Enlightened! Really?
Re: Enlightened! Really?
I never did see that movie Cahoot...but yes...poor poor thing...
the tao that can be named.. is not the eternal tao...
here comes the silence again....
the ineffable silence....
in·ef·fa·ble
inˈefəbəl/Submit
adjective
adjective: ineffable
1.
too great or extreme to be expressed or described in words.
"the ineffable natural beauty of the Everglades"
synonyms: indescribable, inexpressible, beyond words, beyond description, begging description; indefinable, unutterable, untold, unimaginable; overwhelming, breathtaking, awesome, marvelous, wonderful, staggering, amazing
"the ineffable, surging joy of the Beatles"
unutterable, not to be uttered, not to be spoken, unmentionable, forbidden, taboo
"the ineffable name of God"
not to be uttered.
"the ineffable Hebrew name that gentiles write as Jehovah"
the tao that can be named.. is not the eternal tao...
here comes the silence again....
the ineffable silence....
in·ef·fa·ble
inˈefəbəl/Submit
adjective
adjective: ineffable
1.
too great or extreme to be expressed or described in words.
"the ineffable natural beauty of the Everglades"
synonyms: indescribable, inexpressible, beyond words, beyond description, begging description; indefinable, unutterable, untold, unimaginable; overwhelming, breathtaking, awesome, marvelous, wonderful, staggering, amazing
"the ineffable, surging joy of the Beatles"
unutterable, not to be uttered, not to be spoken, unmentionable, forbidden, taboo
"the ineffable name of God"
not to be uttered.
"the ineffable Hebrew name that gentiles write as Jehovah"
- Diebert van Rhijn
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- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm
Re: Enlightened! Really?
And you select a random place on the Internet for that? Most people go to marriage counseling when they lost communication with their husband. If you cannot share core values (like some shared reality) then you're spitting against the wind.Kunyab wrote:Sorry Diebert, it is just that I feel that our world have grown so apart. I living in this earth, whereas he has gone off to a different reality. I thought that other people who are more familiar with these things can help me drill some sense into him.
Well, test him out and live temporally elsewhere. I'm sure he's enlightened enough to cope for a while or see the error of his way (if any). You appear as a worried servant here, not as proud individual with your own life. There might be a connection to his behavior if it's theoretical or too idealistic. Perhaps you can become a profound challenge for him. And it might do everyone a favor. But I'm not sure you're telling the whole story. Spouses would not look for "advice" this way, it would be extremely odd but I don't mind playing along with the story. Why are his personal beliefs even a problem to be solved or understood?I think that his enlightenment is too theoretical as you say. As you I also feel that asceticism is integral to enlightenment.
Re: Enlightened! Really?
Kunga its not like there is anything wrong, I am just concerned. After all one does not want near and dear ones to be delusional.Kunga wrote:I don't know...I can't imagine what Kunyab is going through...
I always dreamed of having an Enlightened yogi to be my husband...
First of all I am very skeptical by nature, things such as enlightenment seem too mythical to be true.
Secondly it is hard to imagine the effects of enlightenment over time. Will he become like a Buddha or Ramana and leave the family.
I should be perhaps. But spiritual pursuits can lead one to be less attached and engaged in the world. This has not happened with him so far but I fear for it.I feel Kunyab should try to be more understanding and supportive. It is rare to find anyone truely interested in truth and spiritual matters in this world.
He is very calm and caring but he treats emotions as disturbances which obstruct clarity. To me emotions are an integral part of being in a family.One thing for sure...if he is Enlightened...he should be more loving and supportive of her .
She is very frustrated with him.
Yes, we don't know the whole story....poor Kunyab comes here seeking advice/help.
He says all is one, so then why would he care for me and our family more than the neighbors say.
A saint may not make a good householder.
The gist is this I feel that either he is enlightened or not. If not then he is delusional which is a cause for concern.
If yes then a worldly life is quite at odds with enlightenment and I worry for the future.
Maybe I am too much of a worrier.
My Blog: http://goo.gl/Uc1Axo
Re: Enlightened! Really?
Yes, he is your husband, and you should be.Kunyab wrote: I am just concerned.
I'm sure this is hard to talk about with friends and family ...thus you felt the need to come here . Not all here are qualified to give you advice...including myself. I am just a romantic, with a little bit of level-headedness.
As far as emotions go...they can be obstacles in some cases...sometimes they are useful too. Women tend to display their emotions more easily than men, men keep their emotions inside...until they burst in a fit of anger or violence.
In many traditions it is crucial to have a teacher or guide when on the path to Enlightenment. They can help keep things in check...as the ego is a trickster. Sadly enough it is very hard to find Enlightened or qualified teachers, most people prefer to go it alone, as their egos couldn't take what it takes to maintain a student-disciple relationship.
