Christians and me:

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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jupiviv
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Christians and me:

Post by jupiviv »

Here's a discussion I just had on a blog run by a Christian:

http://voxday.blogspot.in/2014/01/the-f ... 5439348383

Oh wait, he just threatened to ban me. Goodbye cruel woooorldddd!!! My dying words:
Christian wrote:All right. Now you've established that you're an outright liar, Jupta. Any further comments on this thread will be deleted. These are all your comments in response to the accurate observation that science did not invent invent the alphabet, the printing press, or the typewriter.

1. "They weren't professional scientists in the modern sense, but they certainly needed a scientific approach to invent those things."

2. "You'd need a logical and methodical (probably in that order) approach to create a language, which is what a scientific approach is."

3. "I said a scientific approach is logical and methodical, not that any logical and methodical approach to anything whatsoever (like morality, or science itself) is "science"."

You are observably intellectually dishonest and while I have no problem with atheists posting here, I do not permit intellectually dishonest people of any creed to join the discourse here. If you wish to comment here again, I expect you to email me an apology to the readers of this blog as well as an admission that you lied and a promise not to do so again.

And this doesn't even get into the fact that your statements, in addition to being dishonest, are simply false. Languages are not developed out of either a scientific approach or a logical and methodical approach.
I wrote:Well, I didn't expect this discussion to get far. But before you ban me, I should point this out: saying that a scientific approach is logical and methodical is not the same as saying that all logical and methodical approaches are practices of formal science according to the academic definition of the word "science."

To call this a lie would be either idiotic or deliberately obtuse. I'm guessing it is the latter in your case, which doesn't speak well for your own intellectual honesty. Plank, eye, brother, and all that.

BTW, LOL @ italicised part of his response
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Russell Parr
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by Russell Parr »

I didn't read the whole thing, but it seems obvious enough that any discussion regarding logic and science that doesn't fit within their paradigm, i.e. basic layman/neo-atheist understanding of logic and science, will be simply dismissed, and rather violently.

A couple of my favorite lines:
I will not publicly debate anyone who does not provide documented proof of possessing, at a minumum, a Mensa-level IQ
So 1.9999... with nine extended to infinity doesn't exist? I've got news for you. We call it 2. You don't even understand mathematics or the concept of infinity, do you?
Cold Cave
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by Cold Cave »

It's like NePlus Ultra all over again.

His logic may be bad, but his Christianity is even worse.

"So is Christianity. Now we see as though through a glass, darkly. By their fruits you shall know them. Etc."

I must have missed those bible verses that talked about calling people drooling idiots as one of the fruits of the spirit.

funny that he uses that terribly paraphrased verse before going full on verbal abusive.
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ardy
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by ardy »

I find it amazing that the world is accepting more and more dogma and swallowing it at a rate that is breathtaking. The Green movement is my favourite. Founded by hippies who disliked authority it has evolved to be the most powerful user of authority for those that don't toe the Greens line. If you disbelieve me go to your local council and see the list of fines and see how many are based on Green issues. The latest in my area is - 'Thou shalt not clean out under your fence posts without a green expert reviewing the weeds under your posts in case there is an endangered plant there" fine for non compliance $750.

The Christian movement is certainly a holder of a record to compete with the Muslims in terms of doctrinaire dogma. They went through a period of laxness and lost massive support, but are finding that hard Christianity offers a better path, along with gospel singing and faith healing.

If you lived in America you could get a knock on the door at night and get a huge surprise.
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jupiviv
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by jupiviv »

ardy wrote:The Christian movement is certainly a holder of a record to compete with the Muslims in terms of doctrinaire dogma. They went through a period of laxness and lost massive support, but are finding that hard Christianity offers a better path, along with gospel singing and faith healing.
As economic times get harder, religion will once gain a foothold in western societies. Christians have a lot to look forward to. Unless of course someone happens to establish a new popular religion à la Nazi-style ethnic occultism that doesn't have any place for Christianity, which is not a possibility to be dismissed.
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ardy
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by ardy »

jupiviv wrote:
ardy wrote:The Christian movement is certainly a holder of a record to compete with the Muslims in terms of doctrinaire dogma. They went through a period of laxness and lost massive support, but are finding that hard Christianity offers a better path, along with gospel singing and faith healing.
As economic times get harder, religion will once gain a foothold in western societies. Christians have a lot to look forward to. Unless of course someone happens to establish a new popular religion à la Nazi-style ethnic occultism that doesn't have any place for Christianity, which is not a possibility to be dismissed.
Yes jupviv there are different times coming and religion is going to grow as the Western world collapses. I believe the age of enlightenment and science is over, its death started in the 60's and a new dark age is coming. Of course religion always flowers in ignorance and darkness.

Still we build the world we want, and the world we depict has been a horror story of collapse, war and starvation... As proof see any science fiction movie in the last 30 years [except 2001]. Read any article that discusses our Western way of life and they are all full of apologies for our success, no interest in advancing our civilisation and bowing to minorities and other races and ignoring the majority.

