Altruism

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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uncledote
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Re: Altruism

Post by uncledote »

A=A[/quote]
Blair=Smug Cunt
Discuss[/quote]
No one is buying your shit, dote. You have Amish where you live? The "c" word rears his ugly head........

Why don't you put a few sentences together and then a few paragraphs of what you know on the topic you presented. "You" need to defend, not "we".[/quote]


Another irrelevant 'sniper'. Who is 'we?' You and Blair? The very fact that I ask questions means I am certainly not a self proclaimed expert but a mere seeker. Blanket, smug responses from flabby snipers like Blair and your good self merit the 'c' word where I come from. The 'c' word is just a little expletive - it does not have to be elevated to be kingpin of four letter words as seems to happen in the US. Where I come from it is common parlance and can often be a prized from of inverted affection.

Define 'shit'.
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Tomas
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Re: Altruism

Post by Tomas »

What do you know about the Amish?
Don't run to your death
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uncledote
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Re: Altruism

Post by uncledote »

Tomas wrote:What do you know about the Amish?
Gelassenheit

Well, I have equal interest in their rejection of technological innovation and those 'utopian' engineers / scientists who have faith in technological progress and transhumanism.
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mental vagrant
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Re: Altruism

Post by mental vagrant »

uncledote wrote:A=A
Blair=Smug Cunt
Discuss[/quote]
No one is buying your shit, dote. You have Amish where you live? The "c" word rears his ugly head........

Why don't you put a few sentences together and then a few paragraphs of what you know on the topic you presented. "You" need to defend, not "we".[/quote]


Another irrelevant 'sniper'. Who is 'we?' You and Blair? The very fact that I ask questions means I am certainly not a self proclaimed expert but a mere seeker. Blanket, smug responses from flabby snipers like Blair and your good self merit the 'c' word where I come from. The 'c' word is just a little expletive - it does not have to be elevated to be kingpin of four letter words as seems to happen in the US. Where I come from it is common parlance and can often be a prized from of inverted affection.

Define 'shit'.[/quote]

Depends on what the question is and how it is asked. Given here on this forum the only shape conversation can be (supposed) is singular, you're expected to have an initial position and allow your senses to obliterate your stupidity in the quest for immortalisation. But this said, i think it's ok to ask questions in other formats to. Perhaps you can transcend your more primal urges to circumvent your 'assailents' by force of hammer, electrify them and your lightning shall be shared amoungst the heavens lighting the sky. We can see as one.
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Tomas
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Life and Death in America

Post by Tomas »

uncledote wrote:
Tomas wrote:What do you know about the Amish?
Gelassenheit
Well, I have equal interest in their rejection of technological innovation and those 'utopian' engineers / scientists who have faith in technological progress and transhumanism.
Here's a couple very recent stories when "utopian civilizations" clash.

Girl driving buggy in Amish Ohio area fatally shot
FREDERICKSBURG, Ohio- Members of a close knit Amish community gathered Saturday night to mourn the death of a 15-year-old girl, who was shot to death under circumstances that are shrouded in mystery.

-video and story
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-amish-comm ... 5223.story

And the 'update' to the above
Ohio Sheriff: Accident led to Amish girl's death

A man cleaning his muzzle-loading rifle accidentally shot and killed the girl, who was driving a buggy more than a mile away
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45738811/ns/us_news-life

..............................

Girl, 11, killed in Amish wagon crash; man arrested

CONGRESS TOWNSHIP, Ohio- An 11-year-old girl was killed, and her family was injured, when a suspected drunk driver slammed into the back of an Amish farm wagon Friday night

-see mug shot of 'alleged' drunk driver-
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-girl-kille ... 5006.story
Don't run to your death
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uncledote
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Re: Altruism

Post by uncledote »

eyekwah wrote:uncledote, the Amish have a hold on their society like a chieftain has a hold on his tribe, which is to say, through authority they are led. On a national scale, that doesn't work. The king had to rely on his dukes to provide him with money, and the dukes had to rely on their counts, etc. Ultimately, the people listened to the authority that was sitting in the castle at the top of the hill, not the king. Even then, monarchy only works because people are brainwashed into thinking that doing anything other than what your told is a suicide note. You could argue that a king may have the authority to develop a utopia, but by definition, it would require a dystopia to get there.

Alternatively, a dictator has absolute power, moreso than a king, but he works by fear. I think fear and utopia don't go hand in hand, do you?

