There can be no suffering without ignorance

[jufa]

If your feeling suffering at any time that isn't anything popping up but the past or future, the joy remains if neither of those interfere, and yes, time, distance, movement, body, brain, universe, death, rebirth, all illusions of consciousness, everything witnessed is not in control, this comment "it's" comment, so I guess you know we're pretty much talking to ourselves right now then?

Becoming one means letting go of everything, discrimination, bias and familiarity, past and future, when the mind is empty it's never been more open. Joy is a bad word, joy is never constant, wonder and mystery are tho similar I guess.

btw jufa, you do realize you are saying what you want to say in a complex way, when if you understand you could just say it simply, and people would still understand?

I laugh when an individual explains to me what I am. When you stop address me by assumptions [if] and makes statements of exactness, rather than rhetorical metaphysics, you could? What you are saying doesn't matter, for its not about you, it is about me. It is about me because I comprehend "Loyalty to Your Imperfections" And so I say I, as you and all born of a woman have never been asleep. We have, however, been indoctrinated to believe we are not who we are. And who are we? We are the ever renewing, ever unfolding expression of infinite Life.

Out of Life's Silence we entered this domain as the vibrating sound and wave of Life's expression. Breath is the open doorway of that expression. Breath bears all that man seeks to hear, touch, taste, smell and see, for where there is no Breath in man, there is no man in this parenthesis of life to be physically found.

Life is not a an awakening experience. Life is a discovering of one being alive in Breath's Potential of Righteousness, and, therefore, awake. When this truth becomes the foundation and structure of man's inner conscience, he realize The Voice was moved to speak and bring forth That which Is of That which Is by the Spirit of That which Is. Man is never becoming. Man is, and he is what is whole, perfect, complete and pure of the spirits which are the activity of his living in the dark and in the light.

This discover is what brings forth the Christ in man which seemed not, yet was. . ."And there was light." What does this mean? It means when one touch the inner conscience of Conscience in them, they realize they are the consciousness of every spirit they project. Yet, it is Spirit which is the only source of their consciousness.

This means, whatever spirit projected by you, or I, does not leave our presence. What it does is seek that of its own kind within our consciousness. This means we may hide the reality of ourselves from others, but we can't hide from our-self. It also testifies to the truth: "be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever ye sow, that shall ye reap."

One can talk all the garbage of being awoke in Christ or Buddha consciousness they want, but should they project any spirit within them that is not riding upon the rhythm of the fruit - "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, faith, goodness, meekness and temperance" - of "the law of the Spirit of life" in the continuum moment of The Breath of Life, righteousness cannot be obtained.

The question is not "what woke you up Jufa?" But are you still discovering your Potential of Righteousness?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

[Dennis Mahar]

bluerap,

Back to the 'woman' topic, have you given it much thought yet? How do you think women generally compare to men, in regards to the capability of wisdom?

An inquiry into woman and the distinction 'reification'.

Democritus recognised the problem of reification when he declared properties such as colour, heat and taste do not exist in the physical objects themselves, but only in their interactions with the senses.
Eye of the beholder.

To reify 'woman' as fixed entity with a certain set of attributes is shaky ground considering that everything that exists lacks an intrinsic nature or identity.
All entities are viewed as dependently related events and none bears a self-defining, independent existence.

Does 'woman' depend on conceptual designation for entityness when ultimately her nature is nonentityness?

