Current state of the World!

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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MyNameIsA
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Current state of the World!

Post by MyNameIsA »

Yes, this is a issue that has been troubling me for sometime.

The world has already hit a number of crisis which it can't resolve. This ranges from over-population to polution. Though it is impossible to blame it on a single person, I feel it is fair to blame it upon the countries that rob and steal the wealth from less fortunate countries and use up 90% of the worlds natural resources. Though it is a collective contribution has subconscious implications as people throughtout the world consciously contribute to the gradual destruction of the world in many forms whilst blaming themselves anf beating themselves up for it. However aside from the imminent destruction of our eco system, we find ridiculous animosity between countries portraying a mask labeling "freedom", while a rotten political agenda lurks behind. Thousands of people are being butchered over political agendas. Aside from this we find a new generation of idiocy, where technology has overcome our rationality where dependency is upon materialistic pleasures while ignoring the compassiona, love and intamacy of others. A generation that is unable to fathem his surrounding, and turns a blind eye to his starving inner-self and autonomy and thrives in a cyclical capitalistic system; thus leading to suicide and depression. We have a world that holds the concept of individualism and nhilism to the extent they manipulate and take advantage to have their own way. This is reinforced through many "movies" "music videos" where idiotic and futile attempts to hoard money and sell drugs along with "banging" guns is encouraged and glamorized.

The way the world is heading, with the people that are meant to care and maintain the world, but end up destroying the Earth and the minds of those within it. Someone please tell me there is a bright side to this, because I cannot see the silver linning. What is going to happen to our future and what is going to happen to our humanity. I need answers
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

The answers you'll get around here could easily be summarized as: people have constructed a world for their "self" to live in, including the body of information, news, history and future projections which has little to nothing to do with, well, lets call it reality. This imaginary world, since its foundation is seriously lacking substance, is naturally always on the verge of collapse, a projected collapse being simultaneously very true and completely false.. The world is literally (and literary!) always ending and in many ways it really is. This is the way the human mind has been developing since the dawn of reason: building wings on the long way down.

Then again, I don't want to brush all the concerns you mention into a waste basket called "illusion" or randomness like some would do. But my "answer" would be to wake up to a world which is "by design" always ending or going to shit and people continuously struggling to resist this "ending" or "downfall" or even push a kind of change which is just make-believe. But I hear you, it's hard to digest all the imagery and noise out there, the scale, the absurdity, the flood of nonsense, all the divine mixed with profane. The world is turning inside out.

Best advice is to work on your digestion. Calming the acid. Otherwise which guarantee one has that the issues are seen clearly when all the energy is drawn to passing it all?
Last edited by Diebert van Rhijn on Mon May 12, 2014 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The world is literary
Hi Fred.

All thinking breaks down to character and plot.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »


Good catch! It's literally and literary since the word keeps becoming flesh into material being, after all. Went back and edited this in.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Dennis Mahar »

literally and literary
barrister for the defence?

the word keeps becoming flesh into material being, after all
thought, word, deed.
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MyNameIsA
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by MyNameIsA »

Hmm the collapse of the superficial ideologies the world revolves around is possible. However it is evident that humanity may be on the brink of self awareness and overcome the capalistic dogma that pollutes the world, but it is also possible that once authoritarian leadership has been abolished, humanity succumbs to a form of anarchy and nhilism where morality and self-decency is lost. Not every single person can see past the veil that blinds us, let alone hold responsibility for the actions they do and foresee the repercussions. Also if we were to reach a golden age, that would require a universal philosophy maybe formed upon mathematical basis, as then the findings to some extent would be irrefutable. Even then we find through Quantum Physics that the deeper you go into discovering reality the more abscure and ambiguous reality gets. However leaving that a aside does anyone have any ideas on awakening the consciousness of the entire world haha and binding a sense of unity amongst people.
Last edited by MyNameIsA on Mon May 12, 2014 5:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Cahoot
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Cahoot »

Compared to what? George has some things to say about that.

