What is spirituality?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Cahoot
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Cahoot »

Tor__Hershman wrote:A misnomer.
Finding an ocean in the drop.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Being is prior to religion
religion is after the fact.
religion is within religion only
it refers only to itself
it is noise.

stories round the campfire
dread of nothing
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Tor__Hershman
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Tor__Hershman »

Cahoot wrote:
Tor__Hershman wrote:A misnomer.
Finding an ocean in the drop.
Did someone say "DROP?"
Yeah, it was Cahoot.
Well, I don' t give a good ca-hoot if'in don't see the drop in this video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzY2bVsZK5s
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

So , you see Spirituality rests on a basis of designation Elisabeth because you have provided one.
therefore it's conditional.
imputing mind (to place significance upon) is on the job as always.
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Being is prior to religion
religion is after the fact.
religion is within religion only
it refers only to itself
it is noise.

stories round the campfire
dread of nothing
Being's presence is always in union with its things, concealed and revealed. This is why a thing cannot refer only to itself or be within itself only or why being cannot be before its things or its things be after it (being).

Being's thinking (thing-ing) is for the moment only but its momentary status does not negate the truth (the absolute nature) of its things.
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ardy
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by ardy »

Rift Zone wrote:No. I'm here to assert spirituality is a fundamental human trait. Actually, a trait of sentience. Spirituality is the mark of humanity being born into sentience. But we don't have to concern ourselves with that.

Suffice it say if that's the extent of your association or understanding of spirituality then I might be in the wrong place.

Perhaps I should tell you where continents came from.

Or that neutrons are the universe's ultimate power source. -it what powers supernova, magnetars and quasars. Quasars are actually full spectrum lasers, except its pure energy in resonance... Somehow, I question if this site could keep up with me at all.
It is interesting that you think that spirituality is a fundamental trait. I do not agree, it seems that most people don't give a rats about it, they are too busy surviving or thinking about the new house, car or work crap. If you are suggesting that it is flowing underneath their understanding then I have some hope that it is true, it is just that we will never know.

I was a member of the "School of Philosophy' for a few years and over the 80 years they have been around they claim that only 11% are interested in this stuff, and of that 11%, only 15% (guess cant remember) of that number will continue to be interested in spirituality.

That is the reason you and I are here. There are not a lot of people you can discuss this stuff with. Typing is not the same as live discussions but in the absence of anything else, it will do.
Last edited by ardy on Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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ardy
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by ardy »

Tor__Hershman wrote:
Cahoot wrote:
Tor__Hershman wrote:A misnomer.
Finding an ocean in the drop.
Did someone say "DROP?"
Yeah, it was Cahoot.
Well, I don' t give a good ca-hoot if'in don't see the drop in this video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzY2bVsZK5s
Tor - I struggled with the video was it supposed to be a joke?
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Being's presence is always in union with its things, concealed and revealed. This is why a thing cannot refer only to itself or be within itself only or why being cannot be before its things or its things be after it (being).

Being's thinking (thing-ing) is for the moment only but its momentary status does not negate the truth (the absolute nature) of its things.
Being is always/already a priori to facticity, historicality.
changing, evolving
building possibilities brick by brick
this thought rising out of last thought, such is train
generator
mighty civilisations put together painstakingly part by part and like a house of cards swept aside unceremoniosly
ever freshening

back to the drawing board.
blank pages for colouring in
childs play

what are you protecting 'colour my world'?

mathematics or an instance of knowledge-that as Godel points out, ultimately refers only to itself as does religion.

know-how is before knowledge-that which turns out to be castles-in-the-air.

Clearly, Spirituality is conditional on the discrimination of particular behaviours with regard to consequences arising.
That constitutes 'knowledge-that' or script.
Many carry 'knowledge-that' and make that the foundation completely forgetting know-how or primordial Being generating such.

chains chains
my baby (project) has got me locked up in chains
and they ain't the kind you can see

geddit?

wouldn't be dead for quids.
samsara is nirvana,
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

Clearly we have contrasting views of spirituality.
Dennis: Being is always/already a priori to facticity, historicality.
changing, evolving
building possibilities brick by brick
this thought rising out of last thought, such is train
generator
mighty civilisations put together painstakingly part by part and like a house of cards swept aside unceremoniosly
ever freshening

back to the drawing board.
blank pages for colouring in
childs play
You claim being goes back to the drawing board to colour in blank pages once its house of cards is swept aside but in the same breath you acknowledge this thought arises out of the last thought. Which is it? Blank screen or continuance of causality?
what are you protecting 'colour my world'?
Hmmm, does the crayon of bliss ring a bell?
mathematics or an instance of knowledge-that as Godel points out, ultimately refers only to itself as does religion.
Is being not present during the thinking of mathematics and the thinking of religion? Where I see the leak in your wisdom faucet is that you acknowledge the generating aspect of being but do not acknowledge the understanding (reasoning) aspect of being. To me, the life (wisdom) of being exists in its understanding, not in its generating.
know-how is before knowledge-that which turns out to be castles-in-the-air.
Here you reveal the core difference in our understanding of causality. Where you understand knowledge-of-being to mean nothing, I understand knowledge-of-being to mean something.
Clearly, Spirituality is conditional on the discrimination of particular behaviours with regard to consequences arising.
That constitutes 'knowledge-that' or script.
Many carry 'knowledge-that' and make that the foundation completely forgetting know-how or primordial Being generating such.

chains chains
my baby (project) has got me locked up in chains
and they ain't the kind you can see

geddit?

wouldn't be dead for quids.
samsara is nirvana,
There it is, generating but no mention of understanding. And to be clear, reasoning/understanding things is not the same thing as carrying things. As I see it your protection of bliss is a perfect example of thing-carrying.

