Accidentally stumbling into enlightenment, and out again

[Ztoneburg]

A bit over three months ago something very strange (and wonderful) happened to me and after a lot of research I've realized that I by accident stumbled into the state of awareness that seems to be universally known as “enlightenment” or “being”. I say by accident because previous to this I was in no way a spiritual person, quite the reverse, and this state of being was neither something I was striving toward or even knew existed. It didn't happen “by itself” so to speak, but rather as an unexpected result of another process.

The “process” was my relationship with my wife, which was of the unconventional type. We were both very much into interpersonal communication, coaching, personal growth etc and more or less treated ourselves as an experiment. We didn't get married out of romantic love, but out of intellectual love and compatibility, we assumed the romantic bit would follow, and it did. Basically we were just continually focusing on communicating with each other and creating positive feedback loops, constantly analyzing and improving how we interacted towards each other in a completely altruistic and trusting relationship.

Then quite suddenly, as we were playing/working/socializing on June 15:th, my consciousness starts expanding in a way that would be similar to a common flashlight suddenly being replaced by flood lights and the whole world lights up. I'm filled with an immense joy, love, compassion, empathy and understanding. Everything suddenly looks perfect, beautiful and full of light. I'm overflowing with energy, I'm ecstatic and peaceful at the same time. It was like nothing I've ever experienced or heard of up until then. Now that I've done some research, it would seem that this is not unheard of or very strange at all, it's just usually attained within some spiritual setting, through meditation or other practise’s. To us it was completely unexpected and we were not prepared for it.

This state of awareness lasted for 3 days and only ended when I suffered a massive trauma (my wife died, I was beaten until unconscious trying to get to her). I made a post here shortly after it had happened, and got the immediate advice to “find peace”. I took that advice to heart because I realized that although I was functioning, I was not in a stable mindset. After a couple of months of treatment for the trauma, I'm now at peace. I've worked through the trauma mainly by use of meditation and breathing techniques (but also medication), something that is completely new to me. As I said, I was before this happened anything but a spiritual person. I was thoroughly trapped in mind-identification and almost pathologically incapable of being in the present.

Through meditation and contemplation I've managed to start walking the path back to the state I stumbled upon. I think I will get there in time and don't feel any sense if urgency, but it would be nice to get some advice from people who either are in this state or have come further than me on the path to it. It would also be nice to feel a sense of community, since I am now walking this path alone, and it would be reassuring for me to know there are others ahead of me. So hi (again) everyone. Got any words of advice for a newbie?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Hello again Z, considering the type of relationship you describe, it's quite possible you're still mourning deeply and the trauma might take longer as it sounds like a major event. You should take a bit more time before diving into a new hell (challenging your lying and cheating self). And also, your description of enlightenment doesn't sound quite right, perhaps some kind of drug trip or health issue comes closest considering all what preceded it. Was there a relation between whatever the state you were in and the accident you got yourself (yourselves) into? You must realize how weird your story sounds though, as if it's coming from a mind still traumatized of whatever went down and that's why I started with that advice.

But thinking back on your previous three posts here in July, I think you really need more professional help before going futher on this path. Something is not functioning right now.

[Russell Parr]

Hello Z, welcome back.

I can't say I'm much further down the path than you, but I can say that a common misconception regarding enlightenment is that it doesn't require a perfect understanding of the nature of reality, of the nature of consciousness, and of the relationship between consciousness and reality (and furthermore, a complete giving of self into this understanding). Without this, any experience thought to be enlightenment isn't really enlightenment.

In Buddhist terms, the process in which you experienced the flow from heaven to hell (from the peace and joy you experienced to the trauma of losing your wife) is often referred to as Samsara. Nirvana, or enlightenment, is reached upon the transcendence of Samsara. In this state, eternal peace is experienced no matter the circumstance.

[Dennis Mahar]

Hi Z,
You and your mate distinguished a possibility for conversation that generates a direct experience of love,
a fine intelligibility concerning ordinary/everyday world.

Your co-creator vanished,
shit happens.

Do you give up the possibility because 'shit happens'.

