The Toolbox of the Master

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Ryan Rudolph
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The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

There are many approaches to inspire an interest in philosophy in others, which depend on ones personality, ones personal interests and ones overall temperament compared to who you are dealing with at the time. After a discussion with Cory, and things he has brought up, I have given more thought to the possible approaches of the philosopher to inspire philosophical interest and spiritual growth in others.

1. Logic through idealism: It is direct confrontation, it wounds, it challenges. However, it seems to me that this approach will only succeed in robust souls that can take a lot of pain, have a high emotional pain tolerance, or are ready for such a challenge. The problem is that many souls are not ready for such a rigorous challenge at whatever point they are in their lives, and the fact is that they may never be ready for that type of challenge.

2. Psychological healing: This is where you provide them with gentle psychological insights that may aid them in overcoming some sort of emotional issue, which can essentially build them up to be ready for a bit of idealism/logic. Also, some people may never reach god realms, but you can at least pull them out of the hell realms. Sometimes, fragile souls just need some acceptance and a therapist or general guidance. Not the absolute attack of the philosopher.

3. Seduction through art/also done for personal enjoyment: This approach is where you fuse both of the above approaches into aesthetically pleasing mediums such as comedy, metaphor, analogy, music, vibrant photography, quotes, poetic language and all the rest of it. The audience may benefit, and you benefit yourself as it is like a prayer, an enjoyable activity, and a reminder of the path.

4. Teacher-relative creativity – This is the idea where the teacher uses imperfections and flaws in his own personality as a creative muse, and uses that material to invoke understanding in others. It seems to me that anybody with any sort of intellectual gift or philosophical gift is going to have lopsided imperfections and character flaws that hijack him from time to time, so why not use this as a muse? Because it is universal to all anyway.

It is also important to discuss the notion of sensitivity, meaning should you treat all people exactly the same? I realize there is no right or wrong, but the fact of the matter is if you throw out some unrealistic idealism in a group of totally unreflective humans, who have never picked up a philosophy book and have no interest, it is the equivalent of beating a bucket full of wounded ducks with a wooden paddle, it doesn’t accomplish anything, so why bother? It is just the infliction of suffering without benefit. Because suffering without the potential for growth seems rather harsh and unnecessary to me.
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:
2. Psychological healing: This is where you provide them with gentle psychological insights that may aid them in overcoming some sort of emotional issue, which can essentially build them up to be ready for a bit of idealism/logic. Also, some people may never reach god realms, but you can at least pull them out of the hell realms. Sometimes, fragile souls just need some acceptance and a therapist or general guidance. Not the absolute attack of the philosopher.

3. Seduction through art/also done for personal enjoyment: This approach is where you fuse both of the above approaches into aesthetically pleasing mediums such as comedy, metaphor, analogy, music, vibrant photography, quotes, poetic language and all the rest of it. The audience may benefit, and you benefit yourself as it is like a prayer, an enjoyable activity, and a reminder of the path.
There's an overlap between seduction, healing, shamanism, and it also relates to Kierkegaard's dialectical redoubling.

An interesting goal would be to get the general population, say, North America, to respect spiritual philosophers. I think the key to doing that is through folk music, country music and the best of rock and roll, but also combining those with visual art and aphorism.

Kierkegaard said that a woman couldn't transform through the dialectical redoubling, however, I believe they can, it just requires getting past the sexual phase of their life.

I'm not sure if there is an official record of Regina Olsen saying this, but a close family member of hers wrote that "she knew 'that SK took her with him into history.' And this thought made up for what she had suffered."

This is the basis of the dialectical redoubling, it's basically taking a very low thing, and seeing it as the source of a very important high. Men find this type of thinking much more natural, as they pride themselves for the hardship that makes their virtues possible, the pain that brings joy, the death that brings life.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Cory,

That is an aspect of Kierkegaard I didn't fully understand. Another thing to mention is that each philosopher creates a sort of personality meme, and some of the traits are inevitably transferred into the general population by those who are inspired. I now see your motivation for devaluing guys like Christoper Hitchens because his cruel wit is infectious and encourages the clever to take easy jabs at the weak.