George Carlin - Saving the Planet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

+

4 Groups that Gotta Go - George Carlin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmJ2snsLxWw
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MyNameIsA
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by MyNameIsA »

Very Funny
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Cahoot
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Cahoot »

Views are important, and elementary. Hyperbolic proposals of integrating a view into living, sometimes disparagingly labeled “entertainment,” is a step beyond elementary, that actually does integrate via the payoff of cash, which is the capitalistic determinate of worth. The view sung to do re mi.

George Carlin - Dealing With Homelessness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilipDBclxRc
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ardy
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by ardy »

The problem with your view A is that it has been dictated by artists since the start of the 1960's and manifested itself throughout the Western world. If you speak to people from 3rd world countries their view is that life is improving.

On the positive side:

- Food production is on the rise due to more CO2 in the atmosphere
- Technology (net, radio, TV) is educating billions of people but lots more could be done if we attacked corruption in governments.
- Population is recognised as a major problem but is not given the focus it needs due to silly ideas like "global warming" taking a large amount of research funds. I was told a few weeks ago that nobody really knows what the worlds population is and it is a guess.
- Humans will either fix the problem or nature will and the good news is that if it is a virus that kills off many, they never kill more than is necessary to maintain the species. If it is a meteor then it might be the end of humanity but the world will just start again with new species.

If you spend your life living in a world where you think all is bad then all is bad. Are you starving? are you sick? do you have nowhere to shelter. If you answer NO to all of these then give yourself a Western world uppercut. You are living a delusion brought about by stupid artists with a fixation on failure and cliches to burn. You have too many fruits of this life and have the leisure and riches to think like this.
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MyNameIsA
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by MyNameIsA »

Actually I was raised in poverty not in the western world but in Syhlet, I had pneumonia and was on the brink of death I still have vivid memories, my parents had to beg beg for money. So I don't think you should just assume I have only experienced oneside of the world. Anyway I feel no-one on this forum really understands where I'm getting at. No point explaining in depth if you think Im some delusional person who views the world in a pessimistic form, because thats like reading the blurb of a book and understanding the depth of information. However for those who do understand what I'm suggesting and what is required then I feel a greater discussion would be needed on the cognitive and theoretical construct of the universe and its broader implications. Before you accuse me of being a arrogant person who thinks he knows everything, well you may be right but I do acknowledge my naive mind cannot fathom every philosophical concept(contradiction or not really tests if you truly understand)
Pam Seeback
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Pam Seeback »

The way the world is heading, with the people that are meant to care and maintain the world, but end up destroying the Earth and the minds of those within it. Someone please tell me there is a bright side to this, because I cannot see the silver linning. What is going to happen to our future and what is going to happen to our humanity. I need answers.
A, is it reasonable to expect six billion minds or spirits or souls that are caused to distinguish between things to 'get along?' I'm amazed that thinking man gets along as well as he does. Dennis calls it character and plot, and seeing it this way puts it into perspective, but at the heart of character and plot is existence's will to be.

People often romanticize nature, but at its heart, of its will to survive, nature is a territorial, lusting cannibal. At least man has been caused to love and reason to counter his animal nature. I don't say these things to sugar coat the clash of wills in the world, but to point out that as Rome wasn't built in a day, man as a totality won't rise above his animal nature until each individual man makes that journey. Not to be forgotten to counter impatience with it all is that enlightenment is an individual experience.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

MyNameIsA wrote:However leaving that a aside does anyone have any ideas on awakening the consciousness of the entire world haha and binding a sense of unity amongst people.
It's not clear why you think the whole world should be "united" on anything at all. Although I'm not saying that I oppose it either. But what if for example if it would be like some land animal, wanting the whole world to be land without seas and oceans? Only the larger view would show how life on land depends in many ways on those bodies of water to remain. What I'm saying is that you have to make sure you know what it is what you're wishing. Otherwise we'd all be like that time-traveler who kept going back to the past to change something only to find the future getting worse!

