jupiviv wrote:KJ: Anyway, you've shown by your own case that a spiritual vehicle, or rather, a well-designed spiritual lighter, can be used start a spiritual fire in the right person. You admit Kevin's site was a vehicle in your case, and it worked because you got in and used it. That's the process I'm talking about.
J: Well I never said that vehicles weren't important, just not as important as self-propelled motion.
J: Even if people do not agree with or understand you during the conversation itself, what you say can still have a powerful effect upon them if they think about it later.
KJ: Can you describe the face-to-face discussions over the past week, in which you overtly aimed at lighting spiritual fires? I'd be interested to see how your opinions are realised in practical terms, and how you've designed your life for this purpose.
J: I didn't overtly aim at it, but most conversations I have tend to be philosophically inclined. For example, if someone strikes up a conversation about professional sports, I tell them why it is a big waste of energy and money which could be used for other purposes. Or if someone talks to me about politics, I explain why any political system is bound to be corrupt since it is based on the desire of happiness, which manifests as greed, ambition etc.
Do you get into actual philosophy often with your everyday, face-to-face encounters?
As for realising my opinions in practical terms: I dropped out of university because it seemed to me that education is something people go through for the primary reason of getting a job and social status, as opposed to an education. Not to mention, the humanities (the field I got into) is utterly destitute when it comes to reason and truth. Now I'm doing a software degree on a part time basis, to keep my parents happy, and learning programming by myself. Initially, I felt it was a distraction and not compatible with spirituality, but now I'm much more at home with it.
I agree with the university study. I took on an online degree in bioscience/biotechnology, in order to help people comprehend Weininger's first chapters in
Geschlect und Charakter, but it's been a hellish experience because of the systemic irrationality in universities. I've tried to keep above it by studying part-time and only 2-3 units a year, but the spiritually distracting aspect is increasing, as each unit becomes more complex (as you can imagine). On the other hand, if I continue with the study, I'm more likely to get financial assistance from a bank with building the Thinker's Estates accommodation, as well as a $30,000 grant from the government. There are many pros and cons in this issue, and it's not easy making a decision. Do I sacrifice my own preference for a quiet life in order to quicken this project's benefit to others, or is the sacrifice too great and actually short-sighted?
If you share accommodation, with whom do you live with? If you pay rent, what percentage of your income does this amount to? What is the population and demographics of your city? Who do you tend to "socialise" with, and what kinds of socialising are they? Are you wholly dependent on programming for your income, or, if not, what is the main source of your income? All such considerations have effects on the kind of lifestyle one leads, what kind of encounters one can have with others, and who those others are likely to be. I know you will recognise they are not "worldly" Womanly questions.....
KJ: Also, do any of them read your internet writings, such as on the forum, on Youtube, etc.? Or do you think there is a definite Jupiviv vs. [your real name] split in your life?
J: I haven't really written a lot of stuff, and what I have written on the net is scattered all over the place. So no, people I know haven't read my internet writings.
I've used 2 names to date on the net - RB, and variations of "Jupta". The first is the initials of my proper name, and the second is my nickname which everybody who knows me uses. I was born on a thursday, which is jupiter's day, so I was named "Jupiter" which later became "jupta" because that's how indians pronounce the word.
Do any of those you've met with in person know about your views on women, as clearly and openly as you've expressed them "virtually"? Or do you find it isn't likely you could have such conversations with them?
OK. Your idea of a spiritual commune is not bad,...
That makes me think of Indian ashrams. It's nothing that gauche. My idea is just a simple accommodation for a small number, maybe 3-4 people at each location, where they get their meals, sleep, and have a place to study rational enlightenment. Grow food if they like. It's not extroverted.
It would be possible to have a network of such houses in any of the remote, wilderness or rural places where property is very cheap, and the ghost town localities would welcome a bit of a psychological and economic boost. The young men could raise funds together to support themselves with food and a bit of cash for electricity and internet, via casual hobbies. Their neighbours wouldn't find this kind of lifestyle altogether unappealing, so the typical distrust of such places would be mitigated.
...but it is extremely easy in these cases to sacrifice one's ideals for the sake of resources and popularity. That is the main fear I have regarding your idea of "vehicles". The world doesn't work the same way it did back in the Buddha's time. Nowadays you have to kowtow to the mainstream in one way or another if you want to get anything large and group-based going.
People will notice a group quicker than an individual, and if the group does something they are repulsed by, they won't rest until they either destroy or change it.
Well, a small, productive, quiet, rational group of young men with even tempers and calm personas are generally going to win others over. They have a lot more patience and consistency, so by dint of perseverence, they last longer.
If you want a large number of people to give you attention,...
What large number of people are you talking about? Why should I want their attention, in relation to the TE's? I'm thinking of only appealing to individuals through Youtube vids and the like. It's hardly going to capture the attention of a horde, and I'm not interested in hordes, anyway.
If you do find enough money and resources to create a no-nonsense electronic/real-world space for people to improve society and seek truth, why would they come there when there are so many other such spaces available? Why wouldn't they go instead to Osho, Sting or Sam Harris?
Don't you know?
In the Buddha's time you could create a truly outlying sect, for whatever purpose, and people would come to you. They didn't have as many options as they did now, and the influence of mainstream society did not cover every inhabitable corner of the globe. A lot of them would probably be ones who couldn't find something better or safer, but you'd still have a self-sustaining group with the potential of fostering wisdom in a few people if it has wise people calling the shots.
I'm not trying to create a sect. It's just pooling resources, to have more time and energy for their own individual spiritual progress. The self-governing part would be tricky, but better than an owner-dictator system, which wouldn't be as sustainable.
All that said, I think it would be great if Kevin Solway upgraded his site to >=2003 CE. Maybe improve the design and accessibility, with twitter, facebook or even reddit pages. It wouldn't hurt if he does videos more often. I'm planning on making some videos myself. An integrated menoftheinfinite youtube channel and blog (connected with Kevin's site) with videos from me, Diebert van Rhijn, you, Kevin Solway, David Quinn etc. is certainly achievable.
Well, then, ask Kevin. He's mentioned using twitter for aphorisms, so he'd probably put a link on the Minefield. He's been talking of making a vid analysing women and feminine-mindedness, but it's a tricky one. As for a design update, I don't think that will happen. People are happy with wikipedia.org and gutenberg.org, for instance, and that information is quite plain and basic.
Well, David seemed to have that notion with his blogosphere, but it turned into his own writings only. Maybe Matt Gregory would be interested in creating a splash page site tying the things together as a Men of the Infinite website, with a bunch of editors and contributors able to log in and post essays and links to blogs, vids, etc. I don't know. What vids are you thinking of making?
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