Guys like Lao Tzu and Kierkegaard were quite different, if one studies some of the subtlety in their works, they seemed to leave evidence of a rare blend of psychological traits no?
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Cory Duchesne »

From DQ's Kierkegaard compilation:
Basically it is terrible but true, and it expresses the dreadful extent to which it is true - Christianity simply does not exit. This is the real situation in Christendom, especially in Protestantism. The men - and that means the miserable weaklings and clods that are called men these days, compared to the Oriental idea of what it is to be a man - men turn away from religion with a certain pride and egotism and say: Religion( Christianity) is something for women and children. But the truth of the matter is that Christianity as it is found in the New Testament has such prodigious aims that, strictly speaking, it cannot be a religion for women, at most second-hand, and is impossible for children.

As a psychologist I maintain that no woman can endure a dialectical redoubling, and everything that is essentially Christian is intrinsically dialectical. The essentially Christian task requires a man, it takes a man's toughness and strength simply to be able to bear the pressure of the task. A good which is identified by its hurting, a deliverance which is identified by its making me unhappy, a grace which is identified by suffering, etc. - all this, and everything essentially Christian is like this, no woman can bear, she will lose her mind if she is to be put under the tension of this strenuousness.

As far as children are concerned, it is sheer nonsense that they are supposed to be Christians. A woman and, above all, a child relate to things directly and breathe the air of directness and immediacy. If something is a good, well then it must be recognizable by its doing good; there is no use in forcing a woman( I will not even mention the child) into a good that hurts - it would break her. Just notice why it is that a woman cannot tolerate irony, that as far as her emotions are concerned irony is fatal. Is this not because she cannot bear the dialectical?

What I would like to add is that older women do seem to appreciate irony and paradox, they're just a bit slower to get it. While a man might reflect on the ages of 15-20 and clearly see the irony and paradox in life, it might take a woman until the age of 50 before she starts to get it. When she does start to appreciate it, a whole new world is there for her... hundreds of good country/folk songs are there for old ladies who want to enjoy the irony of life. That's perhaps why, traditionally, the later part of one's life is called the "Golden Years".
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Bob Michael »

Cory Duchesne wrote: There's an overlap between seduction, healing, shamanism, and it also relates to Kierkegaard's dialectical redoubling.

"Dialectical redoubling?" If you're to ever be of any real value to the evolutionary process, Cory, I suggest you come down to earth and take into consideration those good souls who may have had a limited education and thereby have a limited vocabulary and put such 'high-minded' words and phrases aside.
Cory Duchesne wrote: An interesting goal would be to get the general population, say, North America, to respect spiritual philosophers.

Dream on, my friend. That is until you hopefully fully wake up to reality and the tragic facts of life.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Bob Michael wrote:
Cory Duchesne wrote:
There's an overlap between seduction, healing, shamanism, and it also relates to Kierkegaard's dialectical redoubling.


"Dialectical redoubling?" If you're to ever be of any real value to the evolutionary process, Cory, I suggest you come down to earth and take into consideration those good souls who may have had a limited education and thereby have a limited vocabulary and put such 'high-minded' words and phrases aside.
Translating Kierkegaard's language into something people can understand is valuable to me and my friend Ryan, probably to David, too. And we are part of the evolutionary process, so my suggestion is you take a little time to reflect and return to my thread with some humility.

An interesting goal would be to get the general population, say, North America, to respect spiritual philosophers.
Dream on, my friend. That is until you hopefully fully wake up to reality and the tragic facts of life.

Actually, I've already succeeded in this, so my task I suppose is to succeed a bit more, and something tells me you might be enslaved to the narcissism that would make any cooperation with me unlikely.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Some Otto W. quotes, for a modern shaman:


Cremation is Dionysian.
Burial is Apollonian.
Resurrection of the flesh is not affected by burning.


