"Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Ryan Rudolph
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"Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

An interesting idea for a website would be to undermine Facebook by creating a social networking site that is elitist in nature, and only accepts intellectual wall posts and material.

I envisioned a collective feed of all members that you can scan through to find potential people to debate if you feel they have 'spiritual potential'

The site could also be used to post philosophical videos, writings, and so on.

The site may also great as a profile recording mechanism of particular philosophical teachers present and even dead mystics.

For instance: Suppose Quinn wanted to migrate a lot of his material to a site like that, The site could host some of David's best debates, wisdom of the infinite, etc...

You could basically take the best structural elements of Myspace and Facebook, and use it to create the ultimate home page/debate arena for philosophers. It could also be used to post and reaffirm the core values of wisdom.
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

As I was saying to you, I have been thinking of this for a while, and would work on it with you. However, keep in mind too, that Facebook is already easily customizable to do this sort of thing. I've found some very interesting people from all corners of the world that I've friended and it makes for a much more interesting news feed.

Facebook is as good as how you use it. I enjoy my newsfeed because I friend smart people and block the people I don't find worthwhile.

However, a site that is intentionally geared for spiritual ascension might likely be worth pursuing, because the message to the world could be more distinct and clear.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

wow, that is horrible that I do not remember you mentioning that. my short term memory is crap. I thought it was an original idea that i came up with when I read some of your posts and realized you didn't have much of a worthy audience.

Yeah, the current facebook can be of some use, but specialized sites that are tailored to particular interests is inevitable anyway.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

And thinking back, I believe this has happened numerous times before in our epic philosophical quest...lol...

I have always had difficulty remembering the origin of ideas...whether it was an original thought, read, or spoken by another.
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

It's always made it very hard to trust you, that's for sure. :p

As I was implying in the 10 commandment threads.... intellect-book is, in my view, not a good name. Humanity is plenty clever. Most people have the intelligence required to realize wisdom, so don't talk as if people are too dumb to understand you.

What humanity lacks is pain tolerance, a rebelliousness against the reality of submission, and the ability to love reality.

Society frowns against the suffering required to grow, and it's the conventional moral code to suppress your feelings and put on a smile.

The spiritual path, then, is much about the capacity to feel good about the things that make humans sad ... to accept reality into ones heart. A weightlifter is very analogous. You deliberately and intelligently harm yourself, and then heal back - all for the sake of bearing the weight of truth. In that sense, the spiritual path is very much about capacity for love, the size of ones heart. You have to learn to accept truth into you, but the intellect is not enough. It's a process of destruction and recreation involving the heart and mind in unity. It's a commitment and discipline that is ones life project.

An interesting idea for a website would be to undermine Facebook by creating a social networking site that is elitist in nature, and only accepts intellectual wall posts and material.
One thing I am pretty sure about is that moderation is unnecessary. Like I said, I already use facebook for intellectual purposes, and high quality personalities are in my news feed. Those who consistently fail to impress, get blocked. Each user is his own moderator.

Unfortunately for the ideologically power hungry, ingenious site design takes away the need for centralized control. Each individual can will what he wants. It turns out, anarchy works well on the internet.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Cory,
Most people have the intelligence required to realize wisdom, so don't talk as if people are too dumb to understand you. What humanity lacks is pain tolerance, a rebelliousness against the reality of submission, and the ability to love reality.
What I mean is that they do not have the emotional intelligence, or an expanded intellect with a wide vocabulary, which is related to pain tolerance and intellectual curiosity. Also, I think intelligence frightens people who are horrible with language and have an incurable weak character rooted in an imbalanced ego, it makes them feel inadequate and lacking. It would be like a bus driver having a conversation with a quantum physicist about the nature of quarks. You may not realize it, but your use of language is far more complex and developed for what most people are used to, and can understand. Being an expert in anything alienates you from non-experts.

Moreover, from I first met you, before I exposed myself to much philosophy, I remember thinking, “what the fuck is this guy talking about?” And that was in the early days, and it was only my own innate intellectual curiosity and my own pain tolerance that kept me keeping up with you. If you read the teachings of Jesus, most of his disciples didn’t get what he was saying, and they followed him around for a good chunk of his adult life.
The spiritual path, then, is much about the capacity to feel good about the things that make humans sad ... to accept reality into ones heart. A weightlifter is very analogous. You deliberately and intelligently harm yourself, and then heal back - all for the sake of bearing the weight of truth.
Yes, maybe, but you could also be addicted to the negative emotion involved in constantly stirring things up with people who are incorrigible. I could be wrong, but you cannot cause someone to be a philosopher, they must have the some inclination from the outset, so to push it upon people who do not have the philosopher traits is like beating a dead duck with a stick, and then receiving the maggots that get sprayed up into your face.

