Determinism & What is choice? (Here we go again)

[Ojlink10]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID5cnG90 ... FC46259823

It seems plainly clear what Determinism is: Cause & Effect
Infinitude is an on-going series of causes that sprout the illusion of choice and free will. Obvious.

and yet...

what exactly is choice?

In my best estimate of what exactly choice is...

"choice" is the imperative of nature (specifically, human beings) to provide the *desired result* from a series of "events"
(aka scenarios) that are demarcated (or imagined) from the continuum.

Imagination: Experience and concepts that become a tool to display potentialities (of course, depending on the task at hand)

Even as I write this right now, it is, basically, the imperative to convey a certain truth in the world because I see it as better more so than worse.
Comparing and Contrasting is not "free". It is, certainly, contingent on what is presented, which makes the options quite narrow.

In the moment of decision, is there really any conscious effort? Did I actively type this sentence or did I start to type based on the issue presented before me and my desire to correct what I see as "wrong" or "missing-the-point"?

In this sense, becoming enlightened, doing away with the ego, is just developing and overwhelming amount of imperative to become so.
And by develop, I mean get lucky XD

[SeekerOfWisdom]

You didn't make a conscious choice over what you wrote or even what you thought about before you wrote it, dependent actions. Anyone with an inkling of sense should know they don't have will over what formations arise.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Quality will desire quality though. Ignorance just wills more ignorance. That's a realization to be had!

[Dennis Mahar]

In the moment of decision, is there really any conscious effort?

In any decision problem, the way the world is, and what an agent does, together determine an outcome for the agent.
a self can be sufficiently conscious in the act of selfing-in-a-world to realise consequences forthcoming which is a disposition toward wisdom.

Seeker will argue there is no agent ultimately and yet there is an experience of agency.

[Cahoot]

In the moment of decision, is there really any conscious effort?

Yes. The decisive moment is action, because every action you make, you must make. Constructing a consistent and justified rational, such as you have a choice or no choice, or determining the why behind the action, does not alter that fact. No matter what it is you do, you do it because you must. To live within awareness is to witness this phenomena in the present, or as close to the present as human physiology permits.

[Dan Rowden]

You didn't make a conscious choice over what you wrote or even what you thought about before you wrote it, dependent actions. Anyone with an inkling of sense should know they don't have will over what formations arise.

What causes people to not have an inkling of sense?

[Pincho Paxton]

Choice is to juggle energy, and then throw it into a hole. Say if you had 6 bean bags spinning around, and each was a different colour. They are already rotating around in a circle, so cause is circular. Effect is to throw one into a basket.

So choice is a circular motion of energy that you can throw into a hole.

It's the circular part that takes away the beginning of the choice.

[Dan Rowden]

You know, if you put your posts through a gibberish or word salad generator they end making the same amount of sense. Curious.

[Pincho Paxton]

You know, if you put your posts through a gibberish or word salad generator they end making the same amount of sense. Curious.

I posted a simple reply. If you want to admit that it is too complicated for you that is up to you. But in the past, other forums have understood it, and said that it was the best idea that they had heard.

[Kunga]

It's the circular part that takes away the beginning of the choice.

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images ... heilan.jpg

[Dan Rowden]

You know, if you put your posts through a gibberish or word salad generator they end making the same amount of sense. Curious.

I posted a simple reply. If you want to admit that it is too complicated for you that is up to you. But in the past, other forums have understood it, and said that it was the best idea that they had heard.

Really? Must be the forums I've never been to.

[Pincho Paxton]

You know, if you put your posts through a gibberish or word salad generator they end making the same amount of sense. Curious.

I posted a simple reply. If you want to admit that it is too complicated for you that is up to you. But in the past, other forums have understood it, and said that it was the best idea that they had heard.

Really? Must be the forums I've never been to.

Let me show you how the real brain stores memories....
http://www.trainingindustry.com/content ... earns.aspx



Ok, so I didn't change much. Memories are shown in the image to be stored in holes.

[Dan Rowden]

Really? You want to show me how the brain works by offering an article by a fucking management consultant and trainer? Jesus H. Go away and write some game software.

[Pincho Paxton]

Really? You want to show me how the brain works by offering an article by a fucking management consultant and trainer? Jesus H. Go away and write some game software.

It's the same on all sites...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=neuro ... 39&bih=603

You only had to look.

It's no good pretending that you know things, and swearing at people when you don't bother looking.