--

The problem of individuality is the problem of vanity. That there are many souls is
the consequence of vanity. The criminal is vain because he desires singularity. One
needs the onlooker, the theatre, the pose. Thereby the second person arises. Thereby
the criminal is homosexual.


-

The artist must create something of rather less worth than the philosopher, for he
is more dependent on the moment than the latter.


-

The genius does not need the transcendental method, because he has enough
certainty in his normal intuition.


--

Lack of unity in the sea! Totality is here; but unity is missing.
That is why the criminal splinters and renounces unity of consciousness.


--

Recovery means: to reunite with the All. Sickness means loneliness

--

The older a person becomes, the more he looks into the future, not only into the
past. The child has absolutely no relationship to his future.


--

The purifying effect of fire indicates that even this element serves the Good.

--

Among the notable things about fire is that it also requires oxygen to burn -
exactly like its enemy, life. Thereby are life and flames so often compared.


--

The dog is the criminal who continually seeks to refute others in order to justify
himself (barking!). But he can only do that when he is the slave of a master.


--

The problem of the sick person is the problem of space.
The problem of the criminal is the problem of time


--

A river’s peril is becoming a swamp. An ocean’s?
Whirlpools.


--

The bird is the Apollonian animal?

--

The ape is the man who makes a buffoon of himself: one sees in him the sadness
over this.


--

The criminal dies from inside (time), the sick person from outside (space).

--

The greater the work of art, the less chance is allowed to be there.

--

Every man creates his woman, perhaps two women for himself: a prostitute, a
mother. Whether he makes a mother of her or not? It is dependent only upon his
relationship to the ethical


--

Men will have to overcome their dislike for masculine women, for that is no more than a mean egoism. If women ever become masculine by becoming logical and ethical, they would no longer be such good material for man's projection; but that is not a sufficient reason for the present method of tying woman down to the needs of her husband and children and forbidding her certain things because they are masculine.

--

For even if the possibility of morality is incompatible with the idea of the absolute woman, it does not follow that man is to make no effort to save the average woman from further deterioration; much less is he to help to keep woman as she is. In every living woman the presence of what Kant calls "the germ of good" must be assumed; it is the remnant of a free state which makes it possible for woman to have a dim notion of her destiny. The theoretical possibility of grafting much more on this "germ of good" should never be lost sight of, even although nothing has ever been done, or even if nothing could ever be done in that respect.

--

It seems to me that if we look the facts of the case in the face there are only two possible courses open for women: either to pretend to accept man's ideas, and to think that they believe what is really opposed to their whole, unchanged nature, to assume a horror of immorality (as if they were moral themselves), of sexuality (as if they desired platonic love); or to openly admit that they are wrapped up in husband and children, without being conscious of all that such an admission implies, of the shamelessness and self-immolation of it.

--

Unconscious hypocrisy, or cynical identification with their natural instincts; nothing else seems possible for woman.

--

Friedrich Nietzsche says in one of his books: "To underestimate the real difficulties of the man and woman problem, to fail to admit the abysmal antagonism and the inevitable nature of the constant strain between the two, to dream of equal rights, education, responsibilities and duties, is the mark of the superficial observer, and any thinker who has been found shallow in these difficult places - shallow by nature - should be looked upon as untrustworthy, as a useless and treacherous guide; he will, no doubt, be one of those who 'briefly deal with' all the real problems of life, death and eternity - who never gets to the bottom of things. But the man who is not superficial, who has depth of thought as well as of purpose, the depth which not only makes him desire right but endows him with determination and strength to do right, must always look on woman from the oriental standpoint:- as a possession, as private property, as something born to serve and be dependent on him - he must see the marvellous reasonableness of the Asiatic instinct of superiority over women, as the Greeks of old saw it, those worthy successors and disciples of the Eastern school. It was an attitude towards woman which, as is well known, from Homer's time till that of Pericles, grew with the growth of culture, and increased in strength step by step, and gradually became quite oriental. What a necessary, logical, desirable growth for mankind! if we could only attain to it ourselves!"