Personally, I am selective who I start a philosophical conversation with, and I test their waters by seeing where we can find common ground, and then I gently poke tiny holes in their arguments and see if they notice. It could be my own weakness, but I have gone in with guns a blazing, and your mind becomes filled with the thoughts and emotions of others. It drains your own life force.

The internet is good in the sense that you don’t have to deal with the direct exchange of people’s emotions. Philosophical attack is definitely far less mentally draining through remote technology. Basically, there isn’t as much of the telepathy through the internet.
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Cory,
Most people have the intelligence required to realize wisdom, so don't talk as if people are too dumb to understand you. What humanity lacks is pain tolerance, a rebelliousness against the reality of submission, and the ability to love reality.
What I mean is that they do not have the emotional intelligence, or an expanded intellect with a wide vocabulary, which is related to pain tolerance and intellectual curiosity.
To do what? It's not like I would ever expect any particular person to go all the way in anything, I don't have big expectations and hopes for people. My contention is: everyone can "take on board" some truths, and you can save people a lot of trouble by deflating their egos, stopping them from going on their arrogant tangents and plans. They might not totally "get it", but they will have a lot more doubt about their previous ambitions. A lot of the most simple truths aren't that hard to understand. Furthermore, life is an art. Rather than resorting to painting on a canvas, recording music or writing a poem, you can create social situations that draw all types of personalities together, creating interesting contrasts, conflicts and lessons for outsiders to absorb. If someone is involved who is too dense to get anything, that person will actually teach a great deal, albeit unintentionally and involuntarily.
Also, I think intelligence frightens people who are horrible with language and have an incurable weak character rooted in an imbalanced ego, it makes them feel inadequate and lacking.
haha, I don't care? They have friends and family to support them, and at bottom, their suffering will drive them towards new activity and growth. Humans are resilient creatures, and I think this "protector" attitude you are showing indicates unrealistic self importance and self centeredness. Your powerful intelligent words, in the big picture, aren't that big of a deal. In fact, humans and all their touchy feelings aren't that important. People bounce back, life goes on.
It would be like a bus driver having a conversation with a quantum physicist about the nature of quarks. You may not realize it, but your use of language is far more complex and developed for what most people are used to, and can understand. Being an expert in anything alienates you from non-experts.
Ryan, I am a fisher of men. There are people in my life I've been working on for years who are still on my side. You're not the only one that has listened. The issues I focus on are universal issues, often very simple points, related to overcoming the human condition. Your analogy about the physicists and bus driver is way off. Really it is. A spiritual philosopher tackles the issues in everyones heart and deals with some key subjects that almost everyone already has an opinion about.
Moreover, from I first met you, before I exposed myself to much philosophy, I remember thinking, “what the fuck is this guy talking about?”
To be fair, I was young, confused, shooting from the hip, and, if I recall, I was talking a lot of shit, using no shortage of pretentious words. :p I don't use very big words anymore, and I tend to focus on straightforward issues in public or with newbies.
If you read the teachings of Jesus, most of his disciples didn’t get what he was saying, and they followed him around for a good chunk of his adult life.
1) As I was saying, I don't expect people to be completely and utterly self realized with other worldly confidence. I expect them to understand a few simple points, and be left with less worldly motivation and be more humble.

2) As I was saying in the 10 commandments thread, I speak truths to most people as a spiritual discipline. This is a really important concept, as it's the complete opposite of seeking comfort through submission to other physical bodies and the herd. You make people uncomfortable and hate you, to really explore the depths of psychological submission and free yourself from it. You do it to gain strength. But you also put effort into understanding the unique situation of the person you are talking to, and bring him to a truth that is relevant to his current goals. Often you undermine and crush his goals, but then you're doing yourself a favor. It's a victory over evil.

