i cant understand the existence of god
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settfire1234
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:43 am
i cant understand the existence of god
can you make me understand why god exists.
Re: i cant understand the existence of god
God is a state of consciousness created by us, as humans to explain the unexplained.whatever you believe is real.God is percieved to be everywhere and even athiests cannot explain certain phenomena.God is who/whatever you want it to be.to be a satanist,you have to believe in "GOD".this is not necessarily the reality,it's just how YOU perceive the world.the creator (the essence of LIFE) is everywhere, it's how aware you are of it and your perception is what governs YOUR reality.live life as you want,not how you feel you should, and you may just feel a presence,maybe you won't.maybe you will feel an emmensity that you cannot explain, maybe that is "GOD".It's up to you.welcome to the Matrix haha.
Re: i cant understand the existence of god
If the power of love overtook the love of power, the world would be a better place.Jimi Hendrix.written by my best friend when I was 15, on the back of a Jimi Hendrix dvd, at a catholic highschool before I left...peace and love Toto xodr gonzo wrote:God is a state of consciousness created by us, as humans to explain the unexplained.whatever you believe is real.God is percieved to be everywhere and even athiests cannot explain certain phenomena.God is who/whatever you want it to be.to be a satanist,you have to believe in "GOD".this is not necessarily the reality,it's just how YOU perceive the world.the creator (the essence of LIFE) is everywhere, it's how aware you are of it and your perception is what governs YOUR reality.live life as you want,not how you feel you should, and you may just feel a presence,maybe you won't.maybe you will feel an emmensity that you cannot explain, maybe that is "GOD".It's up to you.welcome to the Matrix haha.
Re: i cant understand the existence of god
settfire1234 wrote:can you make me understand why god exists.
Symmetry.
Re: i cant understand the existence of god
Consider this; if there was no matter in the universe space could not exist.There would be no way of telling one point in space from any other and so, by the principle of the identity of indescernables there would all "collapse" into one point. And , if you are not aware, a point is dimensionless and since space is a dimension , a point of space is no space at all.
What caused the empty "space only" universe to collapse into one point was the symetry it possesed.
Consider this further point; if there was one fundamental unit (call it a quark or whatever you like) and it was alone in the universe , the above scenario (of a colapse of space) would still occur.Assume the quark is perfectly symetrical, then travelling outward from its center to empty space would be an identical operation for all paths you may choose to trace, since you have no way of differentiating one path from another (you cant say one path is closer to another atom than another since it is the only thing in existence) the afforementioned collapse would cause space and this quark to reslove to one point and a point is no_thing at all.
These last two , different, examples show that its not space or matter that causes the colapse but a consequence of something *logical* namely symmetry (as the two cases only resemble each other because symmetry causes the hypothetical universes to collapse).
Now you may think that we are lucky that the universe contains lots of atoms and may beleive that with all this complexity there is no symmetry to cause a collapse but i urge you to think again.
There are many different types of symmetry (infinite in number) and even if they were not infinite we still have not specified the *line* of symmetry which we are using. The more complexity the universe has the more complex the line of symmetry gets but get this , it may not be a straight line (theres no meta symmetry) but it still exists and will still cause a collapse in the universe.
Even if the last part sounds "dicey" when the big bang occured the universe would have had the same symmetry that i showed in example 2 above (the one with the quark) and should have collapsed into nothingness as soon as it formed.
Creation then is a very complex thing and if we leave out design we do so to our own intelectual perril.
What caused the empty "space only" universe to collapse into one point was the symetry it possesed.
Consider this further point; if there was one fundamental unit (call it a quark or whatever you like) and it was alone in the universe , the above scenario (of a colapse of space) would still occur.Assume the quark is perfectly symetrical, then travelling outward from its center to empty space would be an identical operation for all paths you may choose to trace, since you have no way of differentiating one path from another (you cant say one path is closer to another atom than another since it is the only thing in existence) the afforementioned collapse would cause space and this quark to reslove to one point and a point is no_thing at all.
These last two , different, examples show that its not space or matter that causes the colapse but a consequence of something *logical* namely symmetry (as the two cases only resemble each other because symmetry causes the hypothetical universes to collapse).
Now you may think that we are lucky that the universe contains lots of atoms and may beleive that with all this complexity there is no symmetry to cause a collapse but i urge you to think again.
There are many different types of symmetry (infinite in number) and even if they were not infinite we still have not specified the *line* of symmetry which we are using. The more complexity the universe has the more complex the line of symmetry gets but get this , it may not be a straight line (theres no meta symmetry) but it still exists and will still cause a collapse in the universe.