[Dan Rowden]

God you're a fucking dipshit. And I will swear at you all I want. That article is barely more than remedial. Do you get that? It was an insult to link to it as though you were "teaching" something. Look, Pincho, we know you don't do science, that you are not a scientist, and indeed that you even go so far as to reject the paradigm itself. You are little more than a storyteller. You weave barely coherent tales of the mind. You use actual science arbitrarily, quite literally as it suits you and no more. Your use of real science in this way makes you look foolish. But you don't care, do you, because Pinchoism is a superior way to look at the world, even thought it doesn't involve any testing or predictive power whatsoever. Who needs stuff like that when you can just make shit up, right?

[Pincho Paxton]

God you're a fucking dipshit. And I will swear at you all I want. That article is barely more than remedial. Do you get that? It was an insult to link to it as though you were "teaching" something. Look, Pincho, we know you don't do science, that you are not a scientist, and indeed that you even go so far as to reject the paradigm itself. You are little more than a storyteller. You weave barely coherent tales of the mind. You use actual science arbitrarily, quite literally as it suits you and no more. Your use of real science in this way makes you look foolish. But you don't care, do you, because Pinchoism is a superior way to look at the world, even thought it doesn't involve any testing or predictive power whatsoever. Who needs stuff like that when you can just make shit up, right?

Ohh! a losing speech I like it. You should learn psychology so that you don't make so many psychological mistakes.

[Dan Rowden]

The only mistake I've ever made with regard to you is to allow you to continue posting here. Everything I just said is accurate. Interesting that you made no attempt to correct it or deny it. Frankly, anyone who develops a pseudo-metaphysic and names a non-existent (i.e. made up) particle after himself ought never be taken seriously by anybody. Have fun anyway; there are worse things a person could be doing with their time.

[Pincho Paxton]

The only mistake I've ever made with regard to you is to allow you to continue posting here. Everything I just said is accurate. Interesting that you made no attempt to correct it or deny it. Frankly, anyone who develops a pseudo-metaphysic and names a non-existent (i.e. made up) particle after himself ought never be taken seriously by anybody. Have fun anyway; there are worse things a person could be doing with their time.

I don't need to correct you, your flaws are psychological, like I said. Correcting psychological mistakes to the person with the psychological errors is a waste of time. You blow, you swear, you are not listening to anything.

[Dan Rowden]

There's nothing to listen to; that's the point. If I want stories I'll go read a fairy-tale.

[Pincho Paxton]

There's nothing to listen to; that's the point. If I want stories I'll go read a fairy-tale.

If the site is about Enlightenment, then how come you call facts fairy tales?

[Dan Rowden]

What facts? Your stories are only facts in your imagination.

[Pincho Paxton]

What facts? Your stories are only facts in your imagination.

All facts...

Particles come in sets of 6. 6 juggling balls. Fact.

Memories are stored in holes... fact.

Particles have spin.. juggling.

It's very simple. 6 quarks. 6 anti quarks. leptons. 6's.

You make it sound terribly complicated.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

In the moment of decision, is there really any conscious effort?

In any decision problem, the way the world is, and what an agent does, together determine an outcome for the agent.
a self can be sufficiently conscious in the act of selfing-in-a-world to realise consequences forthcoming which is a disposition toward wisdom.

Seeker will argue there is no agent ultimately and yet there is an experience of agency.

Tho even to realize consequences and alter ones path is not a choice. There is no action or thought that involved effort of will, even the language you would speak was ready for you as a child.

A conversation can be viewed as meaningful between two people if you are to distinguish the forms of experience and view identity as separate. The interaction contains as much free will as that between two flies or two plants, empty manifestations of the infinite which are so varying that to say one holds meaning while another is gibberish is only a matter of subjective perspective, 'more meaningful' doesn't hold up ultimately.


And Dan I don't think anything in particular causes that, it just is, look at Pincho for example, try locating the particular cause for his lack of sense.

I couldn't answer, but I've known since I was very young I didn't have free will, ever since I wondered if I had a choice over a spontaneous action such as which direction I would jump or which number I would pick.

Blame then becomes something very nonsensical in terms of dependent origination.


Even from Pincho's view free will is a delusional idea, in fact especially from the 'particle' view.

[Dennis Mahar]

free will,
is a conversation about power/control.
a political question.
who/what's in control.

a God conceptualised is an answer concerning a political question.
religion is politics.
wars are conducted under the flag of religion.

not-a-thing Is,
he calls blithely,
as he steps forward into nothing.
gosh.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Bit of a poet yourself.

Someone asks me a question along the lines of "what's the most amazing/life changing thing that's happened to you in your entire life", I knew the answer instantly with accuracy, so I didn't reply.