Anyways......you seem to be very level-headed, pragmatic/logical. My heart goes out to you !
_/\_
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
on contact the only name or thought is 'true friend'.the ineffable silence....
buddy.
very nice.
projection into mind.
mind blowing.
Spirit.
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
Kunga,
she opens up an Inquiry into her husband.
lays a charge against him.
she doesn't flesh out the situation.
we have to lead the witness to get at it.
still unclear except she's not in the Joy Chair which means an error in thinking.
basically it's a concern about victimhood, a possible perp (hubby/enlightenment/herbie goes bananas) and looking for rescue.
your heart goes out to her because you are rescuer-oriented in any drama.
why bruise the heart for what is conditional?
herbie goes bananas!
WTF!
what about me!
(subtext)
she opens up an Inquiry into her husband.
lays a charge against him.
she doesn't flesh out the situation.
we have to lead the witness to get at it.
still unclear except she's not in the Joy Chair which means an error in thinking.
basically it's a concern about victimhood, a possible perp (hubby/enlightenment/herbie goes bananas) and looking for rescue.
your heart goes out to her because you are rescuer-oriented in any drama.
why bruise the heart for what is conditional?
herbie goes bananas!
WTF!
what about me!
(subtext)
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
Bingo. And when you give the something a name or names, you come to life! It is who or what you are in that very moment. Conscious living, conscious being. This way you discover for yourself, directly, via mirror wisdom, what 'something' is right for you and what 'something' is not right for you. Know Thyself. Can't do it without concepts (conditions) of I am.Kunga wrote:Yes...but there still remains something that exists, even when nothing inherently exists.
!
This only happens when all concepts of I am that have been given to one by others (parents, teachers, friends, enemies) are purged outta the naming system. When you get to this point, all the fuss about inherent and emptiness falls away. I am That I am. Simple.
Re: Enlightened! Really?
It’s a stand-alone clip. Sums up the movie.Gunga wrote:I never did see that movie Cahoot...but yes...“Poor, Poor Thing”
But, serious question. Why all the periods?
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
a little cork bobbing on the ocean of consciousness.I am That I am
in the grip of.
Re: Enlightened! Really?
Cahoot wrote:Why all the periods?
Because I'm... fertile
- Diebert van Rhijn
- Posts: 6469
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm
Re: Enlightened! Really?
Bloody funny! Or too much trailing open-endedness. Female thinking....?Kunga wrote:Cahoot wrote:Why all the periods?
Because I'm... fertile
Re: Enlightened! Really?
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Bloody funny! Or too much trailing open-endedness. Female thinking....?Kunga wrote:Cahoot wrote:Why all the periods?
Because I'm... fertile
Fe = Iron
Ironmale thinking ?
:)
When talking....don't you pause ?
This is the natural rhythm of my voice...when I type..it's how I talk....the "trailing off" is simply how speech dissolves after it is spoken......if it's a breathy iron male thing...i don't know......or maybe it's just a bad habit.......atleastidontwritelikejamesjoycehahaha........
- Diebert van Rhijn
- Posts: 6469
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm
Re: Enlightened! Really?
Interesting, I looked it up. the word woman comes from wif-man. A male person would be "wer-man". But fem comes from femina literally "she who suckles," from root of felare "to suck, suckle".Kunga wrote:Fe = Iron
Ironmale thinking ?
You're sorry you even mentioned it now I suppose.
For me it's odd trying to write how I talk. Just as it's odd for me the idea that I'd talk how I think. They seem to be all completely different worlds to me. That's just me perhaps but generally it's easier for others to understand you if some degree of formality and structure is being applied. As rule of thumb any consistent disorganized and stream of consciousness writing serves the ego, the writer and hardly anything more than that.When talking....don't you pause ? This is the natural rhythm of my voice...when I type..it's how I talk....the "trailing off" is simply how speech dissolves after it is spoken......if it's a breathy iron male thing...i don't know......or maybe it's just a bad habit.......atleastidontwritelikejamesjoycehahaha........
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
Yep, that sounds about right.Dennis Mahar wrote:a little cork bobbing on the ocean of consciousness.I am That I am
in the grip of.
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
Trust in the Infinite.
What is conditional is unreliable and a possibility of wonderfulness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxgNgOMEDtM[url][/url]
What is conditional is unreliable and a possibility of wonderfulness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxgNgOMEDtM[url][/url]
Re: Enlightened! Really?
LOLDiebert van Rhijn wrote:You're sorry you even mentioned it now I suppose.
Dosn't really bother me one way or another.
I'll try not to use ellipses so much. I do write as I think and speak. I do write "stream-of-consciousness"
It will be a challenge for me.