To be or not to be is the answer.

its always 'dangerous waters' for a fine intelligibility.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

So Z, as you were writing earlier there was this breakthrough on June 15th but on the 17th when you were still in some blissful state something terrible happened and you got accused of murdering your partner and soul mate. On top of the murder charge you received "intensive psychiatric care" for two weeks, got acquitted from the charge and released from mental hospitalization, after which you signed up at this forum at the 4th of July, barely two weeks after your intense trauma, describing how you were just recovering and as well announcing your plans to create some sustainable, socialist type of economy through various methods including through employing some IT software engineers.

Look, I"m no doctor but you don't seem to have it together. Whatever happened on the 17th, or whatever is going on in your head right now, I don't think this forum or any forum is going to be good for you. It's quite possible you're not able to separate reality and imagination and it will not work out at all. Whatever happened to your brain on the 17th, it sounds at best like a too sudden exposure, a sort of mental breakdown more than a breakthrough which will need way more preparation. Please consider the dangers for yourself and tone it down! It's not a joy ride.

[Russell Parr]

Deebs, I think you might be stretching it a bit here. Z seems well adjusted enough; he had a decent start early as a life long atheist, then came to experience what he called enlightenment, an experience that was unfortunately heavily anchored onto his love life. Trauma is normal with the loss of a spouse, especially in the manner which occurred to him, but it seems it hasn't completely wrecked him mentally.

I agree that one should take his time when it comes to enlightenment, as the path requires one to challenge and uproot any and all egotistical attachments. The best we can and should do is try to clear up any misconceptions he has in regards to the path, in my opinion. Maybe you're seeing something I'm not.

[Kunga]

This forum isn't for the faint at heart. It will rip you to shreds .
Mental stability is required.
Now I will go back inside my padded cell.

[Dennis Mahar]

Well, ya' gotta deal with Diebert's Absolute,

It's not a joy ride.

as in provide a string of justifiers to no end.

Diebert's little house of horrors down there on Bleak Street.

[jupiviv]

The best we can and should do is try to clear up any misconceptions he has in regards to the path, in my opinion.

Yes, but the most obvious misconception he has, as far as I can see, is believing that the experience on July 17th was enlightened. Of course, that depends on the definition of "enlightened", but I define it to be a clear, consistent awareness of the nature of things. What he calls his "enlightenment" really seems to be a so-called "altered" state of consciousness, which is something I have every time I play Mario 2.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

What he calls his "enlightenment" really seems to be a so-called "altered" state of consciousness, which is something I have every time I play Mario 2.

Spot on, how often you hear about these rare and special special states! "I was in meditation and entered infinity,etc", "I witnessed God", "I can't stop crying from enlightened joy" "I'm trying to get back to that state", blah, blah, blah.

[Dennis Mahar]

Lets get cynical.
you know,
just for a change.

[Ztoneburg]

Hello again Z, considering the type of relationship you describe, it's quite possible you're still mourning deeply and the trauma might take longer as it sounds like a major event. You should take a bit more time before diving into a new hell (challenging your lying and cheating self).

I have no intention of diving into any sort of hell, I don't know where you got that idea from. I've had quite enough trauma for this life time thank you very much ;)

And yes of course I am still mourning. I have no intention of not mourning, I'm only doing it in a much healthier way now.

And also, your description of enlightenment doesn't sound quite right, perhaps some kind of drug trip or health issue comes closest considering all what preceded it.

I'm sorry my description doesn't sound right, perhaps I should have put more effort into describing it. For me the actual experience and event was pretty damn “right” though. And no, there were no psychedelics or health issues involved.

Was there a relation between whatever the state you were in and the accident you got yourself (yourselves) into?

No.

You must realize how weird your story sounds though, as if it's coming from a mind still traumatized of whatever went down and that's why I started with that advice.

Yes I am perfectly aware how incredibly weird this story is. I don't think I would have believed it myself if I wasn't part of it. It's absolutely absurd. And yes it would be perfectly normal to assume I was still traumatized.

But thinking back on your previous three posts here in July, I think you really need more professional help before going futher on this path. Something is not functioning right now.

Well not to be snippy but I think both me, my family, my doctor and my therapist are in a better situation than you are to decide how things are functioning. And we all agree that I've recovered at an amazing rate and am functioning at least as well, in fact better, than I was before all this happened. I appreciate the concern though.

