How Often and how do you Meditate?

[ardy]

I am enjoying my time here and the discussions get interesting in a words only manner.

My interest is in Zen and meditation. I think meditation is important in terms of coming to an understanding of who you are. I am not sure if it is a vehicle to anything else!

So tell me how often do you meditate and what method do you use? Please explain any experiences you have had during meditation.

I won't be making any judgements and nothing hangs from this.

I run a small (3) group of meditators on Wednesday nights. We sit for 30mins using mantras [started them off counting but moved).

Apart form this I meditate about once a week extra but use mindfulness most times during the day. I used to meditate twice a day for 30 mins but stopped about 15 years ago for my own reasons. Have been back at it for the last year seriously but have always used meditation as a stress relief or dealing with any form of difficulty.

古寺寒山上，In an ancient temple on a cold mountain,
遠鐘揚好風. a distant chime spreads on a fair wind.
聲餘月樹動，What's left of its ringing stirs the moon and trees,
響盡霜天空.its sound exhausted in the frosty empty sky.
永夜一禪子，Through the long night, a lone contemplative,
泠然心境中.25 in a crisp-chilled frame of mind.

[Pam Seeback]

Of my experience, only insight meditation is fruitful if one is seeking to know who they really are. I enrolled in a meditation class many years ago, it was trippy and cool and relaxing, perhaps it "paved the way" for future insight meditations, I don't know.

I have never scheduled insight meditations, the burning question of "who am I" has always been my pressing, ever-present guide.

[Kunga]

I used to do sitting meditation [under a tree inside my house] :)
One day I had, what they call "Kundalini Rising".
It was like a thick slow honey, moving very deeply, like a snake,up my spine, to the top of my head.
I had never known or read anything previously to this experience.
I told my teacher about it [I have a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, lineage of the Mahasiddha Virupa (Sakya Tradition) ]
He never explained anything to me, so I had to research this phenomena by myself.
I stopped the sitting meditation.
I lost interest.
Maybe I will start again someday....I don't know.....
I've lost interest in everything that once interested me.
Except this :) Genius Forum :)
I guess it has become my practice.
And I see how unenlightened I am.

[ardy]

Of my experience, only insight meditation is fruitful if one is seeking to know who they really are. I enrolled in a meditation class many years ago, it was trippy and cool and relaxing, perhaps it "paved the way" for future insight meditations, I don't know.

I have never scheduled insight meditations, the burning question of "who am I" has always been my pressing, ever-present guide.

HI MovingAlways: Yes insightful meditation is useful. In fact I don't think it matters too much what you do as long as it is based on introspection and allows the mind to stop jumping from topic to topic.

[ardy]

I used to do sitting meditation [under a tree inside my house] :)
One day I had, what they call "Kundalini Rising".
It was like a thick slow honey, moving very deeply, like a snake,up my spine, to the top of my head.
I had never known or read anything previously to this experience.
I told my teacher about it [I have a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, lineage of the Mahasiddha Virupa (Sakya Tradition) ]
He never explained anything to me, so I had to research this phenomena by myself.
I stopped the sitting meditation.
I lost interest.
Maybe I will start again someday....I don't know.....
I've lost interest in everything that once interested me.
Except this :) Genius Forum :)
I guess it has become my practice.
And I see how unenlightened I am.

Hi Kunga - you are one of millions who started into meditation and bounced out after an experience. Similar thing happened to me where I felt I had to choose between my job or a trip to a monastery. The job won out, although when I stopped meditation it felt like I was walking in shit as I had moved away from the mess that 'normal' life is....Regards

[Pam Seeback]

Of my experience, only insight meditation is fruitful if one is seeking to know who they really are. I enrolled in a meditation class many years ago, it was trippy and cool and relaxing, perhaps it "paved the way" for future insight meditations, I don't know.

I have never scheduled insight meditations, the burning question of "who am I" has always been my pressing, ever-present guide.

HI MovingAlways: Yes insightful meditation is useful. In fact I don't think it matters too much what you do as long as it is based on introspection and allows the mind to stop jumping from topic to topic.

Taming of the mind is indeed critical for introspection. Introspection of what is the revealing question.

[Kunga]

Ardy...

After that initial experience, I tried to continue with meditation...(sitting/following my breath)....I do not want to go into any more details, but I decided to just make everything meditation...my walking talking daily routine.

I think it's way harder to emerse yourself in society and practice , in compairison to getting away from it all in seclusion. You need difficult circumstances in order to practice....getting away from the problems and pitfalls of society would be nice, but only if you can emerge from it with more love and compassion, instead of being a arrogant sourpuss.

