Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

[Dennis Mahar]

Diebert is right.

You're not sane.

yummy
Ha ha ha

shit for Lotus

[Ztoneburg]

Actually, I spent a few hours reading threads on this forum and found several people who I am very interested in listening to. Dennis is one of them, the others are Pye, Being1 and Movingalways.

Diebert is right. You're not sane.

I haven't claimed to be, I actually used the word "functioning". I probably don't fit into your definition of sane, you would obviously be a better judge of that than me since I have no idea what your definition is. But I don't understand why you think I would feel any need to be classified by you.

[Ztoneburg]

I have described how I got there, but that road may not work for you and depends on you finding someone willing to make the journey with you.

You haven't described how you got there. All you've done is proclaim that "there" is a great place to have gotten to, without providing any reasons why. You shouldn't expect people to believe things without proof.

I don't expect people to believe things, I just communicate what I believe and watch the response. To me it really doesn't matter whether you believe me. In your situation I most likely wouldn't either. So I sympathize with your disbelief, but at the same time it's not important to me. As I said, if I'm ever in a position to help you, I will gladly do so. But obviously I'm not, and since you don't believe me anyway I don't even understand why you keep pursuing this. I'm crazy, I've got nothing to teach you, I'm an idiot, a troll, schizophrenic or what have you. Just ignore me.

I don't think I claimed that reality changed, only my ability to experience it. If I did, I miss-spoke.

If you experience anything whatsoever, at any point of time, in any situation, you are experiencing reality in its full majesty. There are no grades to the ability to experience reality. You are either able to experience it or not. So why do you think you experienced reality more intensely by being a super-organism with your wife or during that special experience, than when you suffered the trauma, or right now?

This is fruitless, just drop it. I can't convince you and you don't want me to. Can't you see this is going nowhere? Our conversation is stillborn, let's just leave it and not hold any grudges. You're entitled to your perspective, I'm entitled to mine, let's leave it at that.

Look, I know you came here looking for guidance, but the kind of guidance we give out here isn't going to make you feel fulfilled, purposeful etc., so it's not the kind people, especially those in your predicament, usually want. It is pretty clear you want trifle, but all we have on the menu are fistfuls of unchewable nails.

I'm sorry but so far you've not been able to understand me at all and I've obviously failed horrendously in trying to explain myself. You're not helping me nor yourself in persisting in trying to explain to me what I am or what I want. You're welcome to all the unchewable nails that you want, just don't try to force feed me them, it's pointless.

[Ztoneburg]

I really must say I had no idea that this would be such an inflammatory subject, and I'm quite surprised by the reactions. I'm also a bit puzzled because if I thought someone was completely deranged, schizophrenic, traumatized or what not I'd either be nice towards them or steer clear. This “full frontal aggression” seems very weird from my perspective. What are you expecting to get out of it?

And yes, I do understand that people find the whole idea absurd, and the situation unlikely. So do I. But absurd and unlikely things do happen, and they happen to people, I just happened to be one of the people an absurd and unlikely thing happened to. Not sure what is so provocative about that. Someone has to win the lottery even though it's very unlikely for every individual involved, and in the US alone about 50 people per year die from getting struck by lightning. Winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning happens all the time, to actual people.

[Ztoneburg]

Diebert is right.

You're not sane.

yummy
Ha ha ha

shit for Lotus

I really am at a loss to understand what is going on here. I feel like I somehow started a bar brawl without knowing it, and everyone is angry at me for some reason, but I'm the only one not fighting. I mean sure, I find it a bit amusing, but my impression of this forum is that there is some really strange psychodynamics going on here...

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Wow. You've gone from calling me crazy, schizophrenic a liar and a troll to making me into a threat to the very fabric of this site.

Not so fast! Certified insane or lying troll. And I didn't call you a threat or schizophrenic. Perhaps I should add that you're quite boring, the worst sin of all!

And finish it off by claiming that *I* am the one stirring up shit.

My apologies. You're not going to stir anything up here this time around.

And this while I've been doing my best to disentangle myself from you. Sir, you are truly impressive. I salute you.

You don't have to read or respond of course. And yes, I'm impressive but really, I'm just a real person without much drama attached. It thinks better, you should try it!

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I really must say I had no idea that this would be such an inflammatory subject, and I'm quite surprised by the reactions. I'm also a bit puzzled because if I thought someone was completely deranged, schizophrenic, traumatized or what not I'd either be nice towards them or steer clear. This “full frontal aggression” seems very weird from my perspective. What are you expecting to get out of it?

