Emergence of the Primal Conciousness - Mind before Matter

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Time_seeker
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Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:28 pm

Emergence of the Primal Conciousness - Mind before Matter

Post by Time_seeker »

Greetings! This is my 1st post here on GF, so please indulge me if I've breached a rule !

Here is a reasoning about why conciousness pre-existed matter:

If we consider evolution, there was a point when complex proteins started assembling in the primal ocean, forming the 1st prototypes of what we call life.

They then went on to feed, reproduce and the life cycle starts. The question is here :

Where did the impulse for survival come from? Either instinct spontaneoulsy manifested by the assembly of certain amino acids OR ''instinct'' and ensuing consciousness where always latent properties of physical matter.

In case A ( spontaneous manifestation of will ), such a thing could be described as a ''miracle'' or divine intervention, because something was created out of nothing (or rather a new property emerged in the result, that was unexistant in the building blocks --- proteins become a cell, instinct is generated )

Or case B - Consciousness was always present in matter in a latent form and needed specific requirements to manifest.

Personnaly I would opt for option B because science has taught us that something is not created out of nothing, therefore infinite pre-existence makes more sense than spontaneous generation.

From this point, we can further regress to the big bang:

What came first? Matter, or consciousness? Cosmologists seem to say the universe existed in a dense soup of particles pre-big bang but then, what was the first state of the universe? From what we know matter is physical, solid, and consciousness unpalpable so here is the final question ... Is consciousness the emergent property of matter, or is matter the emergent property of consciousness?

Many possible answers :

1) Consciousness and matter are both eternal - consciousness was ever present in either a diffused or superior state.
2) Matter is eternal and consciousness emerged ( this makes no sense in my POV but oh well, it's possible)
3) Consciousness is eternal and matter manifested as emergent property ( this makes sense by the nature of consciousness, as it can manifest what is not)

Option 3 seems more viable to me, the remaining question is the nature of this primal consciousness - organized (intellingent) with an intent - or - a chaotic mass of dreams with many possible manifestations.

Here, to me, the answer lies in what we can feel as humans...

We can experience joy, sadness, - a range of emotions...

But if we had to choose and eternal state, of course, bliss would be our top choice.

But if conciousness pre-existed matter, then there is a possibility this consciousness ''felt''. Did it feel constant bliss? Or grief? A mix of emotions? But if ''It'' experienced multiple simultaneous emotions, maybe the adventure of 'matter'' was a way to domesticate those feelings in a way that only only some of them might be accessible at a given time ( yes, this theory is funny, the primal consciousness is going crazy so it shuts down into the silence of matter only the reemerge slowly) Let's call it the
Universe in Therapy theory.

Or ''It'' felt and had the choice of what it thought and manifested. If you could choose a state, what would you choose? That's right, absolute bliss. In this case the primal consciousness is intelligent, lives in bliss and can dominate what it manifests either with good intentions... or bad ones.

And that's my theory on God^. Remaining question here is whether it is a benevolent ruler or a grand scale sadist. Let's face it, we all wonder about that.

When I look at babies I can't help but think that we live in a universe meant for good. Then I look at industries, abuses and state of the world and wonder if we aren't all ruled by an evil entity after all. Oh well.

Waiting for your replies, eager to discuss this!

Time_Seeker

Also, this is my first post so I am sorry if I've breached a rule of etiquette.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Emergence of the Primal Conciousness - Mind before Matte

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Hello Time Seeker. You're doing fine so far, don't worry about it.

As for your analysis, my interest is in the jump you make from "common" organization of molecules into proteins toward living organisms and then again to a "spontaneous" or "miraculous" manifestation of will or survival. And then you make another step which doesn't seem clear to me either: the jump between self-replication, repair (survival) or consciousness as mental property.

Because why wouldn't you wonder just as much about the formation of stars and galaxies, the creation of molecules, organic molecules and their combining? This is before proteins even. Isn't it arbitrary to think this one element is the mystery here? I think the selection should be justified. If we'd take the Big Bang as valid theory, what's the "chance" on that? How to even calculate this in a way that's understandable to us, the laymen? So my general remark here is about arbitrariness.

There are other questions about entropy or "life" as process doing something funny with entropy. Of course for every clump of organic molecules turning into proteins and form some memory device (like DNA) or a replicator there are trillions of situations where this doesn't happen at all. The thing is that if life would occur spontaneously and replicate, it can maintain itself for a while, making it look like inevitable from that point on that it's there. So your question about consciousness is also about life. But your question about life could be extended to "why is something there at all". Like matter, or energy, several forces interacting, some star imploding and so on.

It's clear that to you consciousness and will to survive seem like unique properties which you want to explain but again the question: what made you select those from a universe which largely seems void of what we'd call life or consciousness. According to common observation at least. Then again, everything starts with observation.
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