Even if the last part sounds "dicey" when the big bang occured the universe would have had the same symmetry that i showed in example 2 above (the one with the quark) and should have collapsed into nothingness as soon as it formed.
Creation then is a very complex thing and if we leave out design we do so to our own intelectual perril.
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onlyatheistinhere
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:34 pm
Re: i cant understand the existence of god
"God is a state of consciousness created by us, as humans to explain the unexplained.whatever you believe is real.God is percieved to be everywhere and even athiests cannot explain certain phenomena.God is who/whatever you want it to be.to be a satanist,you have to believe in "GOD".this is not necessarily the reality,it's just how YOU perceive the world.the creator (the essence of LIFE) is everywhere, it's how aware you are of it and your perception is what governs YOUR reality.live life as you want,not how you feel you should, and you may just feel a presence,maybe you won't.maybe you will feel an emmensity that you cannot explain, maybe that is "GOD".It's up to you.welcome to the Matrix haha."
"God is a state of consciousness created by us, as humans to explain the unexplained.whatever you believe is real.God is percieved to be everywhere and even athiests cannot explain certain phenomena." Firstly i asusume by atheist u mean scientists. Also atheists as a whole don't claim to explain the phenomena. Sceptics might try using alternative explanations to explain these phenomena but ill admit there are things which we cannot explain (to me this is what makes the universe amazing). If god is a consciousness created by humans arn't you merely refering to a dillusion? If god is created in the human mind to explain the unexplained then god is just a hyothesis we use to solve any problems we can't answer.... why not just admit we don't know?
"God is who/whatever you want it to be" - this is not how most people understand god at all. If god is whatever/whoever you want it to be then god is literally anything or anyone. At this stage god becomes meaningless, it just means any or all conscious beings in the universe and or the universe itself... why would you call that god? it dosnt fit the meaning of the word as most people understand it.. your just misleading people.
"live life as you want,not how you feel you should" i absolutely agree.... what does this have to do with god?
"and you may just feel a presence,maybe you won't.maybe you will feel an emmensity that you cannot explain, maybe that is "GOD".It's up to you" or maybe its aliens or maybe it's ghosts or maybe its pixies.... it's up to you? No it is what it is an unexplained emmensity. it's not a proof of god anymore than it is a proof of the flying spaghetti monster, big foot or reptillians unless you can explain it and show it can or is at least most likely to have come from god. The truth is not up to you. You can believe it is a god but you havnt explained the existance of god you have explained the existance of a belief in god... god exist because people like the idea of a creator doing things rather than aliens or pixies or the scariest fact that we don't know what causes some things!!! *scary music*
"God is a state of consciousness created by us, as humans to explain the unexplained.whatever you believe is real.God is percieved to be everywhere and even athiests cannot explain certain phenomena." Firstly i asusume by atheist u mean scientists. Also atheists as a whole don't claim to explain the phenomena. Sceptics might try using alternative explanations to explain these phenomena but ill admit there are things which we cannot explain (to me this is what makes the universe amazing). If god is a consciousness created by humans arn't you merely refering to a dillusion? If god is created in the human mind to explain the unexplained then god is just a hyothesis we use to solve any problems we can't answer.... why not just admit we don't know?
"God is who/whatever you want it to be" - this is not how most people understand god at all. If god is whatever/whoever you want it to be then god is literally anything or anyone. At this stage god becomes meaningless, it just means any or all conscious beings in the universe and or the universe itself... why would you call that god? it dosnt fit the meaning of the word as most people understand it.. your just misleading people.
"live life as you want,not how you feel you should" i absolutely agree.... what does this have to do with god?
"and you may just feel a presence,maybe you won't.maybe you will feel an emmensity that you cannot explain, maybe that is "GOD".It's up to you" or maybe its aliens or maybe it's ghosts or maybe its pixies.... it's up to you? No it is what it is an unexplained emmensity. it's not a proof of god anymore than it is a proof of the flying spaghetti monster, big foot or reptillians unless you can explain it and show it can or is at least most likely to have come from god. The truth is not up to you. You can believe it is a god but you havnt explained the existance of god you have explained the existance of a belief in god... god exist because people like the idea of a creator doing things rather than aliens or pixies or the scariest fact that we don't know what causes some things!!! *scary music*
Re: i cant understand the existence of god
"God" is a collection of any number of concepts which are ultimately not worth contemplating, as the Buddha suggested. There is nothing fruitful to be gained from endless speculation and debate over the nature of God, which is why it was omitted from original Buddhism.
I live in a tub.