Even technically the problem of humanity is not soluble for man alone; he has to consider woman even if he only wishes to redeem himself; he must endeavour to get her to abandon her immoral designs on him. Women must really and truly and spontaneously relinquish coitus. That undoubtedly means that woman, as woman, must disappear, and until that has come to pass there is no possibility of establishing the kingdom of God on earth. Pythagoras, Plato, Christianity (as opposed to Judaism), Tertullian, Swift, Wagner, Ibsen, all these have urged the freedom of woman, not the emancipation of woman from man, but rather the emancipation of woman from herself.

It is only in this way that the eternal opposition to all anti- feministic tendencies can be avoided; the view that says, since woman is there, being what she is, and not to be altered, man must endeavour to make terms with her; it is useless to fight, because there is nothing which can be exterminated. But it has been shown that woman is negative and ceases to exist the moment man determines to be nothing but true existence.

This woman question is as old as sex itself, and as young as mankind. And the answer to it? Man must free himself of sex, for in that way, and that way alone, can he free woman. In his purity, not, as she believes, in his impurity, lies her salvation. She must certainly be destroyed, as woman; but only to be raised again from the ashes - new, restored to youth - as a real human being.

Truth will not prevail until the two become one, until from man and woman a third self, neither man nor woman, is evolved.

Every form of fecundity is loathsome, and no one who is honest with himself feels bound to provide for the continuity of the human race. And what we do not realise to be a duty, is not a duty.

Sexual union has no place in the idea of mankind, not because ascetism is a duty, but because in it woman becomes the object, the cause, and man does what he will with her, looks upon her merely as a "thing," not as a living human being with an inner, psychic, existence. And so man despises woman the moment coitus is over, and the woman knows that she is despised, even although a few minutes before she thought herself adored.

The only thing to be respected in man is the idea of mankind; this disparagement of woman (and himself), induced by coitus, is the surest proof that it is opposed to that idea of mankind. Any one who is ignorant of what this Kantian "idea of mankind" means, may perhaps understand it when he thinks of his sisters, his mother, his female relatives; it concerns them all: for our own sakes, then, woman ought to be treated as human, respected and not degraded, all sexuality implying degradation.

No being in the transition stage between freedom and slavery can be happy. But will woman choose to abandon slavery in order to become unhappy? The question is not merely if it is possible for woman to become moral. It is this: is it possible for woman really to wish to realize the problem of existence, the conception of guilt? Can she really desire freedom? This can happen only by her being penetrated by an ideal, brought to the guiding star. It can happen only if the categorical imperative were to become active in woman; only if woman can place herself in relation to the moral idea, the idea of humanity.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Cory,
I now see your motivation for devaluing guys like Christoper Hitchens because his cruel wit is infectious and encourages the clever to take easy jabs at the weak.
That's a part of it. Hitchen's was a narcissist and it rubbed off on younger people. The most despicable characteristic of Hitchens is the lack of proportion between his eagerness to tear down religion, and his positive contributions. For instance, what would have been positive would have been an interest in pointing out the virtues of religion, or more importantly, the virtues of spiritual teachers such as Buddha, Lau Tzu or Jesus. He did nothing of the sort, and even made the effort to cover them over, or discount the validity of such philosophers. The guy was totally out of his depth, but luckily, we have some new guys like Alain De Botton who are shining a light on his shadow. Based on other observations I made around that time, Hitchen's died at a very symbolic time in history, I think.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

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Cory Duchesne wrote:Actually, I've already succeeded in this, so my task I suppose is to succeed a bit more, and something tells me you might be enslaved to the narcissism that would make any cooperation with me unlikely.
My sense is that at best you're in the 'pink cloud' stage of the process, Cory. Or, as is sometimes said in A. A., the '90 day wonder' stage. Which is a normal and necessary stage in the whole process of awakening and enlightenment, but one in which reality has not yet fully set in. Hence your clearly obvious 'running' to and fro. And to absolutely nowhere in any spiritually meaningful or productive manner or direction.