[Ztoneburg]

Deebs, I think you might be stretching it a bit here. Z seems well adjusted enough; he had a decent start early as a life long atheist, then came to experience what he called enlightenment, an experience that was unfortunately heavily anchored onto his love life. Trauma is normal with the loss of a spouse, especially in the manner which occurred to him, but it seems it hasn't completely wrecked him mentally.

Yes I've been contemplating this a lot. My hypothesis has been that the anchor created by the trauma and connected to my wife might be the biggest obstacle. It's not that I suffer from it anymore, I'm now capable of looking at photos and talking about her, and let my “body-self” out to mourn in a healthy way when necessary, without it being agonizing or overly painful.

I agree that one should take his time when it comes to enlightenment, as the path requires one to challenge and uproot any and all egotistical attachments. The best we can and should do is try to clear up any misconceptions he has in regards to the path, in my opinion. Maybe you're seeing something I'm not.

Well the way I see it I've already gotten all one could reasonably ask for out of life, both the high and the low, so I'm content. Were I to get a death sentence now my reaction would be “All right. Let me get my hat.” (I really like my hat). I'm ok with “it” as in life, death... everything. I still have things I'd like to do, people I'd like to see, but I don't feel like I have to. I'd like to be a positive influence, and I am, but it's not a compulsion anymore.

But I would be very grateful for any and all misconceptions that could be cleared up because I don't really think I have anything better to do than exactly that. And it's been quite amazing going down the path so far, so why not keep walking?

[Ztoneburg]

Hi Z,
You and your mate distinguished a possibility for conversation that generates a direct experience of love,
a fine intelligibility concerning ordinary/everyday world.

Thank you, that was a beautiful way of putting it. You made me understand it more, I'm grateful for that.

Your co-creator vanished,
shit happens.

Do you give up the possibility because 'shit happens'.

No I don't give up, but I would like to give up the I... It's a conundrum.

To be or not to be is the answer.

its always 'dangerous waters' for a fine intelligibility.

Well if there is one thing I am incapable of now it's fear. What is danger, what have I to fear? The absolutely worst thing that could happen is already behind me. The cosmos would really have to roll up it's sleeves to top that, and I don't think that's going to happen. And if it does... wow! Really?! I'd probably laugh myself silly. Or die. Or both.

[Ztoneburg]

So Z, as you were writing earlier there was this breakthrough on June 15th but on the 17th when you were still in some blissful state something terrible happened and you got accused of murdering your partner and soul mate. On top of the murder charge you received "intensive psychiatric care" for two weeks, got acquitted from the charge and released from mental hospitalization, after which you signed up at this forum at the 4th of July, barely two weeks after your intense trauma, describing how you were just recovering and as well announcing your plans to create some sustainable, socialist type of economy through various methods including through employing some IT software engineers.

Look, I"m no doctor but you don't seem to have it together. Whatever happened on the 17th, or whatever is going on in your head right now, I don't think this forum or any forum is going to be good for you. It's quite possible you're not able to separate reality and imagination and it will not work out at all. Whatever happened to your brain on the 17th, it sounds at best like a too sudden exposure, a sort of mental breakdown more than a breakthrough which will need way more preparation. Please consider the dangers for yourself and tone it down! It's not a joy ride.

As I said before I appreciate your concern and it was very accurate two months ago, but it is no longer two months ago. Really. I'm ok. My doctor thinks so, my therapist thinks so, my family thinks so and I think so. It's nice of you to worry, but really no need in my case.

[Ztoneburg]

Hello Z, welcome back.

I can't say I'm much further down the path than you, but I can say that a common misconception regarding enlightenment is that it doesn't require a perfect understanding of the nature of reality, of the nature of consciousness, and of the relationship between consciousness and reality (and furthermore, a complete giving of self into this understanding). Without this, any experience thought to be enlightenment isn't really enlightenment.

In Buddhist terms, the process in which you experienced the flow from heaven to hell (from the peace and joy you experienced to the trauma of losing your wife) is often referred to as Samsara. Nirvana, or enlightenment, is reached upon the transcendence of Samsara. In this state, eternal peace is experienced no matter the circumstance.

If what I experienced wasn't "real" enlightenment according to your definition, that's fine. I'll settle for the sort I had, I'm not picky and it was more than real enough for me, and still is.