It struck me the other day that there is a large proportion of our Western societies that hate the West and love the idea of going back to a simpler time, they are dismissive of all technology whilst being users. In other words our way is done and dusted it is just waiting.
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Cahoot
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by Cahoot »

"Western policy has helped shape this grim fate for Middle Eastern Christians — and Western silence allows it to continue."

http://theweek.com//article/index/25540 ... -one-cares

*

The media people and many of the people who watch the media get riled when reminded that their former grip on what does or does not enter public consciousness, as interpretations of events, is no longer absolute. The result? Dogma gets presented as logical proof and is reported as such. A lot of people know this stinks. So petty tyrants emerge to keep the faith, and what faith invariably breeds is obvious. In such a world people even start to view science as a belief, and get all belligerent.
deceit
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by deceit »

thankfully the universe is entirely subjective. Everybody's talking about different time scales. Near scale it doesn't look so good. But the immediate future has never looked that great.

It's only ever out of a larger historic account that you understand that things are changing under nobodies control. To suggest that anyone is in control, religious or otherwise that has any true feathering in human affairs is superstitious at best. Through our captive minds we hold the universe in a light that suffocates. Our universe isn't caved with in a skull. The absolute includes the conception that infinite is itself under causality. This is irrational. However so far no ones can predict our sporadic lecherous selves other than advances in technology.

Music needs to eliminate religion and we are beginning to move in the right direction.
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ardy
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by ardy »

Cahoot wrote:"Western policy has helped shape this grim fate for Middle Eastern Christians — and Western silence allows it to continue."

http://theweek.com//article/index/25540 ... -one-cares

*

The media people and many of the people who watch the media get riled when reminded that their former grip on what does or does not enter public consciousness, as interpretations of events, is no longer absolute. The result? Dogma gets presented as logical proof and is reported as such. A lot of people know this stinks. So petty tyrants emerge to keep the faith, and what faith invariably breeds is obvious. In such a world people even start to view science as a belief, and get all belligerent.
Yes many are looking for substitutes for religion to fill the void that our rational thinking has taken us to. Apart from science [global warming being a classic example] the Green movement is the great substitute. Terms like "Mother Earth" and "We must save the planet" as if the planet gives a stuff about our sense and senselessness.

It will only take a few hundred years after our departure from this planet to find it hard to see much evidence of our ever being here. In planetary terms a few thousand is nothing, and there would be almost no signs of us ever being here.

So we have taken away the man in the sky and replaced him with a fictitious thinking and feeling planet. Well done humanity that proves that religion has no place in our view of the world.

For me I would rather have a religion with a set of rules about how to live than live in a world where people [near where I live] will buy kids heaps of cuddly toys but won't feed them, clothe, discipline or educate them properly. The planet can look after itself, our amazing ego knows no bounds in terms of where it will take us.
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jupiviv
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by jupiviv »

ardy wrote:For me I would rather have a religion with a set of rules about how to live than live in a world where people [near where I live] will buy kids heaps of cuddly toys but won't feed them, clothe, discipline or educate them properly. The planet can look after itself, our amazing ego knows no bounds in terms of where it will take us.
Have you ever wondered why every generation of teen rebels, as if by magic, turns into disapproving parents? For the same reason, the world of heteronomous religious morality/order, as if by magic, turns into a world of mindless pleasure-seeking.

A woman from the crowd said to him, "Blessed are the womb which bore you & the breasts which nourished you." He said to her, "Blessed are those who have heard the word of the Father & have truly kept it. For there will be days when you will say, 'Blessed are the womb which has not conceived & the breasts which have not given milk".
windhawk
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by windhawk »

Ya' know, some of us stupid Christians managed to get our Doctorates. Read my posts; I'm not angry, but pretty pissed off.
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Cahoot
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by Cahoot »

Why?
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ardy
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Re: Christians and me:

Post by ardy »

windhawk wrote:Ya' know, some of us stupid Christians managed to get our Doctorates. Read my posts; I'm not angry, but pretty pissed off.
Some very smart people I know are Christians but to say that Christianity blossoms in an age of science would be to laugh in the face of reality.

The simplest things in Christianity are hard for me these days. Heaven and Hell are a logistical nightmare to me.

Don't get me wrong I do not think a move to a time that is based on religion, mystery and magic is all bad. Things change very slowly during those 'dark' ages, people feel far more comfortable in a world where little appears to change, the illusion of permanence covers most things.

I have some faith in Christ but not so much in Christians. During my working life I was worked over a couple of times for 20-40k and both were fervent Christians, one of them would wander around Canberra (Australian capitol city) with a bill board asking people to REPENT! Yet he had no qualms about lying to steal money from me.

I treat Christians the way I treat all strangers 'you have yet to prove yourself' combined with 'I will trust you until you prove you cannot be trusted'.

I would rather live in a world where there was honesty rather than Christianity or any religion for that matter. But that is a stupid dream due to our monkey nature.
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