Your points of view are appreciated though but your description of the world did sound pessimistic and based on some very specific perspective formed by what you value and have experienced so far. And it's good to have a perspective like that and start questioning more, start disagreeing more. But since this is a philosophy forum and you asked for "answers", all you'll get probably is more questions and even your questioning will be questioned. :-)

As for "any greater discussion on the cognitive and theoretical construct of the universe and its broader implications", do you mean with mathematical evidence, empirical, scientific understandings? But you already wrote "the deeper you go into discovering reality the more obscure and ambiguous reality gets". What if that would be the rule? Your quest for knowledge would result in more and more ambiguity of everything and nothing would be left existing? So perhaps one shouldn't talk only about the constructs but also about the human relation to the construct and its perception of how things come to be (for him)?
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ardy
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by ardy »

MyNameIsA wrote:Actually I was raised in poverty not in the western world but in Syhlet, I had pneumonia and was on the brink of death I still have vivid memories, my parents had to beg beg for money. So I don't think you should just assume I have only experienced oneside of the world. Anyway I feel no-one on this forum really understands where I'm getting at. No point explaining in depth if you think Im some delusional person who views the world in a pessimistic form, because thats like reading the blurb of a book and understanding the depth of information. However for those who do understand what I'm suggesting and what is required then I feel a greater discussion would be needed on the cognitive and theoretical construct of the universe and its broader implications. Before you accuse me of being a arrogant person who thinks he knows everything, well you may be right but I do acknowledge my naive mind cannot fathom every philosophical concept(contradiction or not really tests if you truly understand)
I can point you too many scientific discussions that contradict the idea that humans are destroying the earth, although I don't thinks anyone knows for sure. A stupid idea anyway, what they mean is, they are destroying this world for humans. Who cares about humans? We are just a blip in the history of this planet and we will be gone in a short earth time. What we need to do is work to understand who the hell we are and then if you do make it to that point, spend your life helping others.

I too was raised in poverty and food was not always on the table. Still I had a great childhood in total security, playing with all my mates who were pretty much the same as me. Movingalways and Diebert have given excellent answers to your question. I am sorry I cannot add to it as it is not my world view and you will get no acceptance from me about the dire state of life.
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Cahoot
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Cahoot »

I need answers
Until the fundamental question is answered, all other questions are ephemeral jabberwocky.
Music by Alan Silvestri
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MyNameIsA
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by MyNameIsA »

Hmm I do realise my error sorry people I guess my enviroment has a huge factor upon the way I percieve the world. After realising my obscure and inconsistant opinions and statements I figured I have a lot of reading to do to cover up my ignorance :/ Can anyone give me a beginners&intermediate guide/book names to existentialist philosophy.
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ardy
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by ardy »

MyNameIsA wrote:Hmm I do realise my error sorry people I guess my enviroment has a huge factor upon the way I percieve the world. After realising my obscure and inconsistant opinions and statements I figured I have a lot of reading to do to cover up my ignorance :/ Can anyone give me a beginners&intermediate guide/book names to existentialist philosophy.
I have a strong bent on existentialism but I find that Zen study covers both my interest in Zen and my natural bent to existentialist philosophy.

Anything by Camus if you want EP only for descriptions rather than esoterics (The Outsider - just about named me!) but for Zen I would recommend Zen Flesh, Zen Bones.
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Cahoot
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Cahoot »

For a written intellectual exploration of existence beyond the narrow limitations that define philosophical existentialism, read Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.

*

“Experience, however sublime, is not the real thing. By its very nature it comes and goes. Self-realization is not an acquisition. It is more of the nature of understanding. Once arrived at, it cannot be lost. On the other hand, consciousness is changeful, flowing, undergoing transformation from moment to moment. Do not hold on to consciousness and its contents. Consciousness held, ceases. To try to perpetuate a flash of insight, or a burst of happiness is destructive of what it wants to preserve. What comes must go. The permanent is beyond all comings and goings. Go to the root of all experience, to the sense of being. Beyond being and not-being lies the immensity of the real. Try and try again.”

- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
http://www.maharajnisargadatta.com/I_Am_That.pdf
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ardy
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by ardy »

Cahoot wrote:For a written intellectual exploration of existence beyond the narrow limitations that define philosophical existentialism, read Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.

*

“Experience, however sublime, is not the real thing. By its very nature it comes and goes. Self-realization is not an acquisition. It is more of the nature of understanding. Once arrived at, it cannot be lost. On the other hand, consciousness is changeful, flowing, undergoing transformation from moment to moment. Do not hold on to consciousness and its contents. Consciousness held, ceases. To try to perpetuate a flash of insight, or a burst of happiness is destructive of what it wants to preserve. What comes must go. The permanent is beyond all comings and goings. Go to the root of all experience, to the sense of being. Beyond being and not-being lies the immensity of the real. Try and try again.”

- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
http://www.maharajnisargadatta.com/I_Am_That.pdf
Thanks for that it looks interesting. I also enjoy the almost reference books of Shantanand Saraswati his utube stuff is interesting and different. Here he discusses enlightenment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1YXUfs9lcw
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Cahoot
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Cahoot »

Thanks for that it looks interesting. I also enjoy the almost reference books of Shantanand Saraswati his utube stuff is interesting and different. Here he discusses enlightenment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1YXUfs9lcw
His observations relating enlightenment to both responsibility and detachment from the compulsion and consequence of inevitable desire echo J. Krishnamurti’s observation: “If you live peacefully you will have no problem at all. You may be imprisoned because you refuse to join the army or shot because you refuse to fight - but that is not a problem; you will be shot. It is extraordinarily important to understand this.” – Freedom from the Known

Outside of direct experience, knowledge of the world is a series of inferences based on news reports. News reports are selected and shaped by agendas, influenced by forces asserted by the powers in control of society. Paradoxically, though technological advances of recent decades have expanded the opportunities for critical thinking by increasing the number of news sources, people still trend towards the easy nostrums of propaganda talking points … global warming, overpopulation, frankenfood, anti-immunization, ludditism, etc. Though there are occasional flashes of truth from the blades, swords of inferential critical thinking seem to be increasingly ineffective against the corrosive, targetless fog of indifference. Example: Gowdy.
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Cahoot
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Cahoot »

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Cahoot
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Re: Current state of the World ...

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SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

"What remains for One
who sees the non-existence
of a phenomenal world created
by the mere thought of a name?"
-Ashtavakra


As Dennis pointed out, a story with a character and a plot. You'll come up with a new story next week A.
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

[quote="Cahoot"]
“Experience, however sublime, is not the real thing. By its very nature it comes and goes. Self-realization is not an acquisition. It is more of the nature of understanding. Once arrived at, it cannot be lost. On the other hand, consciousness is changeful, flowing, undergoing transformation from moment to moment. Do not hold on to consciousness and its contents. Consciousness held, ceases. To try to perpetuate a flash of insight, or a burst of happiness is destructive of what it wants to preserve. What comes must go. The permanent is beyond all comings and goings. Go to the root of all experience, to the sense of being. Beyond being and not-being lies the immensity of the real. Try and try again.”

- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj


Great quote, I should be more surprised as to how similar the words of sages hundreds of years apart are in phrasing, but I guess I'm too used to it.

'The permanent is beyond all comings and goings. Go to the root of all experience, to the sense of being. Beyond being and not-being lies the immensity of the real.'

'Since before time and space were,
the Tao is.
It is beyond is and is not.
How do I know this is true?
I look inside myself and see'
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Current state of the World!

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

SeekerOfWisdom wrote: You'll come up with a new story next week A.
Said the turtle to the hare before retreating within his safe shell of non-existence :-)

The stories are part of who we are and have to be wisely addressed when there's a good moment to address them. At that moment a story can as important as the earth or the sky, hunger and thirst. The "mountain" before us, being just a "story" too, still needs to be climbed at times. Climbing needs preparation and skill. We are for ever in motion because of story lines.
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