Anti Atheism. Questions for the 'ill-logical;)' Atheists.

[LiquidRainbow]

*Since this was so much fun on facebook I'm going to propose these questions here :). (let the name calling commense!)
These questions burn at the bottom of my soul when I think about intelligent design vs. atheism. *I might join in, I might see what everyone else has to see we'll see.

1.)Would you consider DNA a code/language?

1A.)Have you ever witnessed something non-intelligent source and create or source a code or language randomly?(I refuse to count automated code as it has a source) and remember we came from single-celled organisms that don't have brains?

2.)How much do you know about the universe? 5%(that's being generous)? - Any room that God possibly exists somewhere in there? Why do you not choose agnosticism over atheism then?

3.)How did so many creatures end up using the golden spiral to form themselves.. chance? seriously.. remember a lot of these things are so called 'non-intelligent'? Why do so many 'non-intelligent' life forms use math to create themselves without being able to write? Do these trees, plants, seashells have a better understanding of math than most high schoolers by chance and innately?

4.)Can you please explain the past life experience studies that have been done on children? (If one of them was proved to be true to you would you consider this proof of a higher power?)

4A.)Near Death Experiences(are they all bull, for if they'd have to be in a world without God, at least the Godly ones.)?

5.)Can you give me one example of something that doesn't exist creating something that does Exist?

5A.) We live in a dimension of space-time, is it possible for the source to be part of an intrinsically timeless dimension, thus not having a beginning or end(so it doesn't have to create itself.. to refute hand over hand scenario)? If you think this is unlikely, why?

6.) Do you consider Einstein, Faraday, Newton, Planck, Maxwell and Tesla to arrive at the conclusion that God existed without the use of logic?

[oxytocinNA]

Oh look - I'm the first fish. Damn - I just called myself a name! There is really no challenge here. These questions come from a place of ignorance -not calling you stupid - lack of knowledge of any given topic(s) is ignorance of said topic(s).

*Since this was so much fun on facebook I'm going to propose these questions here :). (let the name calling commense!)
These questions burn at the bottom of my soul when I think about intelligent design vs. atheism. *I might join in, I might see what everyone else has to see we'll see.

1.)Would you consider DNA a code/language?

1A.)Have you ever witnessed something non-intelligent source and create or source a code or language randomly?(I refuse to count automated code as it has a source) and remember we came from single-celled organisms that don't have brains?

2.)How much do you know about the universe? 5%(that's being generous)? - Any room that God possibly exists somewhere in there? Why do you not choose agnosticism over atheism then?

3.)How did so many creatures end up using the golden spiral to form themselves.. chance? seriously.. remember a lot of these things are so called 'non-intelligent'? Why do so many 'non-intelligent' life forms use math to create themselves without being able to write? Do these trees, plants, seashells have a better understanding of math than most high schoolers by chance and innately?

4.)Can you please explain the past life experience studies that have been done on children? (If one of them was proved to be true to you would you consider this proof of a higher power?)

4A.)Near Death Experiences(are they all bull, for if they'd have to be in a world without God, at least the Godly ones.)?

5.)Can you give me one example of something that doesn't exist creating something that does Exist?

5A.) We live in a dimension of space-time, is it possible for the source to be part of an intrinsically timeless dimension, thus not having a beginning or end(so it doesn't have to create itself.. to refute hand over hand scenario)? If you think this is unlikely, why?

6.) Do you consider Einstein, Faraday, Newton, Planck, Maxwell and Tesla to arrive at the conclusion that God existed without the use of logic?

1) You do not understand how change / adaptation occurs.
2) You do not know a couple of critical axioms.
3) See answer to question 1
4) Pointless silliness - See answer to question 2
5) Bull - See answer to question 1 .... 5a) Specifically will not touch this one for important reasons
6) I could care less about anyone's opinion - only facts -also see answer to question 2

There you have it. Hope that helps get your thread rolling.

Edit: I should elaborate a tad. Take question 2. Although not a perfect example of the fallacious nature of the point you were attempting to make:
Do you understand the concept of a combustion engine (just in case - let's say you do - even if not - you may have no interest in this area)? Knowing the basic concept doesn't mean you know everything it takes to make one - metallurgy, proper calibrations etc. If you understand the basic concept you can then work out specifics. The universe is obviously more complex - however fundamental axioms point the way. You assume no one knows such things. Your assumption is incorrect. Just as it is fundamental to use a combustible source as fuel for a combustible engine - the axioms I refer to are as to the nature of the universe. But that is not a complete metaphor (actually it's kind of poor - but I am in a hurry), because the assertion of the character you believe in, fails to meet important criteria (axioms). An analogy to this would be to say: how do you know a combustion engine will not run on leprechauns urine? But that does not address the axiom part. That part of the puzzle is for you.