True "cooperation" happens of itself, it can't be made to happen. And rare are those who can truly do so on a genuine spiritual plane. Whereas friends of logic, reason, and evasive outer-focusing are rather easy to find, if they can really be called friends at all.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Cory Duchesne »

I'll agree we're in a different place. If you need to believe I'm at the pink cloud stage, go for it. It's your loss, not mine.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

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Cory Duchesne wrote:I'll agree we're in a different place. If you need to believe I'm at the pink cloud stage, go for it. It's your loss, not mine.
I said "at best" you're in the 'pink cloud' stage of the process. And with that I'll keep my real thoughts on the matter to myself. Remembering here that a few words to the wise (or the potentially wise) will suffice. All-in-all, have a pleasant evening, Cory. It's time for me to go and snuggle up against my honey and get some Zs. Tomorrow I must rise up early and head out on the firing line of life and continue to work on my Ark.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Don't I know how the honey keeps the stinger strong. :) Best to you, Bob, good luck on the Ark.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

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Cory Duchesne wrote:Don't I know how the honey keeps the stinger strong. :)
Such sort of humor is perhaps acceptable to share among kindred spirits, Cory. But amongst the general public I find it's in bad taste. It serves only to reinforce and perpetuate the human madness. Tis a season for everything under the sun, remember?

True enlightenment entails the development of character and maturing into fullness of manhood. One can no longer be one of the boys or feed into their monkey-business.
Cory Duchesne wrote:Best to you, Bob, good luck on the Ark.
Thanks, Cory. And best of luck to you too. It's truly a wonderful thing to love even those one doesn't necessarily see eye-to-eye with. Which of course could change in time, though on the other hand it may not. Which is ok too.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Dennis Mahar »

You can't live on love alone Bob,
How do the relationships between Ark people happen.

Are leaders elected.
Are men and women monogamous or polygomous.
How are tasks assigned.
Is there a code of ethics.
Is there a judicial system enforcing code transgressions.

What's the set-up?
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

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Dennis wrote:You can't live on love alone, Bob.
I too have often made mention of Love's necessary companions - Truth and Wisdom. And If you're referring to money here, it will come when and as it's necessary. Anyway, here are my best thoughts on the Ark project for now. Which are of course subject to change.
Dennis wrote:How do the relationships between Ark people happen?
By attraction via word of mouth among those who are thoroughly sick and tired of the rottenness of human condition and their entanglement in it and are seeking something beyond it all. Who are then willing to go to any lengths to totally engage themselves in the individual and collective process of self- and world-overcoming. Which also involves a total transformation of conscience or consciousness.
Dennis wrote:Are leaders elected?
There'll be only one leader, at least for starters.
Dennis wrote:Are the men and women monogamous or polygomous?
This depends upon each individual's developmental level and choice. Though eventually and ultimately I feel monagamy will most likely satisfyingly prevail among all.
Dennis wrote:How are tasks assigned?
According to individual skills and abilities. Plus an enthusiatic, energetic, and flexible voluntarist and giving attitude will prevail.
Dennis wrote:Is there a code of ethics?
Not as such. Rather a responsible eagerness for right action and true cooperation (which automatically manifest from Love) by people who will know what the 'rules' are without having to be told what they are.
Dennis wrote:Is there a judicial system enforcing code transgressions?
Not in any traditional sense. The truth softly, politely, and compassionately (but firmly) disseminated will be the sole governing force. Transgressions will be rare and relatively minor and short-lived, if there are any at all.
Dennis wrote:What's the set-up?
It will begin with a fellowship of two and gradually grow (most likely slowly) from there. To what final size, location, and configuration it will eventually assume is wide open to speculation. As is of course change. Since the project will be a truly open-ended spiritual adventure rather than a rigidly planned mundane one. The "World of the Spirit" (Pg. 84 - A. A. 'Big Book') is an entirely new and different ball game, Dennis.

