Kunga:
I do love the truth, and I understand what you mean by being able to "see" the truth of this. But it is not a case where everyone obviously knows this reguardless of their interest in truth...like everyone can see the sun shining (that is obvious to everyone looking at the sun).
Yes it is obvious - the stunningly, inescapable, simple dimple truth.
Here it is! Are you ready? Are you sure?
Wherever you go - there you are.
The Truth is not obvious, Universal Consciousness is only understood and realized by those that have realized it....otherwise it's not possible to know this Truth....one would only hear it from others and assume it must be true....they belive it true, without KNOWING (experiencing).
Everyone experiences universal consciousness. They have been programmed not to trust their very own experience. This brainwashing was accomplished by years of systematic abuse of carrot and stick. In school, if you have a test with 100 questions and score 95 out of the hundred. They do not say "you got 95 right." Instead they say "you got 5 wrong." Very subtle and insidious reward and punishment game to make you a good slave so you will surrender your power as an infinite being.
When I said it can't be proven, I was thinking empirically/scientifically.
Can you prove it right now so everyone here knows without a shadow of a doubt ?
No.
Either can I.
So the truth can not be known (obviously).
Yes it can - pay attention.
Could you give me an example of something that exists beyond your awareness? If all things, including your thoughts, are contained within the field of awareness, the field (consciousness) is what is fundamental.
The field (consciousness)itself exists nowhere. There is no exact location of the 'you'. Consciousness is non-local. Western mindsets tend to think linear - consciousness has a center that is everywhere and its circumference is nowhere. A compass points at true North - consciousness points in all directions.
It is like the concept of zero or the empty set. In set theory, all other sets( ~), are contained by the empty set. The field of awareness transcends existence as it cannot be found to be a 'thing', yet all of totality exists within this field of consciousness.
There can be no reality or truth apart from experience.All things, categories, systems, beings and principles exist because you experience all the properties of reality. They are defined by you, experienced by you and known by you. You cannot separate yourself from reality.
Do you remember a time you were not? Do you remember your first thought? Can you know anything or something outside of your consciousness?
Russell:
I remember our last conversation. You did not answer a single question, played verbal gymnastics and word chess. You avoid my questions again - I will not speak to you because it would be pointless.
Just what exactly is "universal consciousness"? Other than an egotistical attachment to the preservation of self-existence (fear of death) expressing itself, of course. Consciousness is clearly a thing (as it is differentiated by what it's not), which is therefore caused, and therefore cannot be the whole of reality, as things are just part of the whole of reality.
1) Universal Consciousness is the fact that you cannot have reality without it.
2) Fear of death - Why do you jump to conclusions? Try asking instead of spin doctoring. If I never existed it would be hard to die, would it not?
3) Consciousness is a thingy: If you can point to one thing - just one - that exists outside of consciousness, then you have a point. If you cannot, then all things are contained by consciousness and it therefore transcends being a thingy.
Beingof1:
Did you step outside your consciousness to come to this conclusion?
Sure didn't. Did you?
If it is impossible to step outside your consciousness then - now get this - all things are contained by the field of consciousness.
The fact that we cannot observe anything outside of it (as observation requires consciousness), proves that we haven't the slightest idea of just exactly what is going on beyond it.
The fact that we cannot observe anything outside of consciousness proves there is no edge to it - hello? If you could point to the defining line between reality and your consciousness then you would have a salient point. Where is the edge of your consciousness and where does the outside begin?
The only resort is educated guesswork based on empirical evidence, which is ultimately a shot in the dark. Going any further is both impractical and delusional.
What is delusional is to think there is an 'outside' of your consciousness. Point it out already - would ya?
That said, it's easy to fall into the trap of believing in such a thing.
I do not "believe" I can take a stroll outside of my experience and you call that delusion and a trap. Are you sure it is I who cannot answer all - and I do mean all - your questions and statements?
Tell us all how you know there is an outside to your consciousness and at the very least begin with a premise.
Seeker/John is doing a variation of this same thing. It's all 'new agey', pop-buddhism stuff. It's empowering to the ego to believe that some aspect of conscious experience, which is familiar to the current one in some way, will continue to exist beyond physical death, and/or has always existed in some "higher realm", or anything else you can imagine that gives the impression that consciousness (and/or Love) is beyond causation or is causation.
Uh huh.
Now address my points - do not sidestep, spin doctor, evade and obfuscate.
Here is the essence of the grand contradiction that you are not seeing. Now focus your truth seeker here:
" Did you step outside your consciousness to come to this conclusion?
Sure didn't. Did you"?
If it is clearly impossible to step outside your consciousness - How can you "believe" it to be possible all at the same time?
Diebert, my apologies for misquoting the Buddha. Thank you for the laugh.
How about this?
""The Mind is Buddha. All Buddhas and all sentient beings have the same Buddha-Nature and one Mind. Therefore, Bodhidharma came from the West only to transmit the One-Mind Doctrine. However, since the mind of all sentient beings is the same as original Buddha-Nature, there is no need to practice; for if one recognizes one's own Mind and sees one's own Nature, there is nothing at all to seek outside oneself. But how is one to recognize one's own Mind? Just that Mind itself that wants to perceive the Mind ? that is your own Mind, which is as void as Original Mind and is without words and function."
-- Huang Po