3) You don't have access to Jesus' disciples. The Gospels mention the confused ones because they make for good parables. 99% of Jesus life is unknown, we don't know who his best friends, peers and teachers were.
The spiritual path, then, is much about the capacity to feel good about the things that make humans sad ... to accept reality into ones heart. A weightlifter is very analogous. You deliberately and intelligently harm yourself, and then heal back - all for the sake of bearing the weight of truth.
Yes, maybe, but you could also be addicted to the negative emotion involved in constantly stirring things up with people who are incorrigible.
What if you reach a point where there are no more negative emotions? And that the more you do it, the less you care? And that you feel joy and have fun? That's pretty much where I'm at, the result of hard work, but the motivation to do that work came out of luck/grace.
I could be wrong, but you cannot cause someone to be a philosopher,
Your framework is more simplistic than mine. I don't think like that. I cause myself to be a greater philosopher through making myself known and transparent. But I don't recommend doing that without a certain level of purity and lack of attachments, otherwise the hypocrisy registers too high on the spiritual corruption meter.
they must have the some inclination from the outset, so to push it upon people who do not have the philosopher traits is like beating a dead duck with a stick, and then receiving the maggots that get sprayed up into your face.
Not a good analogy. Again, you simplify reality and other people, likely to preserve your vanity. You make reality ugly perhaps because you are ugly.
Personally, I am selective who I start a philosophical conversation with, and I test their waters by seeing where we can find common ground, and then I gently poke tiny holes in their arguments and see if they notice. It could be my own weakness, but I have gone in with guns a blazing, and your mind becomes filled with the thoughts and emotions of others. It drains your own life force.

The internet is good in the sense that you don’t have to deal with the direct exchange of people’s emotions. Philosophical attack is definitely far less mentally draining through remote technology. Basically, there isn’t as much of the telepathy through the internet.
Well, I don't do the guns blazing thing. I aim for and hit very narrow targets and study the results like a scientist, having a very open mind to all of the consequences, absorbing all the negative energy and converting it into positive. There are no mistakes in my reality. Every wrong, through a creative act of will, becomes right. The degree you go wrong is the degree you go right, if you love your wrongs and put the work in through that love.
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Ryan wrote: I read some of your posts and realized you didn't have much of a worthy audience.
^ Arrogance. You speak falsely and foolishly. You really don't know my life and who I have philosophical relationships with.

You also don't know 50% of my fb friends. I'm going to school with people in their early twenties and younger, who I've made an impact on, and I've also friended some very interesting people from other parts of the world, who have some very fascinating user profiles and fill my news feed with valuable things. Much more valuable than what you contribute on there. :p But yes, I understand, your sympathy and attachments prevents you from expressing yourself as you are. I encourage you to make some better friends and share what you find is most valuable in the newsfeed.

I don't feel discontented with my FB experience at all, because I understand it's value. Transparency, being naked before humanity, is one of the hardest things, and it's a gradual freeing oneself of submission.

I'm being hard on you, Ryan, because I'm not allowing you to openly criticize Nietzsche or criticize the wisdom of being truthful with people, as if you are smart for it. You're not. You will not get away with presenting a vice as a virtue. You will know when to keep your mouth shut.

Just like me, you have a weakness, one that I would not pick on you for if you didn't try to pass it off as strength.

Us ubermensch, we don't feel entitled to distinctions we don't deserve. Acting superior about spiritual leadership is something you earn through your sacrificial actions. The mere words produced by the intellect do not cut it.
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

[All the pretentious words can be left to me btw. And Cory, you no longer shoot from the hip? From where then?].

A little related to what you are talking about, from today's NY Times:
  • News Analysis
    Got Twitter? You’ve Been Scored
    By STEPHANIE ROSENBLOOM
    Published: June 25, 2011

    If you have a Facebook, Twitter or LinkedIn account, you are already being judged — or will be soon. Companies with names like Klout, PeerIndex and Twitter Grader are in the process of scoring millions, eventually billions, of people on their level of influence — or in the lingo, rating “influencers.” Yet the companies are not simply looking at the number of followers or friends you’ve amassed. Rather, they are beginning to measure influence in more nuanced ways, and posting their judgments — in the form of a score — online.

    To some, it’s an inspiring tool — one that’s encouraging the democratization of influence. No longer must you be a celebrity, a politician or a media personality to be considered influential. Social scoring can also help build a personal brand. To critics, social scoring is a brave new technoworld, where your rating could help determine how well you are treated by everyone with whom you interact.

    “Now you are being assigned a number in a very public way, whether you want it or not,” said Mark W. Schaefer, an adjunct professor of marketing at Rutgers University and the executive director of Schaefer Marketing Solutions. “It’s going to be publicly accessible to the people you date, the people you work for. It’s fast becoming mainstream.”

