APOCALYPSE or FAIRY TALE?

[Alex Jacob]

"A sick society produces sick people and the sick people reproduce the characteristics of that society. Fromm envisages a sane society, socialism, which will produce sane and healthy people. A problem arises however when the question of how such a society is to be established. In view of the alleged fact that people living in capitalist society are universally sick and therefore incapable either of breaking out of their sick society or building socialism, the only solution of the dilemma is the cure of individual neurotics who will then set up little socialist oases in the capitalist desert. The key to the future of man, individually and collectively, lies therefore in the therapy of mental illness, the business of the psychoanalyst. Thus the psychoanalyst becomes the main reliance in the transition to socialism. Individual conversion of moral character has always been the mark of utopian socialism. Fromm reforms the utopian theory into a utopian therapy. Moral regeneration becomes the cure for neurosis."

To understand the above, I think one would have to understand the way the Jewish Prophets, the essentially 'social' message, is expressed through his psychologics.

Prophets. (Not to be confused with Profits!)

[Bob Michael]

To understand the above, I think one would have to understand the way the Jewish Prophets, the essentially 'social' message, is expressed through his psychologics.

But the task at hand is how we are going to rise above the universal human sickness and insanity and produce some genuinely sane and healthy human beings.

[Alex Jacob]

Bob writes: "But the task at hand is how we are going to rise above the universal human sickness and insanity and produce some genuinely sane and healthy human beings."

Things could be infinitely worse, my friend.

My answer? Hit 'em with a rhythm stick... If that don't work: The Bomb.

Another version.

[Bob Michael]

You seem to lack seriousness and a genuine connectedness to reality, Alex.

[Bob Michael]

Man, - Sheep or Wolf?

There are many who believe that men are sheep; there are others who believe that men are wolves. Both sides can muster good arguments for their positions. Those who propose that men are sheep have only to point to the fact that men are easily influenced to do what they are told, even if it is harmful to themselves; that they have followed their leaders into wars which brought them nothing but destruction; that they have believed any kind of nonsense if it was only presented with sufficient vigor and supported by power - from the harsh threats of priests and kings to the soft voices of the hidden and not so hiddened persuaders. It seems that the majority of men are suggestible, half-awake children, willing to surrender their will to anyone who speaks with a threatening or sweet enough voice to sway them. Indeed, he who has a conviction strong enough to withstand the opposition of the crowd is the exception rather than the rule, an exception often admired centuries later, mostly laughed at by his contemporaries. (Erich Fromm - 'War Within Man')

[Pam Seeback]

Men follow others because they have not yet taken responsibility to listen to their unborn spirit conscience, and because of this failure to be responsible to heed what is righteous and unborn in them, they fall under the spell of those who also have failed in this task.

It is man's clinging to the delusion that awareness begins at birth and ends at death that causes him to become a sheep or wolf to ideas perpetrated by others who also cling to this delusion. Thoughts of self survival, equated to be synonymous with awareness survival, of which "apocalypse" definitely qualifies, is the covering of fear/self righteousness that prevents the voice/touch of the perfect righteousness of omniety from being heard/felt/known.

There is nothing of Wisdom that will not be revealed to the man who asks not "how can I survive this circumstance or event," but rather, "what is the [core] truth of this circumstance or event?"

[Bob Michael]

Men follow others because they have not yet taken responsibility to listen to their unborn spirit conscience, and because of this failure to be responsible to heed what is righteous and unborn in them, they fall under the spell of those who also have failed in this task.

But what is it going to take for men to become self-responsible and overcome their enculturated or conditioned self-delusion?

[Bob Michael]

“The unleashed power of the atom has changed everything save our modes of thinking, and thus we drift toward unparalleled catastrophe.” (Albert Einstein)

[Pam Seeback]

Men follow others because they have not yet taken responsibility to listen to their unborn spirit conscience, and because of this failure to be responsible to heed what is righteous and unborn in them, they fall under the spell of those who also have failed in this task.

But what is going to take for men to become self-responsible and overcome their enculturated or conditioned self-delusion?

Before I can answer that question according to the intent of my original post, if indeed, you are seeking my answer, I need your definition of the "self" of which you speak.

