Qualities of a Spiritually Evolved Human

[Dennis Mahar]

Its still dependent arising.

link 4 in the 12 link causation chain deals with affectivity.

Being at the effect of suffering (victimhood) or being at cause in the matter thru the emptiness realisation.

thus its eradication
This response-ability.
you dont choose what you get
choose what you have right now
havingness.

[Kunga]

If the Observer is the Observed, then the victim IS also the pain

sounds logical
since everything is of the MIND

[Dennis Mahar]

Yeah,
Everything is imputed by thought,
by conceptualisation,
An image.

[Cahoot]

Retribution splinters the twin halves of dualistic intent into thirds.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Its still dependent arising.

link 4 in the 12 link causation chain deals with affectivity.

Being at the effect of suffering (victimhood) or being at cause in the matter thru the emptiness realisation.

thus its eradication
This response-ability.
you dont choose what you get
choose what you have right now
havingness.

You disregard logic, and act as if the obvious isn't noteworthy. There is clearly no choice for what you get or your response or feelings or insight/understanding, whether you are a suffering victim or feeling bliss or joy is not a choice.

Any insight one has into things like this

by conceptualisation,
An image.

is not by choice and that insight may leave completely.

Deeply rooted in egotism, still believing there is a choice or decider there who can retain insight or realisation.

Bliss/absolute joy does not fit in with the arising of suffering.

You do not have 'realisation' as something that has been attained and hence can never leave, surely you can see the relevance of that.



More importantly you have reached such a stage that you no longer consider, for you:
All is known, nothing is left out, thought is empty.
My understanding is final, there is nothing to get.
I am in bliss, absolute joy, I need not consider anything more.
Reason is empty, my insight is perfect.
All these others just need to see dependent origination, my insight and understanding is final.
I could not be wrong, for there is nothing to get.

Seeing the ignorance yet? the egotism?

[Dennis Mahar]

The self is an image, conceptualised.
it is your worldly project.
Hubba chubba
follow your bliss.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

what the fuck does that have to do with anything I just said?

Reason/inquiry doesn't apply to you, because you run off the idea that "I geddit, there's nothing to get".

I can't be wrong, I'm certain, I need not consider anything more, thought is empty, reason is empty, I have non-conceptual insight.

You are delusional and think you've had non conceptual experiences no one else has had and so they can't understand, you cling to them and think your understanding to be final, the egotism and cleaving to self is so blatant.

Hypocrisy is in the nature of most people and they can't realize or accept it, you are simply an egotistical hypocrit that can't recognize your own delusion.


The point is that others have had insight along with deeper consideration of reality. Consideration which you hinder through your repetition of references to experiences which others have already had. Nonconceptual insights into the truth can be elaborated upon and expanded without becoming entangled with delusion. You can't grasp that, to you any consideration or rationality is a lack of understanding of dependent origination or some other mantra.

Clearly the fact that you think you couldn't possibly be wrong or delusional and hence don't have to consider the possibility or even reply to such inquiries already shows how ignorant you are.

Try being logical for a moment, consider the idea that you could just be a huge idiot. Think that over.

[Dennis Mahar]

All contents are void.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Clearly the fact that you think you couldn't possibly be wrong or delusional and hence don't have to consider the possibility or even reply to such inquiries already shows how ignorant you are.

[Dennis Mahar]

All sentient beings are buddha nature.

display of buddha nature

projector projecting
self as project.

all contents are void.

you provide the meaning honeypie.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

How is that relevant?

There's no control or free will, you or me or anyone aint providing shit.

There is appearance and reality, none of which we provide.

Appearances include great pain and suffering which is the nature of things.

They also include deluded people that mistake "Life is suffering" for "Life is bliss, there's no such thing as suffering". Pretty stupid.

[Dennis Mahar]

Belief in inherent existence causes suffering.

meaning maker

[SeekerOfWisdom]

oh yes it's now belief that causes suffering. Animals, children, they are just believers!

Belief in inherent existence causes suffering.

meaning maker

There you go, so in life Dennis there is suffering. Great start, only took you 50 delusional denials of reality to say it.


Now, even according to your statement, "belief in inherent existence causes suffering", it becomes clear that since one does not control appearances/thoughts/insights/understandings or have free will over any experience for that matter, then suffering is due to continue and there is nothing one can do about it.

'It could last for weeks or years at a time for anyone.' Would you agree with that? Or are you somehow saying such conditions could not arise for you, that it isn't a possibility?

Therefore "Life is suffering".

[Dennis Mahar]

Wisdom means access to volition.

Why suffer?
Whats the payoff?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Unless I'm mistaken to the meaning of the word, that is not what wisdom means. There is no individual choice or will. After all your talk of dependent origination I expected you to at least grasp that.

Why suffer?

Suffering arises, there's no why. May as well ask "why experience life?".