Are these submissions appropriate in the woman inquiry?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

See Dennis, first time I hear you say something that isn't advice, and your already implying and imagining we are interacting with physical objects that are producing our sensory experiences, knowledge alert

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Jufa

No, that's not what the "and there was light" means , it is a direct explanation of where light came from, it exists as a "it's just how we are" of the mind of god, which is you, you are the eternal awareness/dreamer creating your own circumstances as you go, literally your body exists because you asked questions and needed answers, you see with your eyes closed remember, light comes from you, you are the spirit that encompasses all known existence/experience, time doesn't exist, the idea you came from your mother and after her is simply a mixed illusion of consciousness, all that exists is experience, everything else is an imagination, the most righteous person is the one that simply let's go and acts without thought, there is no other reason to be righteous except in sight of the knowledge that others are essentially you. For it was man that created his own shadow, "And you were one and become two, but now that you are two what will you do?" - Jesus

Do you distinguish between that spirit and you? I took the time to re-read what you were saying and found it really well written, but still, much more complicated than I believe is necessary for you to get your point across, try writing just one comment clearly as if you weren't writing to anyone else but yourself, hence there will be no altering or fixing up to suit conversation, and you'll see how much more understanding can be transferred, what do you think?

[Dennis Mahar]

See Dennis, first time I hear you say something that isn't advice, and your already implying and imagining we are interacting with physical objects that are producing our sensory experiences, knowledge alert

Your song ranges between essentialism and nihilism.
It's off-key.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

And you've imagined that what your seeing actually correlates to objects and body, but if you were to be realistic, nothing but what is seen exists and the objects such as body don't have any substance of their own. What's off-key and where? Something not based on descriptions please.

[Dennis Mahar]

existence exists.
I exist.
you exist.

undeniable.
OK?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Yes, ok, but that is aside from the fact that you think what your seeing is any more real then the things you would see in a dream, the light is just as real as the light you see with your eyes closed, they exist only in the seeing, OK or not ok with this?

[Dennis Mahar]

Yes, ok,

That's all that is required, thankyou.
that means we can get rid of nihilism.

You agreed your obsession with proving an essential nature was an inference.

that means we can get rid of essentialism.

What's left is an analysis of 'how it exists'.

OK?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Your analysis is where your going wrong dennis, what are you trying to find that isn't already there?

[Dennis Mahar]

Did you agree your philosophy was based on inference?

then taking that inference for fact you spend your time roaming wikipedia for quotes that seem to support your inference.

thus contributing hearsay from highly questionable sources.

what are you trying to find that isn't already there?

rhetoric is useless.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

My philosophy is this: The only thing I know to exist are these mysterious experiences, other then that, what else is known? Nothing.

The quotes I post are usually from texts online like this http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9 ... te-v3.html or actual books and how is that relevant quotes are only used because they are related and awesome.

Yes we are all mostly speaking about nothing and for no real reason.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Just came across this one, argument from a poet:

"It is by no means an irrational fancy that, in a future existence, we shall look upon what we think our present existence, as a dream.”
― Edgar Allan Poe

[Dennis Mahar]

The one clear perception
is the interconnectedness and complete dependence of all
things. Becoming and being, past and future, reality and emptiness, subject
and object, arising and ceasing are all real things, but only in relation
to each other. None exist absolutely.

The true reality,
the 'suchness' of the cosmos, must be seamless.
Conceptualizing it imposes artificial divisions and distinctions on that which is undivided.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Perfect, but you are doing the very thing you warn against when you split between subject and object, all ideas are only shallow imaginings of these mysterious senses, even your belief that things seen correlate to physical objects, all that exists is experience, and our forms or "here" are only more fleeting dream like experiences, causality and all the ideas you have you've already admitted are only shallow imaginings of these experiences, yet you still assign your logical investigations credibility when they are nothing more than these faulty descriptions and distinctions, so why conceptualize it and constantly discriminate between it? "subject and object", or assuming this "place" more reality, you don't understand that you are the totality, completely encompassing known existence.

[Dennis Mahar]

In order to live a life a rational creature must order his life conceptually knowing that there are causes/conditions for suffering.

That does not mean a rational creature automatically assigns his conceptual frameworks absolute existence.

They are tools of a tried and true condition for the most part, employed for the purpose of a sustainable peace and pleasure.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Like you said, rhetoric is useless at this stage, our only speech or work should be cooperating on how to best awaken others, what else do we have to give to those in bed with desire and suffering?
* what else is worthy of talking about or in any way more productive or useful?

