Whack-a-Mole

[Cory Duchesne]

Almost all of society's problems boil down to mans unwillingness to tell his mother, daughter and wife the truth about what's really going on with him.

Of course, he's tried a few times, but dealing with the feminine Ego is an utter nightmare. It's like playing whack-a-mole. If you make one problem she causes go away, then another one pops up in a different place. Even more frustrating is when you realize the new problem she's brought up is actually an old problem that you solved weeks ago. And if you solve it for her again, then she'll just bring up the previous problem from yesterday which you could have sworn was solved. You look at the confused expression on her face and realize in horror what you're dealing with.

In the meantime, she's constantly bringing sweet food into your surroundings. You told her not to bring any more food. You try to explain to her that you're trying to train for wisdom and you value your autonomy. She doesn't understand concepts like respect and autonomy. She keeps insisting that she does things for you that you should be doing for yourself. Infantalization is what she lives for, doing unpredictable things that bring comfort, sneaking in new temptations for food and money. You give her an inch, she takes mile after mile. Before long it's like a virus has taken over your whole being and that burning fire of clarity has all been smothered into a soaked charred log.

"It is not true that life is one damn thing after another: it's one damn thing over and over!"


I put it to you that everything a woman does obstructs the growth of wisdom. This is no exaggeration. Truth and femininity are poles apart with an infinite space between them. (David Quinn)

[SeekerOfWisdom]

It is definitely true, but it could also be said, to the same degree, for any delusional man with masculine qualities.

It's when a person starts becoming non-attached and finding understanding that they allow for wisdom, this can happen with women too and we see it all the time.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Almost all of society's problems boil down to mans unwillingness to tell his mother, daughter and wife the truth about what's really going on with him.

Then it's more about his willingness to have a mother, daughter and wife. They cannot be willed and at the same time told what's "really" going on of course. But then he's the one creating the conflict not because of unwillingness but because of what he willed combined with another thing he willed. Two horses, two minds, two masters.

[Cory Duchesne]

Almost all of society's problems boil down to mans unwillingness to tell his mother, daughter and wife the truth about what's really going on with him.

Then it's more about his willingness to have a mother, daughter and wife. They cannot be willed and at the same time told what's "really" going on of course. But then he's the one creating the conflict not because of unwillingness but because of what he willed combined with another thing he willed. Two horses, two minds, two masters.

That's actually very true. His willingness to be a son is to have a mother, his willingness to be a father is to have a daughter... this is where the problem lies. When pressed for answers, the key is to undermine the most fundamental assumptions of the pursuing women (in my case, family), because all interaction occurs based on assumptions, and as long as the assumptions of these women go unchallenged, there is disorder. The challenge is to get the women to listen, understand and obey - to assume their positions, and not meddle in and smother the fire of others. Very truly I tell you - the women do not understand autonomy. Why should they? Their whole lives are a training and exercise in nestling up against the strength of men, stabbing in weak spots and then healing the damage that they themselves are doing.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Very truly I tell you - the women do not understand autonomy. Why should they? Their whole lives are a training and exercise in nestling up against the strength of men, stabbing in weak spots and then healing the damage that they themselves are doing.

Just before reading your response I came across this: Familiarity promotes the blurring of self and other in the neural representation of threat. Or from the The Daily Mail:

• Dr Coan believes the reason for this response is because humans need to have friends and allies who they can side with and see as being the same as themselves and as people spend more time together, they become more similar. He said: 'It's essentially a breakdown of self and other; our self comes to include the people we become close to...If a friend is under threat, it becomes the same as if we ourselves are under threat. 'We can understand the pain or difficulty they may be going through in the same way we understand our own pain.'

The struggle for individuality and "carving ones own (conceptual) space" is one that is deep down a real aggressive move. Towards other creatures in primitive times but now more often in terms of defying ideas, habits, commonality, family, the "familiar" and often including challenging ones own notion of self.