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Suffering arises, there's no why. May as well ask "why experience life?".

What if liberation arises, without a why either? Either way, you're still teaching as if someone lacks knowledge of it.

Perhaps it helps to see suffering ("dukkha") not as equal to pain or any particular sensation. It's about what forms, sits or rests uneasily on that.

[Cahoot]

Wisdom means access to volition.

Why suffer?
Whats the payoff?

Those are solid, rational questions.

The intent to induce suffering in another is a basic warfare tactic.

On an interpersonal emotional level, the intent to induce suffering in another is based on the emotional logic of, if I can make you suffer then I don’t suffer as much.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Perhaps it helps to see suffering ("dukkha") not as equal to pain or any particular sensation. It's about what forms, sits or rests uneasily on that.

I used the example of pain as it is clear cut, Dennis seemed to be saying that there is no suffering, that it was simply meaning making, everything is actually absolute joy. He would have easily refuted any other mentions of suffering with a 'you provide the meaning' and finished off with 'YOU'.

[Dennis Mahar]

The state of affairs is co-dependent origination and dependent arising.
Suffering is optional.
what's the payoff?

how come emptiness is independently realised?
Volition is your havingness.
your response-ability.

who are you blaming?

[Pam Seeback]

Wisdom means access to volition.

Why suffer?
Whats the payoff?

Those are solid, rational questions.

The intent to induce suffering in another is a basic warfare tactic.

On an interpersonal emotional level, the intent to induce suffering in another is based on the emotional logic of, if I can make you suffer then I don’t suffer as much.

I agree with you Dennis, wisdom does mean access to volition or intent, which is why, Dennis, I give you a hard time when you assert that your suffering-free (not pain free) wisdom intent, bliss is THE (only) suffering-free wisdom intent. Stop bogarting intent! :-)

Cahoot, I also agree with your statement that "the intent to induce suffering in another is a basic warfare tactic." Which I believe was (not so much anymore, praise the arrival of the soft wind) the preferred tactic here at Genius. Where the logic falls down for me re this type of psychological warfare is that for those who are onto the game, what's the point, and for those who are not onto the game, the potential for doing more harm than good is a legitimate concern.

[Pam Seeback]

Unless I'm mistaken to the meaning of the word, that is not what wisdom means. There is no individual choice or will. After all your talk of dependent origination I expected you to at least grasp that.

Why suffer?

Suffering arises, there's no why. May as well ask "why experience life?".

Seeker, it is not true that one does not know why suffering arises. Remember craving? Clinging? Logically then, suffering ceases to arise as craving and clinging are gradually eliminated.

[Dennis Mahar]

People talk about logic endlessly, dont know what it is and dont bring their Being to it.
logic is this:

In order to for the sake of

jones had to trash this forum in order to get her self a forum
as Kunga realised.

your self is your worldly project

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Unless I'm mistaken to the meaning of the word, that is not what wisdom means. There is no individual choice or will. After all your talk of dependent origination I expected you to at least grasp that.

Why suffer?

Suffering arises, there's no why. May as well ask "why experience life?".

Seeker, it is not true that one does not know why suffering arises. Remember craving? Clinging? Logically then, suffering ceases to arise as craving and clinging are gradually eliminated.

That's not a why. That's asking the cause. It doesn't answer why clinging is experienced as suffering, or why such a feeling/perception exists at all, suffering is part of the nature of reality.

The state of affairs is co-dependent origination and dependent arising.
Suffering is optional.
what's the payoff?

how come emptiness is independently realised?
Volition is your havingness.
your response-ability.

who are you blaming?

First life is bliss and absolute joy and there's no suffering.
Then life is and does involve suffering but it's optional.

Tell me Dennis, how does "optional" fit in with a myriad of causes extending universe wide? Are you in control of those causes? Would suffering not arise if extended physical pain was caused?

You keep denying the obvious, lying to yourself filling everyone's head with bullshit like "It's just your perspective man", "It's how you see things".

But you deny the challenge, you refuse to the obvious logic, suffering can and will be caused throughout repeated existence despite your delusions related to 'havingness'. Otherwise take the test and put your hand in the flame.

How stupid can one be to not admit there would be pain and suffering if such very real possibilities were to arise?

[Dennis Mahar]

The wisdom traditions distinguish:
Spirit
Conceptualising mind
Body

even Einstein grokked a things existence depended on the theory the thing showed up in.
That the thing lacked an intrinsic identity independent of conceptualising mind.

get over it seeker
take an aspro.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Your an idiot and deny the most obvious facets of reality. Suffering and conditions that bring about suffering, such as physical pain, are unavoidable in existence.

You're talking about egotism and emotional/mental suffering, which one can see through.

You need to understand that over time you may lose any insight you have during endless existence and if it really is an option than the possibility of opting to suffer is still there and will be caused. You aren't the master of reality, you are subject to it.