Earth is Paradise

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Dennis Mahar »

If you 'get' it in your own way, after a fashion, and the possibility of entering into the spirit of things opens up.
and one's island is secure 'in the knowledge'.

and as far as the eye can see, there be, concatenations of suffering islands as well as islands of a similar disposedness to one's own.

island hopping shows up.

what's world's best practice in that?

John's 'dawn raids',
'storming the citadel'
'nuclear bomb'

beautiful!

youthful embrace!
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brad walker
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by brad walker »

The future? :)
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Dennis Mahar »

an opportunity to be with you and you and you and you
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

Pye you are projecting your own perspective of what "dream" is implying it isn't "this", but it is.

There is something that is "what-always-is", impermanence is what is permanent.

For as long as one clings to the Self thinking it is their source of being or consciousness they will not find the "true self" which is impermanent, not dependent on particular form or body, and everlasting, that is "this".


Dennis

Entering into the spirit of things is letting go of everything else, all you have to look for is who is holding on.

What is it that you are doing? You know I don't do well with reading purposeful obscurity.


Diebert you just agreed there is no choice, the free will being an illusion, the only "right choice" is to stop doing. Yes not all sensation is as meaningful or with attention but those feelings of meaningful are only feelings and also will change. The pattern itself is definitely dependent but on what?

"The Tao follows only it's own will"
Last edited by SeekerOfWisdom on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Dennis Mahar »

John,
If nothing appearing exists from its own side.
what's left is an imputing consciousness.

you don't own it. I don't own it.

live with it.
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

See Dennis, boom, obscurity out of nowhere, "You don't own it, I don't own it, live with it" as if it was implied I "own" consciousness, what does that mean? Especially when it is clear there is no control and all thoughts are also not "owned". It's not me thinking or you replying, we have no ego and no choice of intention.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:Diebert you just agreed there is no choice, the free will being an illusion, the only "right choice" is to stop doing. Yes not all sensation is as meaningful or with attention but those feelings of meaningful are only feelings and also will change. The pattern itself is definitely dependent but on what?
There's still the problem of choice, even now with your promotion of "right choice". Yes, meanings come and go but this doesn't address it either. Perhaps just see what happens with what you realize for a while, see which forks come up, see how you'll address them over time. It's a long road before the doing stops presenting you.
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

How can there be the problem of choice when there is no choice? What does it mean "before the doing stops presenting you".?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:How can there be the problem of choice when there is no choice?
You presented the option of "stop doing". If there's no option then there's no reasonable statement "stop doing". It would be illusive to say so.

You talk about change. Changes we perceive as actions. Actions are perceived as moments and events and sometimes when grouped, we perceive ourselves in the middle of them. Here the doing "presents" someone like you even when you think you're not doing. But you never did any doing anyway!
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

Exactly, never did anything, because there is no me no choice and hence only the actions and changes.

"Stop doing" still works as something to type with effect because technically I didn't do/write this. It means let your actions arise on their own, stop worrying, stop suffering, stop acting like this is anything more than an experience, it will pass away, "not-doing" is still an option, there just isn't anyone making the choice. "will of it's own"

"A wise man recognizing the world is but an illusion does not act as if it is real and so escapes the suffering"
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Dennis Mahar »

"Stop doing" still works as something to type with effect because technically I didn't do/write this. It means let your actions arise on their own, stop worrying, stop suffering, stop acting like this is anything more than an experience, it will pass away, "not-doing" is still an option, there just isn't anyone making the choice. "will of it's own"
having your cake and eating it too.

'stop doing' can be a justifier for 'its all too hard'.

One's abstracts about conceptualisation in human experience and the nature of ultimate reality may be very acute and yet one's day to day experience may be virtually untouched by those theories.

If you went to Fiji and trouble brewed, you'd pull out your Aussie Passport quick smart and seek consular support.
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

What's too hard? It is heaven, you don't have to do a thing, " I drink from the great mothers breasts"
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

I didn't used to live it as I would still fear the future, but now I live it, not going anywhere planned and you make your own troubles, not one bad thing has ever happened to me, the only thing would be physical pain, the rest is a choice.

The way doesn't require action or worry, only being.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Circumstances are you are living off welfare and your brother's kindness.
There's no point accessing the Catholic guilt trip over it,
nevertheless in the conditions,
'do nothing' is an option.