I once thought also of joining a monestary, or becoming a teacher & doing the traditional 3 year retreat...but I became disallusioned with all the ritual, and empowerments, and politics....but I still have faith, and respect, for all the yogis and mahasiddhas, and all the great zen teachers, etc.

So I spent 10 years, so far non-stop connection. Still learning. No ambition. Still working a job for a stupid paycheck....been obsessed with wanting to quit for years....still have bills to pay....mouths to feed.....

[Pam Seeback]

Kunga: ...but I decided to just make everything meditation...my walking talking daily routine.

I don't know if, in the above you are referring to walking-talking while giving yourself space away from day-to-day distractions or while being in the midst of day-to-day distractions. The first type of walking-talking meditation will produce enlightenment, the second, only confusion born of the duality of being in the world AND being of the world.

What I discovered is that walking meditation away from the distractions of family life is the one way one can be solitary with their thoughts of enlightenment while still providing for their family. While my kids were at home, my family knew that (working) Mom had to have her alone time, she's off for a walk, no big deal. Lucky for me, I married an introvert and between us we birthed two introverts so, by default, even today, solitary behavior in the midst of family-get-togethers is considered natural behavior. I don't know the particulars of your situation, perhaps you are single and your kids are too young to be left alone but if not, surely they can't quibble about the mental-physical health benefits of Mom leaving the house to go for a nice long "decompressing" walk. It might give them a chance to be alone with their thoughts as well (again, obviously only if they are old enough to be left alone).

Today, the kids are gone, hubby and I are both retired, quiet life in the woods, and yes, it makes a huge difference to the amount of time I have to think upon "things of the infinite." Even though my years as an active Mom did not allow for the same quality of thinking time I have now, I do consider them invaluable as a foundation of understanding the concept of selflessness, which included feelings of deep love and compassion for self-in-the-world.

[Pam Seeback]

Lox, joy, yes! Thanks.

[Kunga]

I don't know if, in the above you are referring to walking-talking while giving yourself space away from day-to-day distractions or while being in the midst of day-to-day distractions. The first type of walking-talking meditation will produce enlightenment, the second, only confusion born of the duality of being in the world AND being of the world.

What I was referring to, is being in the midst of all the drama of daily life. Being an observer, listening to myself as I babble on, observing all actions as they happen, it is truly dream-like and unreal....surreal at times....especially when you're doing dishes and a deer appears before your eyes.....observing the beauty of nature, the crazy traffic as you drive right into it, being one with the all....the movement of energy... as a flock of birds fly above....the sky and the clouds, and the traffic and cars...the trees and the hills, and the buildings and people...the ants, the butterflies, the butter and the burnt toast.....it's all the same energy....all mind.

Then when I'm alone I feel blissful, free, content.
Sometimes I'm alone for days....then it gets weird, I sense the presence of something much stronger....sometimes it scares me, and I want to get back to the familiar....
The longest I've been alone is 4 days . LOL

[Cahoot]

Owdy,

I meditated consistently as a practice for many, many years. A few years after the third eye opened I began to spontaneously and rationally question everything I thought I knew, including self-concept and identity. This picked up a lot of steam and became a perpetual activity, constantly applied to unfolding reality, mentally exhausting at first until something gave way, and then it took on its own effortless life, relegating existence to a life-support vehicle for the enquiry. Then the floodgates opened, the waters parted, and everything changed. These days the effortless life is using my body and being for undistracted presence, the totality of existence brought upon this moment, and then this moment, this moment, and so on.

[ardy]

I meditate on the Bible & Self-Realization.

I don't think it matters what you meditate on as long as your mind can't get a grip on the words. ie Jesus saying "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Should work, but if you meditate on it to understand it then that is different but a useful thing to do.

[ardy]

Owdy,

I meditated consistently as a practice for many, many years. A few years after the third eye opened I began to spontaneously and rationally question everything I thought I knew, including self-concept and identity. This picked up a lot of steam and became a perpetual activity, constantly applied to unfolding reality, mentally exhausting at first until something gave way, and then it took on its own effortless life, relegating existence to a life-support vehicle for the enquiry. Then the floodgates opened, the waters parted, and everything changed. These days the effortless life is using my body and being for undistracted presence, the totality of existence brought upon this moment, and then this moment, this moment, and so on.

Cahoot what was your experience when your 'third eye opened'? I don't know if there are many people who claim that meditation took them there.