And let me add this. The Captain is a restless soul. One that is dead serious about all of this and has absolutely no interest in the things or the ways of this terribly fallen and lost human world. Which is coming to include nearly all online discussion forum activity. He also clearly senses what is downright foolishness and what is sane, or potentially sane, human actions and behaviors everywhere in life. The latter being almost totally non-existent among the thoroughly desensitized and dehumanized younger generations especially. Of course there are always a few exceptions here and there to the 'rules', thank God! Without which there would be no hope at all for the human species.
__________________________________________________

It is not only in our nightmares that we have seen these empty faces and ridgid forms before: we have seen them on the street, in broad daylight, as faces in the crowd, strangers on a bus, anonymous figures in the background of the cityscape. They exist in fact, they are really out there; but in their lifelessness, their absence of affect and their vacancy of expression they assume an air of unreality, like manikins or marionettes. The illusion of their being the "living dead" is not pure fantasy; they correspond in actuality to our deepest human intuition of their nature and their portent. Thus Stanton Lyman in his book The Seven Deadly Sins, referring to the proliferation in our midst of "asocial formations of strangers, marginal men, disaffiliated persons, lonely crowds, and uprooted masses" who share an attenuation of the normal human capacity for feeling observes:

These people are not dead in the conventional sense, nor indeed are they likely to kill themselves in acts of release from dreadful ennui. However, they might form corps of living corpses, legions of zombies, who, because of their defection from living, prey upon those who have not yet fallen into the cavern of contemporary despair. ('The Dehumanization of Man' by Montagu & Matson)

Note: Oh how clearly I see these "Corps of Living Corpses" in action everywhere. Talk about blind and lost but nevertheless ravenous wolves in sheep's clothing!
__________________________________________________

And so I walk the streets, aware of the pervasive ugliness of the people in this most fortunate nation (USA), the lines of hurt and anxiety and greed around their eyes and mouths, the imbalance of their walk, the deformation of their bodies. Oh no it is not genetic. Civilization has twisted and scarred those bodies as surely as it has damaged and tortured the face of the planet. And I consider the subtle hate that often underlies the most casual interchange. And the specific karma we have built up in this country by our specific treatment of blacks and Indians and orientals, the result of which we now suffer and will go on suffering. And the self-righteous hostility among some of those who march for peace ("Peace On You," one of the signs reads). And the bristling animosity in some who would loose their "love" on the world. And the physical and psychic garbage in the dwelling places of some who proclaim the new lifestyles. And the elitism and divisiveness among the theorists and activsts who would create a reformed culture. And the growing intransigence of those who would maintain the old culture. And the impersonal greed of the giant corporations and unions and governing bureaucracies. And the weight of the past, the ponderous, ever-pressing, immovable weight, as heavy as the earth itself. (George B. Leonard - 'The Transformation')
__________________________________________________

Our universe is not merely bankrupt; there remains no dividend at all; it has not simply liquidated; it has gone clean out of existence, leaving not a wrack behind.....The writer sees the world as a jaded world devoid of recuperative power. In the past he has liked to think that man could pull out of his entanglements and start a new creative phase of human living. In the face of our universal inadequacy, that optimism has given place to a stoical cynicism.....Ordinary man is at the end of his tether. Only a small, highly adaptable minority of the species can possibly survive. (H. G. Wells)
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Bob,
thanks for that.
World of Spirit is possible or a Society gathered together as an expression of spiritual principles.
That's what Sangha means.

Spiritually sick to my way of understanding is a condition associated with the degree one is identified with the body.
The body appears to have an operating system of its own.

