If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it be?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Bobo
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Re: If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it

Post by Bobo »

DvR wrote:Death is mostly about the illusion that things could be really eliminated (subtracted) from other things. Or that something would be left, some substrate, if one would eliminate, meditate or subtract enough, to "stop breathing", like the otherworldly. But in the games we actually play, with life as stake, as betting against being, there is indeed nothing ever left; death always immanent.
If there is an illusion of death it would make sense to talk about it being eliminated, the death of death. And it would come close to that substratum, as something that would be left.
Bobo
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Re: If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it

Post by Bobo »

To disambiguate:

Of things we deny inherent existence (as thigs exist relatively) and (therefore) of it we affirm existence.

Of all things we deny existence (as it doesn't exist comparatively to something outside), and affirm inherent existence (as it can be derived with certainty from the existence, and non-inherent existence, of things).

Then I introduce the the beyond of things, of which neither existence or inherent existence can be affirmed, thus being regarded as a matter of faith.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Bobo wrote:Then I introduce the the beyond of things, of which neither existence or inherent existence can be affirmed, thus being regarded as a matter of faith.
And like all faiths, it can act like a sacred "game", sometimes even actual betting ones fate or afterlife status. But it's certainly beyond things in every way. Death is not law here but acts more like a game rule, and like all rules it's mainly immanent, arbitrary, circumscriptive but also subverting, sometimes even reversing meaning and law. Death therefore is also a facet of the broader philosophical (and hardly just the physical) notions of change and rebirth. But it's not an absolute as death acts only relative to its own sphere: there's nothing really universal about it. Yes, "everybody" dies but even scientifically this is not a meaningful remark as there is not even a scientific definition of the impression of death under discussion here. Scientists would probably have to give a "don't know" because they don't deal with the personal spheres.

This is an interesting remark of Baudrillard: " The inscription of rules in a sphere without a beyond is as difficult to understand as the idea of a finite universe. For us the finite is always set against the infinite; but the sphere of games is neither finite or infinite - transfinite perhaps. It has its own finite contours, with which it resists the infinity of analytic space ... independent of every logic of cause and effect, origin and end".

The seductive game here maps quite well to the "wheel" of suffering with its never-ending revolutions. Now it also becomes clear why Buddha might have said "life is dukkha" and "death is dukkha" and yet points to cessation within the universal, constant and infinite: the "Law". It's not meant as simple description of a cure though, it's meant as description of how things are, for those interested in wider and truthful views.
Bobo
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Re: If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it

Post by Bobo »

Of games we can have games with:
- Finite rules and finite results.
- Finite rules and infinite results.
- Infinite rules.

The finite/infinite contrast can be seen as a game if we take the following premisse as a rule of the game (the basis for the contrast):
- That the Finite is not Infinite, and that the Infinite is not Finite. That is, that existence in not inherent and that the inherent is not an existence.

In games we would have the rules and the results. Finite games, would need to have finite "scientific" rules in order to have finite "scientific" results.
If we deny death the finite meaning (as there's no death of death), the infinite meaning (as a substratum - somewhat finite), and deny the contradiction of death being both finite and infinite by the premisse (a rule), we can only talk of it as being neither finite or infinite, the beyond of things.

The distinction between the finite (existence) and the infinite (inherent existence) is a premisse, and the result is neither finite or infinite.
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Re: If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it

Post by nobox »

Is there a true question here if you were to eliminate one thing you would need to eliminate all traces of everything that preceeds that one thing everything leading to that one thing and all traces of the past expirences that involve that one thing in essence to remove one thing you would have to remove yourself and all others with knowledge of that one thing
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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie »

Life itself.
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Bobo
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Re: If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it

Post by Bobo »

Trick question - you can't eliminate anything without eliminating it all.
If anything I would challenge this assertion. You can 'eliminate' everything except for things that have inherent existence. Every relative existence can be eliminated, and it is more certain that it will.

I can appreciate the idea of determinism though, that if anything were to change your very self would be subject to change too, even to the point of non-existance.

But what would hang to existence (and deny elimination) so much? Would it not be the ego whispering "without me there would be no you". The very thing that has to be eliminated threatening the elimination of it all.

"Everything that goes up must come down."
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Tomas
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Re: If you could eliminate one thing from life what would it

Post by Tomas »

RZoo wrote: 1. -- Trick question - you can't eliminate anything without eliminating it all.

1. a --Although that's a good question - would you happily eliminate it all?

2. -- Let's discuss the human bias against life.

2. a --Almost everyone seems to want to eliminate something, be it violence, lying, fallacies, poverty, or so on.

3. -- Why is everyone so pessimistic?

3. a -- Why is life viewed as "imperfect" and "flawed" (metaphysical nonsense, but it reveals a bias)?

3. b -- Is it likely that these people will eventually destroy humanity along their quest?
1. -- The number nine theory.

1.a -- It's coming soon enough.

2. -- Rock on

2.a -- It's a free country .. I'm within my rights.

3. -- People are born,
they (supposedly) grow up
are they normal growups?
depends their upbringing,
both parent

3.a -- We all lie, cheat and steal
some of us have connections that
clear the table of opposition
life is short
makes the best of it
for yourself
because
you are the only one here

3.b -- Humanity is here for the long haul
however
beware the reptilian shape shifters
not in a creepy way
but the long term health of the human genes.
Half the population takes prescriptions legally / illegally
Smokes commercial tobacco
Eats fast food three times a week
eats green grass (herb, vegetable, seaweed etc) that have been sprayed with chemicals
blah, bla, bla

Edited for bracket creep ;-)

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