[ardy]

Kunga: ...but I decided to just make everything meditation...my walking talking daily routine.

I don't know if, in the above you are referring to walking-talking while giving yourself space away from day-to-day distractions or while being in the midst of day-to-day distractions. The first type of walking-talking meditation will produce enlightenment, the second, only confusion born of the duality of being in the world AND being of the world.

What I discovered is that walking meditation away from the distractions of family life is the one way one can be solitary with their thoughts of enlightenment while still providing for their family. While my kids were at home, my family knew that (working) Mom had to have her alone time, she's off for a walk, no big deal. Lucky for me, I married an introvert and between us we birthed two introverts so, by default, even today, solitary behavior in the midst of family-get-togethers is considered natural behavior. I don't know the particulars of your situation, perhaps you are single and your kids are too young to be left alone but if not, surely they can't quibble about the mental-physical health benefits of Mom leaving the house to go for a nice long "decompressing" walk. It might give them a chance to be alone with their thoughts as well (again, obviously only if they are old enough to be left alone).

Today, the kids are gone, hubby and I are both retired, quiet life in the woods, and yes, it makes a huge difference to the amount of time I have to think upon "things of the infinite." Even though my years as an active Mom did not allow for the same quality of thinking time I have now, I do consider them invaluable as a foundation of understanding the concept of selflessness, which included feelings of deep love and compassion for self-in-the-world.

Moving always: Do you find that spending more time is better for you or do you miss dealing with the universe in the midst of action?

[Cahoot]

Just new experiences and attunement, ardy. Perfectly natural. No claims.

[Pam Seeback]

Moving always: Do you find that spending more time is better for you or do you miss dealing with the universe in the midst of action?

Ardy, the change of lifestyle happened so gradually that it is difficult for me to connect with the term "miss." How I would describe my "now" consciousness is that when I am not "reasoning the things of God", I am body-conscious Pam, Pam who is aware of tenderness, compassion, laughter, joy, contentment, fear, etc. For now, the latter seems to be the counterbalance to the former.

[ardy]

" There, is no greater love' than a man lay down his life for his friend.."

Jesus-

I am surprised whenever I hear any religious group threatening death or violence.

I wrote this as I got pretty mad at a bunch of American Christians who can get out of control. I enjoy my poetry and realise my weaknesses but do not care much, as it falls out of me.

Christians

To those Christians who have just threatened to kill a playright.

Before you cry out Jesus' name
what is it that he asked you for?
Heal yourself! through a needle crawl,
your seed upon fertile soil must fall.

Before you condemn every child,
born as a sinner, supposed in pride.
Help the weak, assist the poor,
don't squeal about your saviours call.

Before you study the bibles core
and quote it off through every pore.
He sent you love letters, hear him croon,
within the wind, the rain, the moon.

Until you keep your mouth from it,
try not to let your thoughts just slip.
Don't tell me how you were in pain,
and he gave you this straight jacket brain.

Go find yourself as Jesus did.
Then help humanity on the skids.
Don't place your hatred at the gate,
of other seekers with a different fate

[Cahoot]

" There, is no greater love' than a man lay down his life for his friend.."

Jesus-

I am surprised whenever I hear any religious group threatening death or violence.

I wrote this as I got pretty mad at a bunch of American Christians who can get out of control. I enjoy my poetry and realise my weaknesses but do not care much, as it falls out of me.

Christians

To those Christians who have just threatened to kill a playright.

Before you cry out Jesus' name
what is it that he asked you for?
Heal yourself! through a needle crawl,
your seed upon fertile soil must fall.

Before you condemn every child,
born as a sinner, supposed in pride.
Help the weak, assist the poor,
don't squeal about your saviours call.

Before you study the bibles core
and quote it off through every pore.
He sent you love letters, hear him croon,
within the wind, the rain, the moon.

Until you keep your mouth from it,
try not to let your thoughts just slip.
Don't tell me how you were in pain,
and he gave you this straight jacket brain.

Go find yourself as Jesus did.
Then help humanity on the skids.
Don't place your hatred at the gate,
of other seekers with a different fate

I don’t think violence is systemic to Christian evangelism. Is it? If violence was an integral aspect of Christian evangelism then there would be no hypocrisy basis for the poem. Christians with no palette for violence could opt out of evangelism and maintain a silent solidarity with the core beliefs.

[ardy]

I don’t think violence is systemic to Christian evangelism. Is it? If violence was an integral aspect of Christian evangelism then there would be no hypocrisy basis for the poem. Christians with no palette for violence could opt out of evangelism and maintain a silent solidarity with the core beliefs.