As a child we are "willed" upon this world and therefore have family. But after adulthood is up to us to define ourselves in relation to them. Deep emotional habitual patterns will seem unsurmountable. But don't forget it's also human to have two minds, two desires and two allegiances. The moment we would resist and protest too much, like any rebellion, right away another faction, another dialog is created like "the mother I don't want to think of" or the "father I do not talk to". So it's important not to will them into further existence but also not desire them out of it. The path between them both is tricky: a "non-arising" of the familiar?

[Kunga]

I put it to you that everything a woman does obstructs the growth of wisdom. This is no exaggeration. Truth and femininity are poles apart with an infinite space between them. (David Quinn)

You could of been aborted, so your "wisdom" wouldn't have a chance to "grow".
Ponder that.

[Cory Duchesne]

I put it to you that everything a woman does obstructs the growth of wisdom. This is no exaggeration. Truth and femininity are poles apart with an infinite space between them. (David Quinn)

You could of been aborted, so your "wisdom" wouldn't have a chance to "grow".
Ponder that.

Without wisdom, the human species itself will become aborted. Woman (as an impersonal force, I'm not blaming) bends the male into degradation, and unless man can pull himself away and separate from his mother then we are doomed.

All responsibility falls on men. The women will just sit back and passively benefit from the spiritual work of men, which they always have.

[Leyla Shen]

Well then, Cory. Let us know when you've pulled yourself away from society—that impersonal force known as Woman—and become a wise man women can passively benefit from.

[Cory Duchesne]

As a child we are "willed" upon this world and therefore have family. But after adulthood is up to us to define ourselves in relation to them. Deep emotional habitual patterns will seem unsurmountable. But don't forget it's also human to have two minds, two desires and two allegiances. The moment we would resist and protest too much, like any rebellion, right away another faction, another dialog is created like "the mother I don't want to think of" or the "father I do not talk to". So it's important not to will them into further existence but also not desire them out of it. The path between them both is tricky: a "non-arising" of the familiar?

You framed the issue quite well, I think you described it optimally.

In my case, I plan to put a lot more thought and care into the preparation of my year. Instead of trying to control the people who are trying to control me (knocking down their desires with a hammer is no fun for neither me or them) I will instead just limit the amount of time I allow them to control me. Instead of once per week visits where they can innocently inject chaos at far too often intervals, I'll just try to make use of Christmas, Birthdays, Easter.

I'm not mean spirited, I enjoy seeing my family, but at this point I enjoy seeing them as humans, soul to soul. When I do see them, they can do or say whatever they want, and particularly not at my apartment.

It seems we've achieved a bit too much free time in modern society, and the result is that we tend to regress into very soft-headed tribal indulgences. I think Alain De Botton has the right idea about using Calendars in a much more philosophical and creative way.

[Kunga]

Without wisdom, the human species itself will become aborted. Woman (as an impersonal force, I'm not blaming) bends the male into degradation, and unless man can pull himself away and separate from his mother then we are doomed.

All responsibility falls on men. The women will just sit back and passively benefit from the spiritual work of men, which they always have.

There would be no wisdom to be had, if man and woman had not wisely fucked, to make a man, to fall in love [with wisdom].

Are you still dependent on your mother for survival ? If so, don't blame her !

[Cory Duchesne]

Well then, Cory. Let us know when you've pulled yourself away from society—that impersonal force known as Woman—and become a wise man women can passively benefit from.

Well, I should have politely added that there will be the odd exceptional women such as Leyla Shen who might actively pursue the True.

[Cory Duchesne]

Without wisdom, the human species itself will become aborted. Woman (as an impersonal force, I'm not blaming) bends the male into degradation, and unless man can pull himself away and separate from his mother then we are doomed.

All responsibility falls on men. The women will just sit back and passively benefit from the spiritual work of men, which they always have.

There would be no wisdom to be had, if man and woman had not wisely fucked, to make a man, to fall in love [with wisdom].

Are you still dependent on your mother for survival ? If so, don't blame her !

A life lived in chains is not a life worth living (is what I'm trying to say). There are many people alive today who wish they weren't, and to go through life wishing you weren't alive is not a life worth living.