Do you have a preferred system?
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uncledote
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Re: Life and Death in America

Post by uncledote »

Tomas wrote:
uncledote wrote:
Tomas wrote:What do you know about the Amish?
Gelassenheit
Well, I have equal interest in their rejection of technological innovation and those 'utopian' engineers / scientists who have faith in technological progress and transhumanism.
Here's a couple very recent stories when "utopian civilizations" clash.

Girl driving buggy in Amish Ohio area fatally shot
FREDERICKSBURG, Ohio- Members of a close knit Amish community gathered Saturday night to mourn the death of a 15-year-old girl, who was shot to death under circumstances that are shrouded in mystery.

-video and story
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-amish-comm ... 5223.story

And the 'update' to the above
Ohio Sheriff: Accident led to Amish girl's death

A man cleaning his muzzle-loading rifle accidentally shot and killed the girl, who was driving a buggy more than a mile away
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45738811/ns/us_news-life

..............................

Girl, 11, killed in Amish wagon crash; man arrested

CONGRESS TOWNSHIP, Ohio- An 11-year-old girl was killed, and her family was injured, when a suspected drunk driver slammed into the back of an Amish farm wagon Friday night

-see mug shot of 'alleged' drunk driver-
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-girl-kille ... 5006.story
What point are you trying to make by highlighting these mundane stories?
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Tomas
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Re: Altruism

Post by Tomas »

uncledote wrote:
Bob Michael wrote:
uncledote wrote:The Zeitgeist movement has the architect Jaques Fresco espousing all sorts of Utopian / altruistic ideas and he is well beyond High School leaving age, no?
Poor guy never had the courage to take off his rose-colored glasses.
So, are we doomed to be isolated, Nihilistic, keyboard warriors?
There you go again with that "we".
Don't run to your death
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uncledote
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Re: Altruism

Post by uncledote »

Tomas wrote:
uncledote wrote:
Bob Michael wrote:
uncledote wrote:The Zeitgeist movement has the architect Jaques Fresco espousing all sorts of Utopian / altruistic ideas and he is well beyond High School leaving age, no?
Poor guy never had the courage to take off his rose-colored glasses.
So, are we doomed to be isolated, Nihilistic, keyboard warriors?
There you go again with that "we".
Nobody likes a smartarse, Tommy.
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mental vagrant
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Re: Altruism

Post by mental vagrant »

Alice's concept of scalar altruism is logical. Empirically we assume few if any such freaks exist based upon evolutionary theory etc, we must give some meaning to an otherwise redundant word. Types of self interest would have to be measured, including the taxonomical structures of self interest and their relations to social sciences (whatever goes..). Perhaps the ultimate form of altruism would be considered a haneous experiment, a defective person, a rock? or mabey the dead.

A dildo for Alice! You get +1 for topical interjection.
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GGman
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Re: Altruism

Post by GGman »

It's not that altruism is bad, it's that it would require authoritarian tactics to control who breeds. You need to out-breed the people who do not possess superior altruistic genetics. The quality of the world is dependent directly on the genetic stock of it's people whether people find it distasteful or not, it is fundamentally true. Next it requires knowing that moral principles are tools not rigid dogmas whose power can only be manifested in the hands of the gifted not in the hands of fools. Most moral people aren't intelligent enough to see past their ideologies and principles, a dead give-away of the unintelligent person is slavishness to ideology or favored principles, it's not that principles are bad it's that they must be tempered by what is true. You cannot impose higher morality/altruism on people who are incapable of existing at higher levels of existence.

Similar to why old computers cannot do calculations as fast as newer faster computers you simply cannot force old computers to be as fast as new ones. We are going to use technology soon enough to intervene in human evolution but I doubt those in power will want to create ethically superior beings. Human beings have a love of war and barbary. Passive people who mouth platitudes or principles but will not kill inferior kinds of people are not really moral beings. Altruism and inferior types of human beings cannot co-exist. It's like comparing gods to mere animals.
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uncledote
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Re: Altruism

Post by uncledote »

GGman wrote:It's not that altruism is bad, it's that it would require authoritarian tactics to control who breeds. You need to out-breed the people who do not possess superior altruistic genetics. The quality of the world is dependent directly on the genetic stock of it's people whether people find it distasteful or not, it is fundamentally true. Next it requires knowing that moral principles are tools not rigid dogmas whose power can only be manifested in the hands of the gifted not in the hands of fools. Most moral people aren't intelligent enough to see past their ideologies and principles, a dead give-away of the unintelligent person is slavishness to ideology or favored principles, it's not that principles are bad it's that they must be tempered by what is true. You cannot impose higher morality/altruism on people who are incapable of existing at higher levels of existence.