I guess I don't feel self conscious about how I write.
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
Diebert likes to mother.
bliss.
bliss.
Re: Enlightened! Really?
I think what you’re sensing is just a diminishing of,Dennis Mahar wrote:Diebert likes to mother.
bliss.
A deficit of …
For the purpose of …
I always read the dot dot dot thing as an implicit writer’s assertion of, “I could just say so much more …,” And when seeing the dots I would think, maybe that’s not true. I mean, let it rip from time to time, then you don't have to wonder, or even imagine. This is the realm of the written word, such are the burdens and limitations of critical thinking, but then again, masterpieces from the hand of man are always in frames …
Re: Enlightened! Really?
Fairly simple to test at some level anyway. Get him to write a poem defining his enlightenment then post it here. Not sure there is anyone enlightened here either and if you don't get solid replies then send it to a major Buddhist monastery addressed to the Abbott and see what they have to say.Kunyab wrote:So my husband claims to be enlightened. He had always been interested in spiritual stuff and some of this is part of our traditions as Hindus. However, enlightenment is a very rare occurence and mostly confined to people who have gone through a very strong spiritual experience or have a completely detached ascetic life.
None of which has happened in his case.
I find it very hard to digest that he is enlightened now.
Searching more on this stuff I came to this forum, and ask what you guys think of him, is he just fooling himself?
He has been writing about this stuff at vedantademystified at the blogspot site. This site will not allow me to post the URL believing that I am a spammer.
I am just interested in knowing if what he says seems true or just a fiction his mind has invented to escape into a convenient reality.
If he gets stuck give him this as one of many examples:
Without Name and Form
Well versed in the Buddha way,
I go the non-Way
Without abandoning my
Ordinary person's affairs.
The conditioned and
Name-and-form,
All are flowers in the sky.
Nameless and formless,
I leave birth-and-death.
P'ang Yün (龐蘊 Hõ Un)
OR maybe this one might be more appropriate:
Suchness
The wind traverses the vast sky,
clouds emerge from the mountains;
Feelings of enlightenment and things of the world
are of no concern at all.
Zen Master Keizan Jõkin (瑩山紹瑾 1268-1325)
Last edited by ardy on Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
It's a kind of an art to get out of the personality.
Diebert's act looks like 'to that end' using oppose, oppose, oppose.
Housekeeping.
His salient point aforementioned is he takes his own scalp first.
Hi Jinx.
Diebert's act looks like 'to that end' using oppose, oppose, oppose.
Housekeeping.
His salient point aforementioned is he takes his own scalp first.
Hi Jinx.
Re: Enlightened! Really?
That’s interesting. Eventually thoughtful people speak as they write. Does the enlightened one speak as he writes? If so, we could premise that enlightenment and thoughtfulness are somehow related. Perhaps, by logic?Diebert wrote:For me it's odd trying to write how I talk. Just as it's odd for me the idea that I'd talk how I think. They seem to be all completely different worlds to me. That's just me perhaps but generally it's easier for others to understand you if some degree of formality and structure is being applied. As rule of thumb any consistent disorganized and stream of consciousness writing serves the ego, the writer and hardly anything more than that.
- Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
We are what we write? Self-consciousness is hard and not always helpful to prosper as doubt creeps in. Self-consciousness can be a bliss destroyer just as easily as destroyer of self-ignorance. There's something here I'd call "sufficiency" as one can go easily overboard with streaming as well as with structures and elaboration. Most people are a bit off kilter.Kunga wrote:I guess I don't feel self conscious about how I write.
- Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightened! Really?
Of course one could deliver written or studied lines but that's not the same as talking in the broader sense as I had in mind including any casual, spontaneous and non-verbal elements which Kunga referred to.Cahoot wrote:Eventually thoughtful people speak as they write.
Re: Enlightened! Really?
Pychyl (2009) notes distinctions between mindfulness and self-consciousness. Speaking as one writes would be more along the lines of mindfulness, which is often a slower, more deliberate way of speaking, as one is actually writing with the spoken word as opposed to making sounds associated with random thoughts floating into awareness. This is different than speaking self-consciously, which in the extreme could result in a stammer.Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Of course one could deliver written or studied lines but that's not the same as talking in the broader sense as I had in mind including any casual, spontaneous and non-verbal elements which Kunga referred to.Cahoot wrote:Eventually thoughtful people speak as they write.
The quality stream-of-consciousness writing by a Joyce or Kerouac could well be a product of mindfulness, whereas egoistic indulgence would be a different breed of writing.
Reference
Pychyl, T. (2009). Mindfulness and task persistence: not all self-awareness is a good thing. Psychology Today. Referenced from http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/don ... good-thing