the non-physical and the physical.
It's just the way it is. Physical reality emerges from the non-physical. They're not the same. *shrug*
I have read some material from the website in your signature and believe I understand why, not from speculation, but from experience. I once was absorbed in channeled "non-physical-via-the-physical teachings" (books only, no groups or meetings or spreading of the teachings) particularly those of Seth and ? of The Course in Miracles. What caused me to stop was this question: why am I depending on someone else's wise entity - where, what for the love of god, was my own? In other words, I was ready to jettison second-hand wisdom for first-hand wisdom.
The way it works is you are not separate. Your "wise entity" leads you to information that it could provide itself, but it has no qualms about how it provides it. It's all one thing, ultimately, so whether you get it directly or indirectly, it doesn't matter.
For the sake of clarity, are you Paul or Joanne Helfrich, the owners of the Elias Forum website?
No.
eliasforum.org/digests.html
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is consciousness?

Post by Pam Seeback »

df: It creates continuously. It didn't create infinitely in some past and now is discovering all that it created.
I am not referring to "some past" when I refer to creation, I am referring what has always been and always will be. Let me try again. Let's say a soul or essence desires to experience bliss. I believe you would call this the objectivity of bliss. In order for this experience of bliss to happen, the object or form bliss must already be present (created) in consciousness. This why no spirit can be experientially omnipresent, the objective forms of creation require, to use your term, a focusing of attention in order to be subjectively "known." The distinction between creating and discovering/experiencing to me is important, as it is the difference between knowing that whatever you desire to experience is (already) "there" and not knowing it is (already) "there." There are many experiences I have not had in the totality of consciousness, but I do know that when I am ready, they are there for my discovery. Another way of putting it is that in order for consciousness to unfold its expansion of awareness, there must be principles in place to allow for this unfolding.
I may add something. It's like, there's an intuition of what there is to say, and of what there is to add, if anything. Sometimes there's an accessing of subjective reasoning, which is like your attention moving to a still but communicative dimension of mind, and then more words emerging.
I am not a Christian, but I do enjoy biblical metaphors. The one that comes to mind here is "the living word."
The way it works is you are not separate. Your "wise entity" leads you to information that it could provide itself, but it has no qualms about how it provides it. It's all one thing, ultimately, so whether you get it directly or indirectly, it doesn't matter.
This makes sense but ultimately getting it directly is "the real thing."
jufa
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Re: What is consciousness?

Post by jufa »

When you hear the word "consciousness," what does it mean to you?
The question is: "What is consciousness?" I am consciousness. And every individual living is consciousness. For we are the ever renewing, ever unfolding expression of infinite life, in this parenthesis of time, space, distance and matte. And should anyone be able to explain what they are, and how they fit into the great expand of awareness, they will have explained, for all to say aha, I once was blind, but now I see. Until this comes to pass, all said by anyone is pure speculation.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
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Cahoot
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Re: What is consciousness?

Post by Cahoot »

Everyone has experienced “regaining consciousness.”

First there is non-dual awareness. Awareness, but with no object of awareness. This is pleasant, peaceful, quiet, timeless. Change from this is practically a dimensional change.

Then there is a shift. A reconnection with the senses. Awareness of any sensory imperatives such as thirst or injury, discomfort, etc. Sensory awareness. This is awareness with an object of awareness, namely awareness of the sense information, which is a state of duality. This is the moment of regaining consciousness.

Based on the evidence of common experience, we can say that consciousness is dualistic, consciousness requires awareness, and awareness does not require consciousness.
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is consciousness?

Post by Pam Seeback »

jufa wrote:
When you hear the word "consciousness," what does it mean to you?
The question is: "What is consciousness?" I am consciousness. And every individual living is consciousness. For we are the ever renewing, ever unfolding expression of infinite life, in this parenthesis of time, space, distance and matte. And should anyone be able to explain what they are, and how they fit into the great expand of awareness, they will have explained, for all to say aha, I once was blind, but now I see. Until this comes to pass, all said by anyone is pure speculation.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
I was blind but now I see that I cannot know what consciousness is because I am the moment-by-moment conscience (subjective-objective awareness) of consciousness. This is my absoluteness and to find it and to know it is to be free from the idle and conflicting thinking pattern that is intellectual or emotional speculation.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: What is consciousness?

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

jufa wrote: Until this comes to pass, all said by anyone is pure speculation.
You might still misunderstand: everything said by anyone remains speculation. The only way to see and listen is to truly go blind and deaf.
movingalways wrote:I was blind but now I see that I cannot know what consciousness is because I am the moment-by-moment conscience (subjective-objective awareness) of consciousness. This is my absoluteness and to find it and to know it is to be free from the idle and conflicting thinking pattern that is intellectual or emotional speculation.
You "cannot know what consciousness is " and yet you know enough about consciousness to exclaim with quite some precision that you are "the moment-by-moment conscience (subjective-objective awareness) of consciousness"?

This is not free from any intellectual or emotional conflict upon investigation. But nothing really ever is.
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is consciousness?

Post by Pam Seeback »

First there is no mountain, then there is. One finds their enlightened life when they know both things are true and they step into this wisdom. In the life of "is" how is there room for speculation and conflict?
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Kunga
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Re: What is consciousness?

Post by Kunga »

movingalways wrote:First there is no mountain, then there is.
It goes:

First there is a mountain
then there is no mountain
then there is


First you see things conventionally
Then you see things ultimately
Then you see the mountain,( knowing it as it truely is...empty of inherent existence.)


He explains it better :

First seeing mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers means seeing them as fixed and solid entities in and of themselves.

Later seeing them as not mountains and not rivers means we understand that neither mountains nor rivers exist in and of themselves, that they are empty of inherent existence and made up of other beings that are also empty of inherent existence. For instance, there is nothing within a mountain that we can pull out and say, "this is mountain," or, "this is what makes a mountain a mountain." Mountains are made up of rocks, trees, grass, snow, water, rivers, ponds, lakes, insects, birds, animals, etc., etc., etc., and all of these things are made up of other things. So, there are no mountains and no rivers.

When we continue to practice, and our wisdom eye is fully opened, we realize that mountains are indeed mountains, and rivers are indeed rivers, for there is a mountain there and a river over here. However, we deeply understand that both "mountain" and "river" are merely words that we use to describe the conditioned phenomena in front of us. Neither phenomena is a fixed nor permanent entity that exists in and of itself and possesses inherent existence as "mountain," or "river." In other words we experience and understand their true nature, and the true nature of all beings.

Hands palm-to-palm,

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