[Cahoot]

A life lived in chains is not a life worth living (is what I'm trying to say). There are many people alive today who wish they weren't, and to go through life wishing you weren't alive is not a life worth living.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and strength reveals the worth.

[Cory Duchesne]

A life lived in chains is not a life worth living (is what I'm trying to say). There are many people alive today who wish they weren't, and to go through life wishing you weren't alive is not a life worth living.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and strength reveals the worth.

Pain makes you stronger when you apply wisdom to your situation. However, someone who lives without thought, only to snuggle and lean against you and your achievements will soon become a source of grief. She has no center, and because she has no centre, she takes up more and more of your mind, which really isn't separate from your time. Mind and time must be understood as a single, unified movement. However, your mind and your time gradually become bound to extremely trivial and petty concerns if you're not careful. People are constantly offering you small pleasures and temptations and its very difficult to understand how corrosive that is to the mind until months or even years later.

[Kunga]

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

[Cahoot]

Very funny thread. Some good laughs.

It’s something every man learns. In terms of relationship women can present unique and often unpredictable challenges to clarity and thus, as a method for expanding awareness and understanding beyond cloister limitations, a deeper insight into the actual knowledge and experience of acceptance, even genuine appreciation, of whatever is perceived as difficult. And have a few laughs, which is fun. It works the other way too. Women can benefit from the presence of men. Shiva/shakti.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

In my case, I plan to put a lot more thought and care into the preparation of my year. Instead of trying to control the people who are trying to control me (knocking down their desires with a hammer is no fun for neither me or them) I will instead just limit the amount of time I allow them to control me. Instead of once per week visits where they can innocently inject chaos at far too often intervals, I'll just try to make use of Christmas, Birthdays, Easter.

Sounds like a good plan. Some relatives will even tell you eventually you were the wise one in doing so. It's not as they want control over you, it's just the dynamics of the social: a collage of chain and mirror reactions which are not even seen by most participants. Felt, occasionally perhaps.

However, someone who lives without thought, only to snuggle and lean against you and your achievements will soon become a source of grief. She has no center, and because she has no centre, she takes up more and more of your mind, which really isn't separate from your time. Mind and time must be understood as a single, unified movement. However, your mind and your time gradually become bound to extremely trivial and petty concerns if you're not careful. People are constantly offering you small pleasures and temptations and its very difficult to understand how corrosive that is to the mind until months or even years later.

Well said. But also mind your time spend on trivial and petty posters...and I should know.

[Cahoot]

Thankfully for all who encounter their orbit, the wise who know have broad shoulders to permit perseverance pontificating truth amongst the burden of deficiencies encountered via the unworthy.

*

Away from the academic theoreticians, here’s part of a relevant teaching regarding being conditioned by chains and the imposition of perceived limitations upon one’s precious, finite attention.

“Laws and rules are in fact established on the basis of circumstances of time and place, and work by conditioning the individual with factors outside him or herself.

“Awareness, on the other hand, arises from a state of knowledge which the individual him or herself possesses. Because of this, laws and rules sometimes correspond to the inherent awareness of the individual, and sometimes do not. However, if one has awareness, it is possible to overcome the situation of being bound by compulsion to follow rules and laws. Not only is this so, but an individual who has awareness and keeps it stably present is also capable of living in peace under all the rules and laws there are in the world, without being in any way conditioned by them.”

[Cory Duchesne]

But also mind your time spend on trivial and petty posters...and I should know.

"The petty thought: it creeps and hides, and wants to be nowhere - until the whole body is decayed and withered by the petty infection." (Nietzsche)

[Leyla Shen]

Well then, Cory. Let us know when you've pulled yourself away from society—that impersonal force known as Woman—and become a wise man women can passively benefit from.

Well, I should have politely added that there will be the odd exceptional women such as Leyla Shen who might actively pursue the True.

Polite? You must be confusing me with someone else. My distinct preference is for truth.

And, on that note:

As even you cannot help but demonstrate, it's not that women have no centre; rather, it is that Woman, is everyone’s centre.