Interesting is it not that what you view as death I view as life and vice versa.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

See how you are generating?
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dennis, I concede, you the the Generator King.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

How about God is a serial killer.
:0
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dennis Mahar wrote:How about God is a serial killer.
:0
It's all bliss says you, so why bother asking this question, or any question for that matter. Generating, generating, generating, generating, generating, generating...nihilism.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Why nihilism?
You attribute characteristics to God.
Generator.

surely you have felt the hideous face of God at some point and stacked the deck in his favour in your ruminations.
It's wonderful to have a nice Parent by golly by gosh.
Trust in the Infinite.

don't wanna be the fish that John West rejected.
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

Why nihilism?
You attribute characteristics to God.
Generator.
Attributing characteristics (plural) to God is reasoning the things (plural) of God. Bliss generating is not plural. This is the problem with trying to communicate with you. No matter what is said, it's all bliss. According to you, no matter what God does, God deserves bliss. If God cures cancer, God is the bliss guy. If God serial-rapes, God is the bliss guy. If viewing God as only and always good even as "he" savagely rapes a ten year old child isn't nihilistic, I don't know what is.
surely you have felt the hideous face of God at some point and stacked the deck in his favour in your ruminations.
I am ever conscious of the hideous face of God. However, the stacking of the deck in his favour is a Dennis-thing, not a Pam-thing.
It's wonderful to have a nice Parent by golly by gosh.
Trust in the Infinite.
Your serial raping bliss Daddy is all yours.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The point is you are the author of God.
Objectifying, splitting off, making finite with characteristics, properties, functions.
a plaything to suit your own ends.
Self-parenting.

Our caused consciousness does not 'see' ultimate reality.
It fills in the blanks per abstraction.

little architects at the drawing board working up a blueprint.

ineffable silence.
wonderful mystery.
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

The point is you are the author of God.
Objectifying, splitting off, making finite with characteristics, properties, functions.
a plaything to suit your own ends.
Self-parenting.

Our caused consciousness does not 'see' ultimate reality.
It fills in the blanks per abstraction.

little architects at the drawing board working up a blueprint.

ineffable silence.
wonderful mystery.
The point is you have erroneously placed the "you" filter in front of God's face. The little architect you have constructed called "Dennis" is your ignorance of being God.

It is precisely because consciousness cannot see ultimate reality that it is ever and always being ultimate reality. Which is why no moment of being is a total mystery to being. Consciousness sees the reality of chair. The moment value or worth is applied to the reality of chair (good or evil) consciousness knows Itself, becomes real to Itself. If it likes the chair for whatever reason it applies, it likes Itself. If it dislikes the chair for whatever reason it applies, It dislikes Itself. This is what is meant by experiencing things directly. This is the moral law of karma at work. By your account of wonder and mystery, your filter of bliss, direct experience of things is not possible.

This does not mean there is no element of mystery present as I am reasons That (consciousness of ultimate reality). The mystery that is present is the mystery of the unknown that exists between thoughts of being made known. This mystery is not one of wonder, but simply of resting, of trusting oneself to reveal oneself. The moment the thought arrives, however, the mystery of I am is solved and reality has been revealed. A reality that is not an imputation, is not a blueprint, is not a plaything to suit one's ends, is not a story to defend but reality. I'm curious. why do you prefer to be an architect of fragmented meaningless things to being the reality, the meaning of God?

The other mystery for subjective consciousness of course is the mystery of other subjective units of consciousness. I can never KNOW you any more than you can KNOW me. We always only relate to one another's revealed I am.

I now understand why you have your blanket of bliss and I do not.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Working the clay up in to a little pot.
It is the emptiness inside that holds what you want (you are your causes).
imputing mind.

enlightened being is imputed on emptiness/bliss.

what are you up to?
what are you holding dear for protection?

what are you loving?
rockin' the bubby in the cradle.
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

Working the clay up in to a little pot.
It is the emptiness inside that holds what you want (you are your causes).
imputing mind.
I am the effects of my causes. Period. Simple. Done deal.

I don't need or want that extra layer of "imputing mind" you keep sending my way.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Imputing mind.
that's what you are.

generating wholes out of parts.
names and forms.

enlightened being is imputed on emptiness/bliss.
because emptiness cannot be refuted.


every time you write you are speaking of causes/conditions.
living inside labels.
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

You are an imputing mind, I am a thinking being.

I do not live inside labels, I use names to express my being.

When I write I am not speaking of causes and conditions as if they are outside of my consciousness, I am the causality expressing itself.
enlightened being is imputed on emptiness/bliss.
because emptiness cannot be refuted.
Your idea of enlightened being being imputed on emptiness/bliss can indeed be refuted. Many times posters here have tried to reason with you as to why emptiness and bliss are not one and the same thing, but you refuse to reason your position, you simply impute that it is so. This is why reasoning is the way one moves beyond their "being stuck" in a labelled existence such as "God is love" or "emptiness is bliss."
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The object to be negated appears to exist independently and self-sufficiently.
It appears to exist independent of your consciousness.

You impute it exists from its own side.
Thus your thoughts think you.
Up shit creek without a paddle.

Bliss.
'I am not, I will not be.
I have not, I will not have.
This frightens all children,
And kills fear in the wise.'

Selfhood is imputed on parts and is a misconception.
Get over it.

Describing this non-dual experience in words is not really possible, as language is based on duality and contrasts.

You think contrasts exist inherently.
They are imputed.
Pam Seeback
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Pam Seeback »

You think contrasts exist inherently.
They are imputed.
No contrast, no consciousness.
Last edited by Pam Seeback on Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: What is spirituality?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Vacuum cleaner.
duh.
Locked