    Influence scores typically range from 1 to 100. On Klout, the dominant player in this space, the average score is in the high teens. A score in the 40s suggests a strong, but niche, following. A 100, on the other hand, means you’re Justin Bieber. On PeerIndex, the median score is 19. A perfect 100, the company says, is “god-like.” (For the rest go to:) Got Twitter? What's your Influence Score?
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Ideally we could just talk with Mark Zuckerberg and seduce him into expanding / modifying facebook into something more complex and spiritually useful than it already is.

However, I'll continue to seriously think about a facebook style site design (for thinkers) to compliment Genius Forum.

See, Genius Forum is already great but it's also an island very cut off from less individualistic people. A more useful and soulful user profile system with access to a large swath of the world's personalities has some interesting implications, as I've experienced myself.

We want the light of consciousness to shine with less obstacles and hence, less shadows cast. We want people to take more responsibility for their thoughts and step up to the challenge of transparency.

We want the light of truth to pervade as much space as possible, to the point where people hide from the internet like vampires seeking comfort in darkness.
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by David Quinn »

I must admit that I'm completely ignorant of facebook. I've never bothered to check it out, as I found myspace to be rather underwhelming and assumed that facebook would be along similar lines.

So what would be the virtues of setting up a wisdom site on facebook? What could it deliver? My main problem with myspace was that it seemed geared wholly towards social-networking, chatting and advertising and didn't really provide any platforms for substantial communication to occur. How does facebook differ?

Or would we simply use it as an adverstising beacon for other sites, such as Genius Forum?

-
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Tomas »

David Quinn wrote:I must admit that I'm completely ignorant of facebook. I've never bothered to check it out, as I found myspace to be rather underwhelming and assumed that facebook would be along similar lines.

So what would be the virtues of setting up a wisdom site on facebook? What could it deliver? My main problem with myspace was that it seemed geared wholly towards social-networking, chatting and advertising and didn't really provide any platforms for substantial communication to occur. How does facebook differ?

Or would we simply use it as an adverstising beacon for other sites, such as Genius Forum?

-
It's a CIA front.

Facial recognition, user habits, your writing style etc.

Much like Bing, Yahoo bots here at genius record every jot and tittle of conversations.
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

The downside of a Message Forum in contrast to facebook:

Message Forums are islands very cut off from other peoples values, so one can gain comfort by belonging to closed off community.

If going out on the streets as a Diogenes made sense to you David, then facebook is no different. I have over 80 people I've known through my life, and a total of 150 friends, and I'm quite sure some of them are quite surprised and scared about what they are learning about me. Especially family and older friends from high school.

The downside of facebook in contrast to a message forum:

Post format for debate is not ideal. The theme is neutral, no concentrated values, but as an individual you can create your own world and link with those who share your values, and more amusingly, those who do not share your values and ideas.

Other virtues of it, in my view, are as follows (these virtues are rather applicable to forums in general, however, because of the neutrality and merging of people belonging to so many different value systems and ideas, it's more interesting)

Transparency - you are putting your name and photo there for all to see. Obviously name and photo are superficial if you hide your soul, so that's where the profile is interesting.

The profile is a template that gives you a place to state:

Your religious views
Political views
Favorite Quotations
People who inspire you
Favorite Books
Activities and Interests
Favorite Films
Favorite Music

---

Now, if you're being completely truthful, and if you're friends with people you grew up with, parents and members of your community, facebook can cause high levels of anxiety.

Amusingly, Kelly Jones came on my wall last night and posted the following comment (for all my friends and family to see):

"Having just read your and Ryan's comments on Genius Forum on creating an intelligent version of Facebook for thinking persons, I'd like to participate."

I admit, I did not expect Kelly to come on my wall and say this, and the thought of many people seeing it gave me anxiety. But I overcame it and am stronger. It's already amusing and I'm moving up.

I did the same thing to a fundamentalist Christian... I posted some Gospel of Thomas/Jesus quotes on his Wall. A week later, I made a post on my own wall criticizing patriotism. He then came onto that post and unleashed what had to be 15 posts criticizing me, accusing me of being a liar, and defending his fictional Jesus, and causing a debate with 3 other of my friends. Later that week, he posted on my wall in another thread that lead to a 103 post debate.