Its special areas of concern appear to be:
where it is on the social ladder.
how it can get sex.
how to get money.

So fearful is it, the identification as body,
it will pay lip service only to a sustainable spiritual orientation.

I'm happy to draw the distinction that what human being incorporates is,
'spirit, mind, body'

To get at the experience of Serenity (spirit),
to me,
means getting the logic right (mentation),
in relation to overcoming the fearful, greedy concerns of body identification.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by David Quinn »

Bob Michael wrote:
Cory Duchesne wrote:Don't I know how the honey keeps the stinger strong. :)
Such sort of humor is perhaps acceptable to share among kindred spirits, Cory. But amongst the general public I find it's in bad taste.
Oh oh, being offended is not a good sign, Bob. It reveals a bad conscience, probably stemming from the lie that your sacred "unconditional love" is not just another instance of ordinary conditional love.

They do say that prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. We can also add that it is probably the most common and demeaning as well. Yet here you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes by painting it as sacred and desiring to include it in your ark. No wonder you're so touchy!

-
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Bob's abandonment of logic in favour of "surrender to movement" suddenly makes perfect sense.

Surrendering to the movement between your legs, Bob?

Toolbox of the master, indeed.
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Bob Michael »

Dennis wrote:Bob, thanks for that.
Thanks for your interest and questions, Dennis. Writing continues to help my mind become more and more centered and focused, along with growing in self-understanding/self-annhilation. Which includes helping to 'fully' erase the old fundamentally false and long-playing 'tapes' that were instilled in my mind and being by the self-centered world I was once choicelessly very much a part of. Whereby new tapes begin to play loud and clear and all the old habits, self-doubts, fear, and insecurities gradually fade away. And if helps someone else that's fine too.
Dennis wrote:World of Spirit is possible or a Society gathered together as an expression of spiritual principles. That's what Sangha means.
Never heard that particular term, but I just know such a society is not only possible but vitally necessary in order for the human species to have a worthwhile future.
Dennis wrote:Spiritually sick to my way of understanding is a condition associated with the degree one is identified with the body. The body appears to have an operating system of its own. Its special areas of concern appear to be: where it is on the social ladder. How it can get sex. How to get money.
I understand the point you're trying to make, but I put the 'blame' all on the mind, the conscience. Which is the mover and the governor of the body. But the minds or consciences of most people have been so thoroughly malformed and desensitized by their fundamentally cold and callous (and often abusive) parental and societal conditioning that they have no sense of what is true and what is false in regards to what is rightful or authentic human behavior and being. Hence, they blindly or unconsciously become eager and willing practitioners of the 'seven deadly sins', which are mirrored by society everywhere. And they are quite 'happy' and 'content' in doing so (Nietzsche also clearly realized that 'society is a hall of distorted mirrors'). Though actually they're miserable, empty, despairing, and fearful human beings, but they're too desensitized to deeply realize this fact or do anything about it. Hence, as it was said of old, our human world continues to be but a thing of 'the blind leading the blind', and/or the blind following the blind. And since no one anywhere is breaking out of the universal pattern, nor are most people at all capable of doing so, there's a big and quite ugly 'ditch' called Armageddon by some soon ahead.
Dennis wrote:So fearful is it, the identification as body, it will pay lip service only to a sustainable spiritual orientation.
Lip service and false prophets are everywhere in these last days. They serve to help calm the subtle, but ever present, fear, anxiety, and despair in people till the next Sunday. But of course lip service and false prophets are not only in the churches, they're everywhere including in high offices. And I find that the "sustainable spirital orientation" you mention in even the best of spiritual practitioners is deeply rooted in what Chogyam Trungpa called "spiritual materialism." Which serves only to bolster and reinforce the ego rather than destroy it.
Dennis wrote:I'm happy to draw the distinction that what human being incorporates is, 'spirit, mind, body'
Yes, but just where are such people with a harmoniously balanced trinity of mind, body, and spirit? In fullness of action ('right'-action)?
Dennis wrote:To get at the experience of Serenity (spirit), to me, means getting the logic right (mentation), in relation to overcoming the fearful, greedy concerns of body identification.
Yes, getting the "mentation" (mental activity) right. But I maintain that this right mental activity is beyond logic. And it can't be accomplished by the mind as it is, which is what logic attempts in vain to do. Hence it will never find true equilibrium or rest. And true equilibrium must go beyond just the mind to the equilibrium of the mind, body, and spirit. Right mentation can only (begin to) take place when there occurs a radical shift from the mind functioning in a mental-rational (logical-rational) manner to its functioning in an arational-aperspectival (intuitive and all-knowing) manner. Or as U. G. Krishnamurti put it, a shift from a 'self-protective thought' manner of functioning to a 'natural state' of functioning. J. Krishnamurti said the mind must come to see and understand the workings of itself, the movement of its thoughts. See too G. Krishna's similar though more expansive view below.(*) David Bohm felt that our conditioning damages our brains and that a damaged brain cannot overcome its own damage. With this I agree totally. And have stated often that most people's brains have been irreparably damaged by their conditioning. While only a relatively few have escaped such damage. Though their minds function in wrongful manner, since they are surrounded by and far out numbered by their irreparably mind damaged fellows and their inauthentic, disspirited, and errant behaviors, attitudes, actions, and activities.

