Naive believers

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Urizen
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Naive believers

Post by Urizen »

If a man cannot make much sense of religious dogmas, it may mean that he has the intelligence for a deeper understanding of those dogmas than what has hitherto been given him. The rejection of religion in its popular forms often means that one is prepared to embrace religion from a higher perspective. Those who affect a contempt for the naivete of regular religious people, are pretenders to some higher perspective; their contempt is born of ignorance and vanity. Those who have truly pierced into the heart of things, have tremendous admiration for the simple beiever, because he glorifies the Absolute exactly as he should, that is, according to his own nature. He is full of the same spiritual desire that animates the seeker of wisdom and the lover of beauty. He should never be mocked. As Blake says,

He who mocks the infant's faith
Shall be mock'd in age and death.
He who shall teach the child to doubt
The rotting grave shall ne'er get out.
He who respects the infant's faith
Triumphs over Hell and Death.
The child's Toys and the old man's Reasons
Are the fruits of the two seasons.

Not only atheists, but a lot of Western 'Buddhists', exhibit their vanity to the world by affecting an air of enlighenment, while sneering at the simple believer with his literalist or moralistic understanding of Christianity (a religion far closer to real Buddhism than their own distortion of Buddhism). But at least the simple believer is oriented towards the truth, acts in unison with it by practising it, and thus participates in the truth even without understanding it all very deeply; which cannot be said of pseudo-Buddhists and other pretenders to enlightenment. Their ignorance runs far deeper than religious naivete.
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ardy
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:44 am

Re: Naive believers

Post by ardy »

Urizen wrote:If a man cannot make much sense of religious dogmas, it may mean that he has the intelligence for a deeper understanding of those dogmas than what has hitherto been given him. The rejection of religion in its popular forms often means that one is prepared to embrace religion from a higher perspective. Those who affect a contempt for the naivete of regular religious people, are pretenders to some higher perspective; their contempt is born of ignorance and vanity. Those who have truly pierced into the heart of things, have tremendous admiration for the simple beiever, because he glorifies the Absolute exactly as he should, that is, according to his own nature. He is full of the same spiritual desire that animates the seeker of wisdom and the lover of beauty. He should never be mocked. As Blake says,

He who mocks the infant's faith
Shall be mock'd in age and death.
He who shall teach the child to doubt
The rotting grave shall ne'er get out.
He who respects the infant's faith
Triumphs over Hell and Death.
The child's Toys and the old man's Reasons
Are the fruits of the two seasons.

Not only atheists, but a lot of Western 'Buddhists', exhibit their vanity to the world by affecting an air of enlighenment, while sneering at the simple believer with his literalist or moralistic understanding of Christianity (a religion far closer to real Buddhism than their own distortion of Buddhism). But at least the simple believer is oriented towards the truth, acts in unison with it by practising it, and thus participates in the truth even without understanding it all very deeply; which cannot be said of pseudo-Buddhists and other pretenders to enlightenment. Their ignorance runs far deeper than religious naivete.
I agree with this post almost completely. The arrogance of some, even a few here, early on the road, is a form of madness that ensures they get no further until they drop those attitudes.

The problem I have is that religious dogma can drive some groups to violence from their own form of arrogance ie the Muslims belief that their religion holds a simpler and stronger faith than Christianity. It is not the faith but the dogma that both feeds [those simpler souls] and causes outbreaks of wars and oppression.

When you have total belief that what you hold is the ONLY truth and all other religions are an anathema, that's when the trouble begins.

How do you griddle this dogma out of religions? - I have not one single clue - you got any ideas?
Dennis Mahar
Posts: 4082
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Re: Naive believers

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Since beginningless time,
Self-cherishing.
protection racket.

don't fool yourself.
windhawk
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:47 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Naive believers

Post by windhawk »

Thank, You for the post. As our intellect soars, we are confronted with the fact that the very same intelligence is causing a very rapid destruction of our world. To complicate matters by zealotry is foolish.

I have my beliefs, others have theirs, the shipwreck of reason should be self-apparent to all. A leap of faith is necessary, and no wise man should think they know the mind of God.
Dennis Mahar
Posts: 4082
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Re: Naive believers

Post by Dennis Mahar »

I can't see what your problem is.
the only thing that ever gets mentioned is causes/conditions.
emptiness cannot be refuted.
a belief is a condition.
a justifier for a belief is a condition.

everything is amazingly clear fortunately.
SeekerOfWisdom
Posts: 2336
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:23 pm

Re: Naive believers

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

Urizen wrote:the Absolute exactly as he should, that is, according to his own nature. He is full of the same spiritual desire that animates the seeker of wisdom and the lover of beauty.

Well, I'm right here, not sure where loverofbeauty is, but I disagree.
Seeing as you said one should have admiration for those who blindly accept the imaginations of others, or their own, and pray to fake deities. (Just one of the delusions we are apparently supposed to admire.)
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