'do nothing' has no absolute existence for it depends.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

SeekerOfWisdom wrote:...."not-doing" is still an option, there just isn't anyone making the choice. "will of it's own"

"A wise man recognizing the world is but an illusion does not act as if it is real and so escapes the suffering"
But if there are options and choices happening, there is still the problem of choice. There's still wondering happening, options being weighed, tough decisions having to be made. It's not like one escapes suffering by just throwing out the hard nuts and chewing the softer ones?

It becomes like that story of Hakuin being accused of getting a local girl pregnant. The girl accused him of being the father as to keep the identity of the real father hidden. Hakuin didn't admit or deny but only said: "Is that so?" and accepted the care of the baby while it could mean a huge blow to his reputation. After a year the girl suddenly made the real father known to everyone. Hakuin didn't react on all the surprise and apologies but with another "Is that so?" and returned the child.

Is that harder or easier to do than what would be the usual reaction? Would this solve the problem of choice in each and every case? In the actions however the choices are still being made, here to not upset anything and have no life choices for yourself.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Grief and feast, for once past the bitter taste, no longer motherfracker, but mother; no longer grief, but joy; no longer just acceptance, but seeing, becoming; being-with, rather than 'against.'

Soooooo many philosophies of permanence belie that deadset motherfracker. So many expressions of a what-is desperate to affix itself into what-always-is: a god, a human soul, every passing thing, a dream . . . . anything but this.
Totally agree Pye.

which of the philosophers do you teach that takes your breath away?
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

Dennis what does it matter that non-action is dependent? It is still the way, and Im not living off welfare, there is more to not doing that can't be seen until you fully let go. Some of the wisest words spoken:

( Not doing and non-desire are synonymous)

"Practice not-doing and everything will fall into place"

Or "seek first his kingdom of righteousness and all these things will be given to you"
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Dennis Mahar »

"Practice not-doing and everything will fall into place"
What do you think that means.
In effect.

My experience of it is 'fully present in the doing' whatever the activity is.
sit when sitting
walk when walking
eat when eating
think when thinking

total immersion.
in the zone.

do you think it means laying in bed all day.
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brad walker
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by brad walker »

Pye, I think I understand. Pure immanence?
Pam Seeback
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Pam Seeback »

Absolute = truth [of the moment]. BEcause is the realm of right here, right now. Be STILL and KNOW I am God.
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brad walker
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by brad walker »

I've had some major realizations, some involving thorny blunders. Hopefully I'll soon be ready for takeoff.

P.S. On this forum I have been doing "Hermetic dialogue", a constant stream of half-truths interrogated by others. Interesting process.
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

Dennis

Exactly fully present in what you are doing, empty mind, actions arising on their own when prompted by "the tao", not-doing also means meditation, "residing in the Tao".

But, through letting your actions arise on their own, through not worrying and being where you are, everything falls into place on it's own.

"His actions flow from the source of his being"

A little babe suckling.

"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will worry about itself"

"Stop thinking, end your problems"

“The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, worry about the future, or anticipate troubles, but to live in the present moment wisely and earnestly.”

"Wherever you go, there you are" or "sit when sitting"

Why are you constantly trying to project things you've made up onto me btw? Welfare... in bed all day, etc, I do a lot and I think I'm spending my time wisely, I live life and I couldn't imagine a happier person :)

And it also means to give up your desires and evil thoughts, all that remains is appreciation for what is now, "happiness that follows as surely as the wheels on a cart follow the ox that pulls it"
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

The fact of the matter is,

If you let go of everything, there is nothing you are holding on to.

"The kingdom of heaven"
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Basically you withdraw into quotes.
as if it matters.
Quote factory.

Quotes and 'living the qoutes' is different.

Generate the reasoning that supports the quotes if you don't mind.

like that one:
Doubt: the sword that kills.
WTF?

Certainty can only exist in an ocean of doubt.
perfect pals.
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: Earth is Paradise

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

Doubt: the sword that kills is a quote.

Is in reference to the exact quote: "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills."
Buddha


Your projecting on to me though, what makes you think I'm not "living the quotes"?

Why does it matter that I like to read and share wisdom and luminous quotes? I think it is a good thing, they are usually very relevant.

"Generate the reasoning"

"A wise man, recognizing reality is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real and so escapes the suffering."

hehe.

Recognized life was eternal and it was only an experience of the mind like a dream and am the living path.

What is with you?
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