Similar to why old computers cannot do calculations as fast as newer faster computers you simply cannot force old computers to be as fast as new ones. We are going to use technology soon enough to intervene in human evolution but I doubt those in power will want to create ethically superior beings. Human beings have a love of war and barbary. Passive people who mouth platitudes or principles but will not kill inferior kinds of people are not really moral beings. Altruism and inferior types of human beings cannot co-exist. It's like comparing gods to mere animals.
The best response yet.
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mental vagrant
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Re: Altruism

Post by mental vagrant »

uncledote wrote:
GGman wrote:It's not that altruism is bad, it's that it would require authoritarian tactics to control who breeds. You need to out-breed the people who do not possess superior altruistic genetics. The quality of the world is dependent directly on the genetic stock of it's people whether people find it distasteful or not, it is fundamentally true. Next it requires knowing that moral principles are tools not rigid dogmas whose power can only be manifested in the hands of the gifted not in the hands of fools. Most moral people aren't intelligent enough to see past their ideologies and principles, a dead give-away of the unintelligent person is slavishness to ideology or favored principles, it's not that principles are bad it's that they must be tempered by what is true. You cannot impose higher morality/altruism on people who are incapable of existing at higher levels of existence.

Similar to why old computers cannot do calculations as fast as newer faster computers you simply cannot force old computers to be as fast as new ones. We are going to use technology soon enough to intervene in human evolution but I doubt those in power will want to create ethically superior beings. Human beings have a love of war and barbary. Passive people who mouth platitudes or principles but will not kill inferior kinds of people are not really moral beings. Altruism and inferior types of human beings cannot co-exist. It's like comparing gods to mere animals.
The best response yet.
We'll be riding a missile round to death.

We'll be riding a missile to death!!!!

hahahaha
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mental vagrant
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Re: Altruism

Post by mental vagrant »

GGman wrote:It's not that altruism is bad, it's that it would require authoritarian tactics to control who breeds. You need to out-breed the people who do not possess superior altruistic genetics. The quality of the world is dependent directly on the genetic stock of it's people whether people find it distasteful or not, it is fundamentally true. Next it requires knowing that moral principles are tools not rigid dogmas whose power can only be manifested in the hands of the gifted not in the hands of fools. Most moral people aren't intelligent enough to see past their ideologies and principles, a dead give-away of the unintelligent person is slavishness to ideology or favored principles, it's not that principles are bad it's that they must be tempered by what is true. You cannot impose higher morality/altruism on people who are incapable of existing at higher levels of existence.

Similar to why old computers cannot do calculations as fast as newer faster computers you simply cannot force old computers to be as fast as new ones. We are going to use technology soon enough to intervene in human evolution but I doubt those in power will want to create ethically superior beings. Human beings have a love of war and barbary. Passive people who mouth platitudes or principles but will not kill inferior kinds of people are not really moral beings. Altruism and inferior types of human beings cannot co-exist. It's like comparing gods to mere animals.
The authorotarian father returns, what if he doesn't know the way?
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John Paul
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Re: Altruism

Post by John Paul »

Regarding the topic question we are simply being efficient in applying meaning and labels to our thoughts and feelings.Some seek to bring new meaning to their lives through social interaction,were just not as obsessive.If you feel shame about that you're processing your emotions wrong. Just a simple mistake.




P.S

Found this topic in search results;didn't realize how old it was.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Altruism

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Welcome John. No worries about the old topic. At least you're not complaining yet about the lack of replies! Feel free to add more of your thoughts to the forum. For example some more about how to process emotions "right" or "wrong". How does the mistake happen? Attachment to labels? Habits?
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John Paul
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Re: Altruism

Post by John Paul »

Thank you for the advice and comment friend.I honestly believe if we were to tally up the pleasant social experiences we have,we would win in comparison to those who wish to go out unto the world more often.We all wonder in the most pain free way we can.There can be no shame in that.
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amerika
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Re: Altruism

Post by amerika »

The problem with altruism, in my view, is that it is self-interest that disguises itself. I do not trust the disguised.

I see a future for the human species, just not most of it. Ashes to ashes and all that.
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