[Ztoneburg]

This forum isn't for the faint at heart. It will rip you to shreds .
Mental stability is required.
Now I will go back inside my padded cell.

After what I have been through I think I can handle a few lines of text on a screen even if they turn out to be abusive or vitrolic. I'm neither a virgin nor a delicate flower. (but maybe I should be?)

[Ztoneburg]

The best we can and should do is try to clear up any misconceptions he has in regards to the path, in my opinion.

Yes, but the most obvious misconception he has, as far as I can see, is believing that the experience on July 17th was enlightened. Of course, that depends on the definition of "enlightened", but I define it to be a clear, consistent awareness of the nature of things. What he calls his "enlightenment" really seems to be a so-called "altered" state of consciousness, which is something I have every time I play Mario 2.

No the 17:th of june was when it ended, not when it started. We were in this state from the 15:th of june. For my wife it ended with bodily death, for me it ended from a combination of unexpected, and I'd say maximum amount of, physical, emotional and psychological trauma. Just wanted to clear that up.

If the fact that it was possible to exit this state (involuntarily) means that it was not the "real deal" according to your definition that is absolutely fine. I'm not here trying to argue or prove anything to you or anyone else, I'm here explicitly because I'm curious and looking for guidance. If your reaction is to dismiss or put down, I doubt we're on the same page anyhow.

[Ztoneburg]

What he calls his "enlightenment" really seems to be a so-called "altered" state of consciousness, which is something I have every time I play Mario 2.

Spot on, how often you hear about these rare and special special states! "I was in meditation and entered infinity,etc", "I witnessed God", "I can't stop crying from enlightened joy" "I'm trying to get back to that state", blah, blah, blah.

Wow. You seem like a barrel of laughs. ;)

[Ztoneburg]

Lets get cynical.
you know,
just for a change.

Cheers!

I used to be very cynical, but I think I've somehow lost the knack for it. It just tastes like stale beer or licking an ashtray when I try it nowadays.

[Dennis Mahar]

I used to be very cynical, but I think I've somehow lost the knack for it. It just tastes like stale beer or licking an ashtray when I try it nowadays.

:)

Thank you, that was a beautiful way of putting it. You made me understand it more, I'm grateful for that.

I'm moved to tears by your beingness champ.
I think I'll take a bex and lie down.

As a World discloser disclosing World.
First Class.
Hats off to your understanding.

[jupiviv]

If the fact that it was possible to exit this state (involuntarily) means that it was not the "real deal" according to your definition that is absolutely fine.

The question isn't whether it was real but what you think made it an enlightened experience. The way you describe it makes it seem like a primarily emotional affair with not much rational thought/philosophy going on.

The way I and a few others on this board define it, enlightenment is more about applying a flawless understanding of reality to every nook and cranny of our lives than about going through what are commonly labelled as altered/"spiritual" experiences.

No the 17:th of june was when it ended, not when it started. We were in this state from the 15:th of june. For my wife it ended with bodily death, for me it ended from a combination of unexpected, and I'd say maximum amount of, physical, emotional and psychological trauma. Just wanted to clear that up.

I don't intend to disparage the personal significance that those events might hold for you and you have my condolences for your loss. But the fact that you went through such a tragedy immediately after entering that "state", whatever it was, doesn't make it enlightened.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Deebs, I think you might be stretching it a bit here. Z seems well adjusted enough

And I was just being conservative in my response just in case there was some truth, who knows. But really, if his first wild bit of satori coincided with such death and destruction, it's not that much of a stretch to advice utter caution. Did he understand his experience and the results? Just coincidences you think?

Bottom line is that the spiritual journey is the hardest thing. If the first brush already coincided with that much trauma and suffering, he needs to understand it won't get much easier. I'm shocked that I agree with Kunga here somewhat but I'm reading here a story, when taken at face value, of someone definitely not ready for anything deeper at all. There's also something trollish about the whole drama display that I won't go into right now as it might be part of the mental condition of the author to interact in that manner, to "relive" it through strangers.

[Leyla Shen]

Well, fuck me if it ain't the Oprah Winfrey and Dr Phil show free to air online.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Ztoneburg

"To be wronged is nothing, unless you continue to remember it." Confucius

The pain from that bashing was only so bad and only so brief, the rest is in your own hands.