One last thing: The fundamental mistake you are making is the same mistake that has been made through out human history. When people were ignorant of weather phenomena - Gods were the cause of thunder and lightning.
You do have a right to believe as you wish (it is a part of individual rights).
I can tell you: you a missing critical knowledge.

[LiquidRainbow]

ocNA:

1.) How do you extrapolate this assertion? - Let's play along though, what sort of education would change my mind that DNA is not a complex code or language and is just a bunch of random matrices that formed themselves through chaos theory? And that simple chemistry is able to figure out it's own codes through trial and error with no intelligence guiding it.

2.) Well enlighten me on these critical axioms(sure does make for boring debate when you avoid answering the question) and show me some examples of non-intelligent parts creating language that interacts with itself.

3.) Change and adaptation has an inherit intelligence to itself that is capable of forming the conclusion that using one ratio is the most simple way to handle infinity, okay how did it decide upon this ratio over and over again in different forms and why did it reject other ones without an inherent intelligent order ruling it?

4.) To call something pointless silliness is an ill-formed argument. Quoting Aristotle "A true skeptic demands evidence. A false skeptic rejects it."

5.) Yes of course you cannot. So therefore it is 'bull.' According to you, my inherit lack of knowledge about change and adaptation means that it is pointless for me to ask you of one example of a non-existing thing creating something that does exist. Yet with change and adaptation in every example I've ever seen all life has a tangible source attached to it. Not one thing just appeared out of nowhere, it is just LOGICAL for me to assume that there is a source of what I see today. Your answer is completely invalid regarding the question.

"Can you give me one example of something that does not exist creating something that does exist" Answer: You don't understand change and adaptation. Very insightful, sir.

5a.) Congratulations.

6.) Yet you base all of your opinions off of other people's research and opinions and theories? Funny. I'd be willing to bet not one idea you have is unique and original to yourself, yet you're telling me you don't care about anyone's opinions. There aren't any facts out there when all you have is a moment. Everything that you have not seen with your own eyes(even then it is of question..) is attached to a theory that is only supported by evidence that makes it more likely than other theories.

Also, about your rambling at the end: Please keep it clean and orderly to the points at hand. What you said is just jumbled up stuff that I'm sure makes sense to you but slightly pertains and would make sense if I was less researched. Let's debate the questions and not sit here and point fingers about education, prove to me I don't know what I'm talking about. Hint: These questions are not proof enough.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

LiquidRainbow

Don't every worry about it. There are intelligent fools and Intelligent wise men. Every intelligent wise man knows without a doubt the undeniable need for a cause/creator/designer of our existence.

So to all the atheists that think they know what they are talking about, you have no clue. You think you know a lot, but you are under a massive delusion.

Infact, every single atheist in the world of the scientific mindset are already fundamentally wrong.

Reality is an illusion, nothing exists but sensory experience, you have no control over your thoughts or sensual experiences, there is no "self", only the transient moment.

^ Those conditions, which are all correct, make the need for a creator undeniable and just plain obvious.

Atheists are noobs. Realize how little you actually know, stop pretending, read sacred scriptures, get enlightened, say sorry.

[oxytocinNA]

LiquidRainbow -"6.) 1) Yet you base all of your opinions off of other people's research and opinions and theories? Funny. I'd be willing to bet not one idea you have is unique and original to yourself, yet you're telling me you don't care about anyone's opinions. 2) There aren't any facts out there when all you have is a moment. Everything that you have not seen with your own eyes(even then it is of question..) is attached to a theory that is only supported by evidence that makes it more likely than other theories.

3) 6.) Do you consider Einstein, Faraday, Newton, Planck, Maxwell and Tesla to arrive at the conclusion that God existed without the use of logic?"

I checked back in to clean up some of my post but this is more interesting. First up - there is too much for me to respond to at this point - have to get to work. You could not be more wrong about the first part - humorously so. Second part - you draw upon you first faulty assumption.
Third - back to your original post. A terrific example of bad argumentative technique - an attempt at intimidation via name dropping. The assertion - you can't possibly think to disagree with these people. Oh - I dare ... LOL. Anyway - you threw out proper argumentative technique with this one.