Male desire for the mother (Oedipus Complex) resolves when the infant correctly identifies its relation to the parent of the same sex; in this case, the male infant with the father. But Dad, in the male psyche, becomes the rival in the phallic stage; desire for the mother (by the infant) and the looming threat of castration (domination) by the father.

So, whilst it might be conceived that all females become Mama-dear, what follows from this, actually, is that what comprises “Woman” for the male is, in fact, the male fear of being dominated by other men and not the selfhood of having no centre; of being the nurturing womb itself.

So now, who's who?

[Beingof1]

Thankfully for all who encounter their orbit, the wise who know have broad shoulders to permit perseverance pontificating truth amongst the burden of deficiencies encountered via the unworthy.

*

Away from the academic theoreticians, here’s part of a relevant teaching regarding being conditioned by chains and the imposition of perceived limitations upon one’s precious, finite attention.

“Laws and rules are in fact established on the basis of circumstances of time and place, and work by conditioning the individual with factors outside him or herself.

“Awareness, on the other hand, arises from a state of knowledge which the individual him or herself possesses. Because of this, laws and rules sometimes correspond to the inherent awareness of the individual, and sometimes do not. However, if one has awareness, it is possible to overcome the situation of being bound by compulsion to follow rules and laws. Not only is this so, but an individual who has awareness and keeps it stably present is also capable of living in peace under all the rules and laws there are in the world, without being in any way conditioned by them.”

Great quote.

Who said that.

[Cory Duchesne]

As even you cannot help but demonstrate, it's not that women have no centre; rather, it is that Woman, is everyone’s centre.

Quite true. But isn't that the reason why there is so much degradation, violence and mindlessness in society?

What happens when you make a center out of a creature who has no center?

Male desire for the mother (Oedipus Complex) resolves when the infant correctly identifies its relation to the parent of the same sex; in this case, the male infant with the father. But Dad, in the male psyche, becomes the rival in the phallic stage; desire for the mother (by the infant) and the looming threat of castration (domination) by the father.

I tend to agree, but the interpretation can go further. In an important sense, it's the father's (and the community's) responsibility to separate the boy from his mother, aunt and sisters. On some level, the boy knows this. He looks up to the father and expects the father to teach the truth. In my view, there must be a competently orchestrated male initiation performed by the males that frees the boy from future enslavement with his mother, sisters and aunts. Otherwise the women unconsciously act as piranhas, consuming the child like he were sweet cake. Left to female whiles, the son grows up only to degenerate the next generation even further.

There needs to be a constant, active defense against the corrosive acid of femininity. The (figurative) castration of the father is often just the sons revenge. The son is abandoned to the Piranhas of femininity and "made useless". Someone has to pay!

So, whilst it might be conceived that all females become Mama-dear, what follows from this, actually, is that what comprises “Woman” for the male is, in fact, the male fear of being dominated by other men and not the selfhood of having no centre; of being the nurturing womb itself.

It's true that young men have many fears, particularly a fear of solitude and in depth thinking. A young man, generally, would rather throw himself into battle or off a cliff than think with any depth.

So now, who's who?

For the record, I would consider any artist, entertainer or public figure, no matter how male, to be a woman. A good artist is conscious of the fact that he is woman (externalized, an object). Anyone who peacocks, like an artist, is in some sense, like an athlete. All athletes make objects of themselves for the audience.

Femininity or womanhood is essentially "relatedness" which is what the artist and athlete lives for.

That being said, I think all biological women can only benefit by becoming internally male, and if they wish, they may continue being woman in a kind of game-like spirit.

Of course, it gets pretty blood thirsty out there, doesn't it?

[Cahoot]

Great quote.

Who said that.

Hello. It comes from a teaching that focuses more on integration of view than view, and emphasizes non-distraction rather than being distracted by whatever distracts (such as perceived pettiness or “feminine ego.”)

Although the teaching is specific to a tradition it is worthwhile to all.

http://www.fudomouth.net/thinktank/now_nnawareness.htm

[Leyla Shen]

Cory,

The question of Woman, being the metaphysics that it is, has as its actual centre the pre-linguistic infant who, through various stages of psychic (self) development is literally merged with his environment. No self. Just need and satisfaction of need. Once the self fully develops as separation from his environment, need becomes desire, which is distinguished from need as a consciousness of lack.