[brad walker]

I was directly asked a question and replied to it twice, weren't you going off on a break to realize you can talk to people without being an idiot?

Otherwise I could just constantly point out whatever ego based on forum writing I think your showing through doing whatever your doing, which you display constantly and even realized you were displaying once, did you forget and have now come back to contend and act like a 12 year old with a grudge a little more? Or going to realize the only grudge/resentful thinking is on your side?

You actually believed that whopper in my last PM? I didn't open your reply for a week to give the lie some weight.

Again, do I bitch and whine and obsess on faults I can find to point out based on peoples posts? yelling cyberpsychopath and ego ego ego! lol seriously, only problems are created by the people who think there are problems.

No, you just provide Genius Forums with a Whac-A-Mole. Whenever someone tries to pin down your bullshit you just pop up with another bit from your repertoire: hiding behind authorities, hiding in vagueness, appealing to simplicity, warding off attacks by trying to flatter and impress, now trying to fight fire with fire, saying "the Tao made me do it!", saying "I still hold personality traits because I'm a person", etc. Anything to avoid introspection, the actually difficult work. Like I told you months ago, ego always has an escape route and your currently-profound, newfound knowledge has only made yours more nimble. And now you always have to defend your 18-year-old wiseman image.

If you want to be above others' games you should start with your own.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

I'm 19 now, do I get an extra star?

Brad go throughout this whole forum and see how many of your comments are either an attack or telling people they are constantly hiding/being egotistical/putting on a fake act/bullshitting then keep reading until you wake the fuck up and ask yourself what your hiding from, what inner problems you might be reflecting, then realize how deluded you are being creating conflict where there is previously none, which kind of people create unnecessary conflict constantly?

I forgot, your doing it to teach us right?

....oh wise master of internal peace and compassionate nature, give us more of your child like mockery that we may learn from our mistakes and be more like you.

If you had even a clue you would be beyond this bullshit and start maybe talking with general kindness or in a friendship like manner not just trolling and being resentful.

No one is being hurt but you when your being resentful, no one is being insulted but you when you insult, sure i'll call you a douche a dickhead and a noob but I'm always up for a hug or at least a ceasefire because your doing nothing but proving you can't let it go and maybe post a philosophical comment for once instead of a whining one

[brad walker]

I'm 19 now, do I get an extra star?

Brad go throughout this whole forum and see how many of your comments are either an attack or telling people they are constantly hiding/being egotistical/putting on a fake act/bullshitting then keep reading until you wake the fuck up and ask yourself what your hiding from, what inner problems you might be reflecting, then realize how deluded you are being creating conflict where there is previously none, which kind of people create unnecessary conflict constantly?

I forgot, your doing it to teach us right?

....oh wise master of internal peace and compassionate nature, give us more of your child like mockery that we may learn from our mistakes and be more like you.

If you had even a clue you would be beyond this bullshit and start maybe talking with general kindness or in a friendship like manner not just trolling and being resentful.

No one is being hurt but you when your being resentful, no one is being insulted but you when you insult, sure i'll call you a douche a dickhead and a noob but I'm always up for a hug or at least a ceasefire because your doing nothing but proving you can't let it go and maybe post a philosophical comment for once instead of a whining one

Mission accomplished :)

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Thank you, at least it's over.

What's your opinion on bringing about your own suffering/ the idea of karma? Asking because it's gone so far off the thread haha

[brad walker]

Start fires to get burned.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Good, I'll quote you on that next time your lighting flames or trying to cause suffering btw :P It's our own intention that hurts us

[brad walker]

I would hope you would say something more useful than that or your rant that I quoted and emphasized.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

be more like you? I have been ridiculed and so you can be sure I know you, mourned and so you know I have been you, and resented so you can know I don't have any for you, who is none other then a living brother and image of my self, so I only ask don't create the trouble, if I bring it to you and appear to be opposing then return it but at least don't start it, this way it can be avoided completely