Yet when it was all said and done, none of these men, deeply as they may have gone into the matter, ever came up with an effective approach for the radical transformation (shift in mind function) of others.

Quite frankly, while writing this has been another good exercise for myself, I doubt if my efforts here will very likely be of any value to anyone else. Primarily because it's simply not the right approach for the liberation of others. And I too could also come to the end of my days being a failure, though I don't think this is going to happen. The right approach is being developed and the Ark project shall succeed.

(*)The mind that has no knowledge about its own nature and is not able to fathom its own subliminable depths nor understand the intricacies of the body in which it lives is not in the position, because of its inherent limitations, to apprehend the inconceivable proportions of the superintelligent force which runs through every creature, large and small, wherever life is found, from one end of the universe to the other. (Gopi Krishna)

"The hero of the future will be a man of tragic awareness." (Nietzsche)
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Bob Michael
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Bob Michael »

David Quinn wrote:Oh oh, being offended is not a good sign, Bob. It reveals a bad conscience, probably stemming from the lie that your sacred "unconditional love" is not just another instance of ordinary conditional love.

They do say that prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. We can also add that it is probably the most common and demeaning as well. Yet here you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes by painting it as sacred and desiring to include it in your ark. No wonder you're so touchy!
A man who loves and consequently understands is never offended, David. Though often his words of truth may offend others. Whereupon he sits back with both a tear and a smile, observes how they react, and quietly goes on about his business.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Bob,

When you had your breakthru' 36 years ago.

Was it a consequence of a particular track of reasoning presented to you, that you were able to hear that day?

Something clicked in place?

What happened?
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David Quinn
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Re: The Toolbox of the Master

Post by David Quinn »

Bob Michael wrote:
David Quinn wrote:Oh oh, being offended is not a good sign, Bob. It reveals a bad conscience, probably stemming from the lie that your sacred "unconditional love" is not just another instance of ordinary conditional love.

They do say that prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. We can also add that it is probably the most common and demeaning as well. Yet here you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes by painting it as sacred and desiring to include it in your ark. No wonder you're so touchy!
A man who loves and consequently understands is never offended, David. Though often his words of truth may offend others. Whereupon he sits back with both a tear and a smile, observes how they react, and quietly goes on about his business.
Whizz....crunch!

The fixed, iron mask with the pretty spiritual colours painted on slams back into place - burying everything, allowing nothing to escape - and all is right with the world once again.....

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