I will check back in when I can to get to more of this.

SeekerOfWisdom - "Reality is an illusion, nothing exists but sensory experience,"
This statement is self contradicting: Reality - is not reality - it is illusion. Nothing exists - but sensory experience - If nothing exists - there is nothing to experience - nor are there sensory input organs attached to a functioning cognitive mind -that parcels out the information for processing - etc.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

but*

Nothing exists except for sensory experience. There is no corresponding physical reality, only consciousness. The universe exists as an illusion of the senses.

VERY simple, very correct, you probably can't understand it yet. It is the fundamental understanding required for enlightenment.

[Kunga]

Nothing exists except for sensory experience. There is no corresponding physical reality, only consciousness. The universe exists as an illusion of the senses.

So God created nothing ? God is consciousness ? There is no creator God ?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

God or Tao is a name for the unknown cause for our experiences.

Our experiences of thought and sensation which are interconnected.

He is the creator of this matrix of experience. He is the creator of reality. We are part of him, we are bearing witness to these divine manifestations. There is no self, only feelings. Thought is not under your control, it is based on your sensual experiences and flows with them. There is an unknown cause of our sensual experiences in which what we call the universe is entirely contained.



- The same thing that wrote this, is reading it. Oneness/tao/god.

[Kunga]

God or Tao is a name for the unknown cause for our experiences.

Our experiences of thought and sensation which are interconnected.

He is the creator of this matrix of experience. He is the creator of reality. We are part of him, we are bearing witness to these divine manifestations. There is no self, only feelings. Thought is not under your control, it is based on your sensual experiences and flows with them. There is an unknown cause of our sensual experiences in which what we call the universe is entirely contained.



- The same thing that wrote this, is reading it. Oneness/tao/god.

How can there be a "we" of "him" if all is One ?
We would be Thee & so would pee !

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Think of it more like a dream, you are the eyes that look into the creations of this higher consciousness. You have no hand in forming them, no control.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Also I am much more intelligent then you since you replied with rhyming about pee

[Kunga]

Also I am much more intelligent then you since you replied with rhyming about pee

That wasn't me...it just flowed....stream of consciousness..... :)

[SeekerOfWisdom]

yes, and some are experiencing less intelligent thoughts.

[LiquidRainbow]

Admittedly, Oxy, I just posted the 6th one to be childish and see if I could make it of any value anyway. It's not an end all.However I do love all my other questions. And please refute my points when you actually have time, not just passing by. People from both sides could probably learn a lot if you actually gave this some serious effort.

edit: When you say I assume no one knows such things you are wrong. If I assumed there were no answers I wouldn't have asked questions, I would have made statements.

[Kunga]

yes, and some are experiencing less intelligent thoughts.

The some is the One :)

[brad walker]

There once was a child named Seeker
Who fashioned himself a great thinker
Between meditation and koans
Grunting upon a porcelain throne
He too dumped detestable stinkers

[Kunga]

LOL

Then when it was time to flush
He discovered it was much too much...
It overFLOWED on the floor
under the door
and
he swore
not to whore
his smarty-ass
anymore

[SeekerOfWisdom]

I was only fashioned a great thinker by beating everyone else repeatedly, no other way really. You guys are caught up in unexamined and unintelligent mindsets, that like to make up shitty rhymes and show nothing else but a lack of ability to present your own viewpoints/arguments, and so you keep rhyming, and will keep avoiding having to say anything of intelligence, in fear of being shown the fools that you are.

If i am not correct, prove me wrong, If I am correct, continue to prove me right.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Not to mention, you are probably atheists... anyone of intelligence has read this and already known that makes you unintelligent.

[brad walker]

"You" mad, bro?

[Kunga]

shitty rhymes

hahaha...good one :)

Stop your bragging & ad-hominems SOW
It's not the way of the Tao.

[Kunga]

"You" mad, bro?

I think he is a she (sounds like Donna !!!)

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Way of the Tao is to go with the natural flow, so it was.

Not mad, we are all only on here because we have nothing better we could be bothered doing, obviously, you noobs are being amusing while I have a koan? as one of you guessed.

Which drugs do you guys mostly use?

[brad walker]

Love and Imagination. Anytime, anywhere, dial *1 for a free sample!

[SeekerOfWisdom]

*1