In the phallic stage (psychosexual development) is the stage when the infant becomes aware of genitalia as the primary source of sexual arousal, the physical differences between male and female. So this is the stage where the relations between a child and its parents take on a different, specifically sexual dynamic in the developing psyche of the child.

So, together with physical development comes a corresponding psychic development; an awareness of primal drives (id), primal drives modified through recognition of the limitations imposed upon the individual by practical reality (ego), and, following this, identification with one or the other parent and the subsequent internalisation of rules as morality/social mores (super-ego) which then acts against the primal drives (id).

To me, the most reasonable judgement I can make of the Woman metaphysic and any actually debilitating manifestation of it in pragmatic reality is that it is a phallic stage fixation insofar as it is involved with a sense of non-separation from the mother in either sex. Indeed it is problematic, since what else could be expected if a man can’t make any essential distinction between his girlfriend/wife/daughter and his mother, save only by some obligatory name tag?

Quite true. But isn't that the reason why there is so much degradation, violence and mindlessness in society?

What happens when you make a center out of a creature who has no center?

You are that creature.

That being said, I think all biological women can only benefit by becoming internally male, [...]

So, a male gets to blame the father and the female gets to... become internally male?

How does she do that?

[Cory Duchesne]

Cory,

The question of Woman, being the metaphysics that it is, has as its actual centre the pre-linguistic infant who, through various stages of psychic (self) development is literally merged with his environment. No self. Just need and satisfaction of need. Once the self fully develops as separation from his environment, need becomes desire, which is distinguished from need as a consciousness of lack.

We often hear about "lonely outsiders" who feel like they don't fit in and wish they did. They mope and get sad that they are not a part of something. These are "peripheral souls". They can't help but see themselves as outside of a center of more value.

This "need" you speak of in babies is similar to this. The baby feels "apart" from itself. So although the baby is not necessarily self aware, it rages against a sense of incompleteness and helplessness. This carries over into the teenager years through envy, inferiority and loneliness. The self doesn't feel as if it's acquired what it needs to be itself. Therefore, the fascination with another becomes acute. However, the woman feels the same way. So you have a woman who is making a big fuss over something out in the horizon (oh the big city! how I wish I could be there!) and then you have a man who wants to court her in the same spirit. Both human beings are constantly placing more value on something outside of them. If only I had that person. I would make them my center. Obviously this doesn't work very well because neither human being has a center, yet, each expects the other person to be stable. Furthermore, what a woman wants is different from what her male suitor wants. She's focused on large groups of people, precisely because she puts more value on the crowd than she does on her own worth. On the other hand, he's focused on her. The farce begins!

Quite true. But isn't that the reason why there is so much degradation, violence and mindlessness in society?

What happens when you make a center out of a creature who has no center?

You are that creature.

Nah. Occasionally someone can get under my skin with an insult or with flattery. Who doesn't have weaknesses? The seductive arrow! Aim your arrow at his weakest point. Opening and re-opening the wound as you please, he'll lose his mind. Struggling to close the mental wound, he will lose consciousness of the fact that his mind is racing.... he's wondering in confusion how you disturbed him so much. Next thing you now he's pursuing you like a moth to the light.

People love the one who hurts them. The Tango of power.

So, a male gets to blame the father and the female gets to... become internally male?

How does she do that?

I don't think the oedipal complex is pronounced in healthy father-son relationships. For an oedipal energy to be mild means it's likely impotent and not really a relevant variable to interactions. A son becomes Oedipal as a result of failing - failing to be internally male.

The female benefits by being internally male insofar as she can cooperate a lot better with her suitor. She doesn't rely on manipulation the way she normally would. My girlfriends had all generally been very attached to the group - they need lots of connections to people, it doesn't matter how shallow. As long as they are connected and related to lots of people they feel they are on the road to progress. If the male is maneuvering the female into increased isolation, she soon complains, and since the male has made her the center of his world, he is generally willing to make the adjustments.