Agree Cahoot, religious violence is not limited to Christian evangelists. Zen warrior monks of the Tendai sect were burnt alive on Mt. Hiei by Nobunaga and solved a thousand problems by doing so. So I am ambivalent about war. It seems to be a part of our animal nature, we grow our power and the ego takes over then we want to dominate other nations and if they push back then war is possible.

I have not been able to understand or rationalise this part of our nature. Any ideas yourself?

[Leyla Shen]

Stand aside, Cahoot. (:

Hi, ardy.

You wrote:

[War] seems to be a part of our animal nature, we grow our power and the ego takes over then we want to dominate other nations and if they push back then war is possible.

It’s not very insightful, of course, simply to reduce it down to brute animalism. The great majority of the animal kingdom don’t engage in inter-species armed conflict necessitating the development of superior defensive and/or offensive strategies. Little outside of the brute strength of the individual or group (fight for mating rights or territorial skirmishes) is involved—“law of the jungle”.

I would suggest, therefore, that the only “animal” (rather than distinctly human) element to it would be any sort of conflict driven by biological imperative, i.e., food, water, shelter, sex/procreation.

Many human societies have developed sufficiently as a society, economically, philosophically, scientifically, to allow for the development even of individual genius, which in itself is a war within and against a given society and its values, between which there is no real difference.

In its historic context and present form, society appears as the nation-state (give or take some relatively minor internal rumblings, at this stage); a socio-political formation which, because of its values, deems "human nature" as essentially racial.

[Ed. Apologies. Left out an important word!]

[Diebert van Rhijn]

[War] seems to be a part of our animal nature, we grow our power and the ego takes over then we want to dominate other nations and if they push back then war is possible.

It’s not very insightful, of course, simply to reduce it down to brute animalism. The great majority of the animal kingdom don’t engage in inter-species armed conflict necessitating the development of superior defensive and/or offensive strategies. Little outside of the brute strength of the individual or group (fight for mating rights or territorial skirmishes) is involved—“law of the jungle”.

Indeed. Strife is part of nature, not to mention altruism’s possibly bloody roots but war acts historically as function of a state or empire. It's not difficult to link war to any highly organized complex social organization (including some ant and primate species). And the important enabler here with homo sapiens is identification: bloody sacrifices are in order to maintain coherence of the group, not only its physical existence but also its psychological one. Even sacrificing ones "own" might have some role here.

Warring nations are therefore usually full of citizens who think they are in control and individual but are surprisingly foremost driven by myth, media and alienating identifications. Meditate on that for a while!

[Leyla Shen]

Warring nations are therefore usually full of citizens who think they are in control and individual but are surprisingly foremost driven by myth, media and alienating identifications. Mediate on that for a while!

So... you don't like my new avatar? I find it a less alienated identification than your phallic face thinking in tongues, to be honest... (:

[Cahoot]

I don’t think violence is systemic to Christian evangelism. Is it? If violence was an integral aspect of Christian evangelism then there would be no hypocrisy basis for the poem. Christians with no palette for violence could opt out of evangelism and maintain a silent solidarity with the core beliefs.

Agree Cahoot, religious violence is not limited to Christian evangelists. Zen warrior monks of the Tendai sect were burnt alive on Mt. Hiei by Nobunaga and solved a thousand problems by doing so. So I am ambivalent about war. It seems to be a part of our animal nature, we grow our power and the ego takes over then we want to dominate other nations and if they push back then war is possible.

I have not been able to understand or rationalise this part of our nature. Any ideas yourself?

By your response I see a lack of clarity in my writing. Here’s an edit to clarify the meaning.

*

I don’t think violence is either doctrine, or systemic to Christian evangelism.

If violence was an integral aspect of Christian evangelism, and it is not, then there would be no hypocrisy basis for the poem.

If violence was an integral aspect of Christian evangelism, and it is not, Christians with no palette for violence could opt out of evangelism and maintain a silent solidarity with the core beliefs.

*

Stand aside, Cahoot. (:

In the morning face East.

In late day, face West.

Unless you’re using a sword.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

So... you don't like my new avatar? I find it a less alienated identification than your phallic face thinking in tongues, to be honest... (:

What is it? A funnny rock stabbing the sun :?) Mine is a character in an 80's computer game called Q*bert.

[Leyla Shen]

No, silly! It's Mickey Mouse with a straw stuck up his nose.