GENIUS FORUMS

We often hate ourselves, and love ourselves for the wrong reasons. Both self hatred and self Love can be good. But hating or Loving yourself for how you merely appear to others (vanity) will get you no where.

Vanity is pretending to ourselves that we are finite...so that we can judge others as finite.

Student: I think of vanity in the opposite light - that we think of ourselves too highly and complexly, and want to elevate our egos with a layer of nonsense.

Cory (aka: God): Vanity is saying... "I will go no further than this." And by "this" we usually mean our physical-sexual appearance and basic beliefs. People are prisoners to their sexuality and beliefs, but freedom always breaks down walls.

Student: Go no further than this?... I don't understand. As in, go no further to achieve the goal of mating?

Cory: No, any limit. For instance, if I have this image of myself as a elevated and complex person...then that's a mere image. I've set a limit, out of vanity. The truth is that I am unified with all people, all things.

Student: I see. But, I see in many (most?) cases that people consistently change that limit. Right?

Cory: People consistently hate themselves for the wrong reasons. They change the limit to please others, not free themselves. And hence, they substitute one vain limit with another.

Student: I fear you are folly to the same. I think you cannot define what does and does not free a person.

Cory: I free myself all the time, and share the things that give me freedom.

Student: What you consider freeing yourself could be caging yourself to someone else.

Cory: That's their problem, not mine.

Student: Very nice attitude! But if its their problem why share what freed you?

Cory: Because I want them to help me become more free.

Student,

I think you cannot define what does and does not free a person.

spoken like a true coward. Anyone who attempts to deny the possibility of defining something in an absolute sense is automatically suspect.

However, in defense of the student, he did also say that he believed vanity was inflating the ego, and trying to project oneself as something great, which can be a form of vanity.

Vanity can be inflating ones superficial image, but I like the point you make about not defining a limit for oneself. People tend to set limits based on their conventional goals, values and conditioning. A limit makes people feel safe in a infantile sort of way. It gives the illusion that they are close or near to some sort of imaginary hierarchy in their own mind. Men are obsessed with hierarchy, which maybe one of the motivations for creating a limit of what they are.

'How we appear to others' is a mind-frame that sometimes exists and one where we have a choice between Positive or Negative feelings. If it exists, we care. Assuming a person wants and can accept all good things, it's always a good idea to create love at this and every opportunity. Vanity can be seen as good emotion bought at anothers expense, and is not as fulfilling as mutual value escalation in my experience.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Student,

I think you cannot define what does and does not free a person.

spoken like a true coward. Anyone who attempts to deny the possibility of defining something in an absolute sense is automatically suspect.

However, in defense of the student, he did also say that he believed vanity was inflating the ego, and trying to project oneself as something great, which can be a form of vanity.

Inflating the ego, no matter how much, you simplify what you really are, you stubbornly remain finite. Inflate a finite thing all you want, but finite is finite. You can argue who is the bigger finite, but that's just like arguing who the bigger piece of shit is.

The fact is, you literally are other people and the environment around you. You are complex beyond your ability to think. That's why self images are so dangerous, they literally rob you of a connection to life.

Vanity can be inflating ones superficial image, but I like the point you make about not defining a limit for oneself. People tend to set limits based on their conventional goals, values and conditioning. A limit makes people feel safe in a infantile sort of way. It gives the illusion that they are close or near to some sort of imaginary hierarchy in their own mind. Men are obsessed with hierarchy, which maybe one of the motivations for creating a limit of what they are.

A part of it is capacity - we do break under too much weight. Saying that one is not big enough to handle the problem is entirely noble and respectable. But who has the lack of vanity required to say "I am not strong enough. I am no match for this task." ?

Not too many. Instead, when faced with a man who is challenging others to lift more weight, humans (in their vanity) will resort to mockery of him, ridicule, anger, hatred and ostracizing. God knows I've done it to you, Ryan. :p

skipair wrote:'How we appear to others' is a mind-frame that sometimes exists and one where we have a choice between Positive or Negative feelings. If it exists, we care. Assuming a person wants and can accept all good things, it's always a good idea to create love at this and every opportunity. Vanity can be seen as good emotion bought at anothers expense, and is not as fulfilling as mutual value escalation in my experience.

If I care about how I appear to another, I feel as if I'm missing something much more essential - which is how I appear in contrast to my own values. That should be all that matters. If I behave according to my values, those who value what I value will love me, those who don't value what I value, might hate me. If people hate me for exhibiting what I value, that's their problem. Why should I ever care?

What should be is not important compared to what *is*. It is the great masculine hope to bring and keep the tides completely under control. At the same time, we are pack animals and have emotional needs that involve other people. At best they can be managed and relegated to specified roles in order to streamline their influence.

skipair wrote:What should be is not important compared to what *is*. It is the great masculine hope to bring and keep the tides completely under control. At the same time, we are pack animals and have emotional needs that involve other people. At best they can be managed and relegated to specified roles in order to streamline their influence.

What is? This is a war, Skip - with winners and losers. The war isn't over yet, it remains to be seen. Don't soften the situation, when you know just as well as me the hardness brings passion. It's like a coach at half time telling his players to do their best and if they lose it's no big deal. Fuck off coach, seriously - don't be a buzz kill to your players who want nothing but the glory and the highest.

Professional high level coaches don't downplay what's at stake. We don't just focus on what is. We respect what is, and use it to our advantage to will ourselves into the highest. Humans degrade themselves because they have mistaken notions about what is, and in their attempts to elevate themselves, they merely proceed into folly.

Cory Duchesne wrote:Vanity is pretending to ourselves that we are finite...so that we can judge others as finite.

Well if by "we" you mean the self, or consciousness, then we are in fact finite. If we were infinite then there would be nothing that we could contrast ourselves from, either unconscious or conscious. I would say that vanity is the delusion that we are something other than ourselves.

jupiviv wrote:

Cory Duchesne wrote:Vanity is pretending to ourselves that we are finite...so that we can judge others as finite.

Well if by "we" you mean the self, or consciousness, then we are in fact finite. If we were infinite then there would be nothing that we could contrast ourselves from, either unconscious or conscious. I would say that vanity is the delusion that we are something other than ourselves.

By we, I mean the infinite. We are all ultimately unified as the totality. Vanity is the denial of ones true infinite nature.

Cory Duchesne wrote:Vanity is the denial of ones true infinite nature.

Yes, it's the belief in an inherently existing self.

One just need to be who they are.