Basically, on facebook... because of the newsfeed - everyone sees what you do. If something personal breaks out between two people, everybody else can see it, and other people might jump in. If it's soulful subject matter, it sends ripples everywhere. I've already had a close friend take me out for coffee the other day, telling me that many people are talking about me. Some judging me as crazy, others judging me as inspiring.

Another interesting thing I've noticed is there is a strange lack of individuality on facebook, insofar as, everyone sees each others thoughts together. The lack of privacy has it's virtues, if you make sure you are indeed an individual and not a submissive.

It's not that I'm having a conversation with my Buddy Dwayne. Me and him converse, but others watch, impressions are left, ripples are made, sowing the seeds of conversations elsewhere. There's a certain potential for social complexity on there that I find rather unprecedented, and you can experience first hand the individual in conflict with the community.

Finally, I was surprised how many interesting personalities I've found from other parts of the world. Judging by their user profile and newsfeed output, their lives are based on some pretty high level concepts.

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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

You should really think of a better name, because I think you'll accidentally appeal to the NPU/MENSA crowd, and alienate people who genuinely seek wisdom. I think something that emphasizes the goal of wisdom, in no uncertain terms, would be ideal. I was thinking of something like "HumanPerfection" or "PureWisdom". But, then again, these kind of made me barf-y.

Then I thought, SeekFreedom.com. The domain's not taken, and it's literally the biggest reason why someone, of any IQ or spiritual path, would want to be wise. "Freedom" is an ideal in basically every religion and philosophy I can think of.

Otherwise, this is a good idea. I hadn't even thought of using Facebook as anything more than a way to see how my siblings are doing.
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:You should really think of a better name, because I think you'll accidentally appeal to the NPU/MENSA crowd, and alienate people who genuinely seek wisdom.
Very much agreed, intellect is the branches. Spiritual path is just as much about the roots as the branches. Weak roots, weak branches.
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Me and my friend Victor were talking about this same idea a couple months ago. Victor claims Brazil has a website that is what we are talking about, but it requires an invite or something. Regardless, no reason we can't do our own take on it.

For a name, I wanted to call the site - Grasslands: the root of power. Or just Grasslands.

It was inspired by Nietzsche's idea:

Nietzsche's three metamorphoses of the spirit (taken from Poison for the Heart)

How the spirit shall become a camel, and the camel a lion, and the lion at length a child.

The camel: Loads itself with great burdens and hurries into the desert. Mocks itself, injures its own pride, loves its enemies.

The lion: Captures freedom, struggles against the demon of values, devours the subtlest of prides.

The child: A self-propelling wheel. A sacred "Yes".

The camel overcomes gross delusions. The lion overcomes the subtle, difficult to remove delusions. The child is what we should all be.

-

"The Grasslands" is for those who've gone past the camel stage (or can easily ascend from it whenever a return to the desert is necessary) doing the Lion's work.
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

I've a hard time imagining Facebook, Twitter, Google +, and so on to have any application in wisdom studies and traditions. A while ago I've been reading The shallows By Nicholas Carr, and for a large part I agree with his observations and references. The whole medium is changing how the thinking mind works and although the interconnections at first broaden horizons, it also flattens on a deep neurological level the whole enterprise over time.

It might become a wise thing to increasingly unplug from the stream of updates and chatter, even when filtered for "quality". The mind might get hooked on these subtle forms of "small excitements", the glowing screen, the control of the keyboard and mouse, the fast pacing, sharing the space with so many... at what stage will it start activaly working against knowing?
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Re: "Intellectbook" Undermining facebook to promote wisdom

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Diebert,
It might become a wise thing to increasingly unplug from the stream of updates and chatter, even when filtered for "quality". The mind might get hooked on these subtle forms of "small excitements", the glowing screen, the control of the keyboard and mouse, the fast pacing, sharing the space with so many... at what stage will it start activaly working against knowing?
Its a valid concern Diebert, but I think facebook has much more potential than twitter due to its layout, and over time it could be used to connect like minded thinkers around the world, and make it easier for beginners on the spiritual path to find inspired content. At first, I resisted quite a bit, but this site could evolve to be an alternative source for wisdom. Cory made some valid points on the value of the site's structure above.

The benefit of Facebook is that it operates like a 'hive' mind, so you see quite a spectrum of different levels of consciousness, and the scale of the members is unprecedented. It is better than Youtube in the sense that it is more interactive, it is easier to upload content, and you can see the homepage of everyone, and where novelty is happening.
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