This forum is all about challenging attachments especially the ones little men have to the fantasy of "woman". You bring attachments to your trauma & enlightenment and relationships up front to the table so naturally you see challenge happening. You did read the forum before joining? Some of the articles written by the admins perhaps? And then still join? Tsk tsk tsk.

[Ztoneburg]

Wow. You've gone from calling me crazy, schizophrenic a liar and a troll to making me into a threat to the very fabric of this site.

Not so fast! Certified insane or lying troll. And I didn't call you a threat or schizophrenic. Perhaps I should add that you're quite boring, the worst sin of all!

And finish it off by claiming that *I* am the one stirring up shit.

My apologies. You're not going to stir anything up here this time around.

And this while I've been doing my best to disentangle myself from you. Sir, you are truly impressive. I salute you.

You don't have to read or respond of course. And yes, I'm impressive but really, I'm just a real person without much drama attached. It thinks better, you should try it!

You got me! It's a fair cop guv.

lol

I don't know why but I kind of like you. Man do you try hard. I really ment it when I said you are impressive.

[Kunga]

Z....

See....I warned you.

This is the place to get your butt kicked.
Your ego ripped.

A Lotus can ONLY grow from the mud [fertilizer].

No mud,
No Lotus.

http://cdn.wallwuzz.com/uploads/wallpap ... -19223.jpg

[Russell Parr]

Actually, I spent a few hours reading threads on this forum and found several people who I am very interested in listening to. Dennis is one of them, the others are Pye, Being1 and Movingalways.

I still don't think you're as bad off as Diebert makes you out to be, but this bit was indeed discouraging to read.

This forum is all about challenging attachments especially the ones little men have to the fantasy of "woman". You bring attachments to your trauma & enlightenment and relationships up front to the table so naturally you see challenge happening. You did read the forum before joining? Some of the articles written by the admins perhaps? And then still join? Tsk tsk tsk.

I thoroughly agree here. Unless you've already decided what you want enlightenment to be, which seems to be the case, then I highly recommend you review some of the admins' materials before considering the opinions of the forum members.

[Ztoneburg]

Z....

See....I warned you.

This is the place to get your butt kicked.
Your ego ripped.

A Lotus can ONLY grow from the mud [fertilizer].

No mud,
No Lotus.

I'm sorry but there is no butt to be kicked. I see a lot of kicking, but no butts. I see a lot of ripping, but nothing getting ripped. How could text on a screen possibly be hurtful? My close friends can hurt me emotionally, and I will watch that emotion float by when that happens. Physical people can hurt me physically, but I've been there and done that, it's not so bad and it is passing. This is just a result of fingers hitting keyboards, separated in both time and space and with no connection to me.

Why would I take anything here seriously unless I found it serious and wanted to? Why would I let anything here hurt me unless I wanted to be hurt? This isn't mud, this is just angry people I don't know hitting their keyboards. They're not hitting me, the only thing in danger of being hurt is the fingers of those people.

[Ztoneburg]

Actually, I spent a few hours reading threads on this forum and found several people who I am very interested in listening to. Dennis is one of them, the others are Pye, Being1 and Movingalways.

I still don't think you're as bad off as Diebert makes you out to be, but this bit was indeed discouraging to read.

Why?

This forum is all about challenging attachments especially the ones little men have to the fantasy of "woman". You bring attachments to your trauma & enlightenment and relationships up front to the table so naturally you see challenge happening. You did read the forum before joining? Some of the articles written by the admins perhaps? And then still join? Tsk tsk tsk.

I thoroughly agree here. Unless you've already decided what you want enlightenment to be, which seems to be the case, then I highly recommend you review some of the admins' materials before considering the opinions of the forum members.

I'm reviewing some of the admins materials while posting here (and doing a lot of other things, I'm actually quite busy). Could you give me some pointers to what you deem to be the most important materials? There's an awful lot of it and my reading list was pretty packed even before I got here.

And I haven't really decided anything, stuff just happens. I feel more "enlightened" now than I did yesterday, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it's this board, maybe it's one of the many other things I did today, maybe it's just happening. Causality seems very tricky.

[Russell Parr]

Why?

Because the ones you mentioned have either very shallow knowledge or completely miss the mark. Pye might be the wisest of that group, if I had to pick one.

And I haven't really decided anything, stuff just happens. I feel more "enlightened" now than I did yesterday, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it's this board, maybe it's one of the many other things I did today, maybe it's just happening. Causality seems very tricky.

Causality is indeed very tricky, and there wouldn't be a bad place to start. David's Wisdom of the Infinite might be the most comprehensive book you could find on the subject, though I certainly recommend that you take the suggestion in the introduction to take it slowly and allow a lot of time for reflection. Other than that, Dan and Kevin host a lot of videos covering a wide range of subjects on the youtube channel, and Kevin's largest contribution is his book Poison for the Heart, which also touches on a little bit of everything.

[Ztoneburg]

Why?

Because the ones you mentioned have either very shallow knowledge or completely miss the mark. Pye might be the wisest of that group, if I had to pick one.

I don't agree with that assessment (well, Pye might be the wisest, I have no idea about that, it's the other part I don't agree with). And I obviously can't just take your word for it (I have no idea how wise you are) so I think I'm going to have to keep investigating and keep an open mind.

And I haven't really decided anything, stuff just happens. I feel more "enlightened" now than I did yesterday, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it's this board, maybe it's one of the many other things I did today, maybe it's just happening. Causality seems very tricky.

Causality is indeed very tricky, and there wouldn't be a bad place to start. David's Wisdom of the Infinite might be the most comprehensive book you could find on the subject, though I certainly recommend that you take the suggestion in the introduction to take it slowly and allow a lot of time for reflection. Other than that, Dan and Kevin host a lot of videos covering a wide range of subjects on the youtube channel, and Kevin's largest contribution is his book Poison for the Heart, which also touches on a little bit of everything.

Thanks for the tips, I'll make sure to get through that. I'm leaving for a trip tomorrow so I'll probably not be able to get through it all immediatly.

And you don't have to worry about me going slow or fast. I'm not trying to control or push it. Just having fun, smelling the roses etc. It's more of a stroll than a walk really, with plenty of sitting.

[Ztoneburg]

Actually this quote just came to mind:

No need to run, you'll only die tired.


I finally found a positive context to put it in. :)

[Russell Parr]

And I obviously can't just take your word for it (I have no idea how wise you are) so I think I'm going to have to keep investigating and keep an open mind.

Great idea. Don't take anyone's word for it. You haven't spent nearly enough time around these parts yet :)

And you don't have to worry about me going slow or fast. I'm not trying to control or push it. Just having fun, smelling the roses etc. It's more of a stroll than a walk really, with plenty of sitting.

Yes, having fun along the way is important to keep your sanity. All I would add to that is, in the end, don't expect to get much out of 'enlightenment' without taking it very seriously.

[Dennis Mahar]

Z,
The game is I'm OK, you're not OK, that one's OK, this one's OK, that one's not OK, this one's not OK, that group is not OK, that group is OK, this group is OK.

Ha Ha

and the punchline is

[Kunga]

Enlightened people don't discriminate which boogers to eat ?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Z, none of the people here are actually angry or emotional (though it may appear that way, perhaps Kunga only) the rest have left that stage pretty far behind, hence why it looks as if there is a lot of ridicule.

Yet the words don't have the nature of offensive, they only appear offensive when you get offended which is the point, to 'challenge' the ego, bring it to light. There are only a few options, there is fight or flight, which is most common on the forum, or you get over it eventually.

Anyway don't listen to some of the posters, Robert has maybe posted here that one time in a whole year, Russel posts more but still relatively rarely, and the few you listed (Pye, Moving, Dennis, Being1) and some you didn't, including Diebert who is just a tad more critical, definitely all 'get it', which you call wisdom. Though it will take you a while to recognize exactly how they are alike.

[Dennis Mahar]

That word enlightenment is a crock of shit too.
The word Buddha used is Budo.
Awake in true nature.
No thing.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

What does it matter which collection of letters we use? Any word is misleading as it sounds like it's referring to a thing, as you say.

[Dennis Mahar]

No word is absolute.
it is a possibility for meaning maker to thingify,
and set up a protection racket,

what's funny is the object of desire inevitably becomes undesirable,
the undesirable aspect streams with the desire like hand in glove.
It's only a matter of time.
alone again naturally.

One's ownmost is one's death,
You have to take the hit yourself,
It's not like you can trade it, or sell it off or persuade a friend to take it up for you.

[jupiviv]

Z, none of the people here are actually angry or emotional

I respectfully disagree. There's more emotions flying around here than a female self defence class, and a good portion of it comes from your vicinity.

[Dennis Mahar]

I respectfully disagree. There's more emotions flying around here than a female self defence class, and a good portion of it comes from your vicinity.

Throwin' that 'red rag' out there jupivinia indicates at least an early bout of pms.

[Cahoot]

Got any words of advice for a newbie?

If shedding a significant chunk of ignorance doesn’t render you mute, then refrain from attempting to speak for awhile after the ignorance is shed, in order to acclimate to and function in a world where there is less of what you thought you were.