Of my wisdom/definition of the self, the self is the 'interpretation container' of conditioned reality. In other words, 'self' arrives on this earth already conditioned via inherited DNA transference. A conditioning that is then extended into one's conditioning of this particular life span on earth, which is then absorbed into their DNA and passed on to be the inherited, conditioned DNA of their offspring. The turning wheel of kamma/karma of which Buddhism speaks. Which means that to become unconditioned so as to be touched of one's unborn Spirit conscience, one must go beyond thoughts of being a self [salt] of the earth of DNA intellectual interpretation, and into the silence of their invisibility of Spirit [nondual] Interpretation of I AM.

This 'being unconditioned' or 'being unborn' is the thought path of being unconditionally disciplined/obedient to transcending every human emotion, for it is of sentient emotional interpretation that the conditioned, deluded self of belief in matter [the appearance of the universe is the appearance of the delusion of objectification] comes into appearance.

Do you relate to my understanding of "self" and of what must "happen" to "self" so that one is in conscious union with their unborn Spirit conscience? If you do not, then our understanding of "taking responsibility" to Know Thyself is not of the same wisdom comprehension.

[Pam Seeback]

“The unleashed power of the atom has changed everything save our modes of thinking, and thus we drift toward unparalleled catastrophe.” (Albert Einstein)

By what law, principle and pattern of thinking is the thought "atom", and then, of "atom manipulation" and then, of "unparalleled catastrophe" set in motion? Until one comprehends the wisdom of this activity of Spirit, they cannot begin to transcend this activity of spirit so to end this activity of spirit, so as to say to themselves, as Jesus said to himself, "it is finished."

[Bob Michael]

Men follow others because they have not yet taken responsibility to listen to their unborn spirit conscience, and because of this failure to be responsible to heed what is righteous and unborn in them, they fall under the spell of those who also have failed in this task.

Do all men (and women) have a rebirthable 'spirit conscience'?

[Bob Michael]

Before I can answer that question according to the intent of my original post, if indeed, you are seeking my answer, I need your definition of the "self" of which you speak.

But what is it going to take for men to become self-responsible and overcome their enculturated or conditioned sheep and wolf natures?

[Bob Michael]

By what law, principle and pattern of thinking is the thought "atom", and then, of "atom manipulation" and then, of "unparalleled catastrophe" set in motion? Until one comprehends the wisdom of this activity of Spirit, they cannot begin to transcend this activity of spirit so to end this activity of spirit, so as to say to themselves, as Jesus said to himself, "it is finished."

I'm very much inclined to agree with Einstein that since man collectively continues to be incapable of changing his modes of thinking the human species is drifting towards an unparalleled catastrophe.

[nitinnsk]

Hope the catastrophe happens soon enough.Hopefully in 2012.This sick world is making me sick.

[Bob Michael]

Hope the catastrophe happens soon enough.Hopefully in 2012.This sick world is making me sick.

Indeed the sooner the better. The human species has deteriorated to the point whereby men everywhere are near-totally robot- or machine-like and completely unaware of this tragic fact. And maintaining one's health and sanity in these last days is the greatest of challenges.

[paco]

APOCALYPSE OR FAIRY TAIL/?

What gender?

What pride?

Same connotations of before...since the last time we discussed it. I>D Is the intuition of some other face trying to draw a line between dinstinctive truths. "Bare all things; believe all things...hope for all things." James 5:1

[Bob Michael]

"Bear all things; believe all things...hope for all things." James 5:1

Yes, and along comes a natural disaster, a war, etc., and the curtain suddenly closes for thousands of people. Many of whom 'beared all things, believed all things, and hoped for all things' and in spite of it all never truly lived, save for perhaps a few fleeting and fragmentary moments during their short visit here on the planet earth.

[Bob Michael]

"People who are more than machines do exist, but are quite rare. Machines they are born and machines they die." [G. I. Gurdjieff]

"Our universe is not merely bankrupt; there remains no dividend at all; it has not simply liquidated; it has gone clean out of existence, leaving not a wrack behind.....The writer sees the world as a jaded world devoid of recuperative power. In the past he has liked to think that man could pull out of his entanglements and start a new creative phase of human living. In the face of our universal inadequacy, that optimism has given place to a stoical cynicism.....Ordinary man is at the end of his tether. Only a small, highly adaptable minority of the species can possibly survive." [H. G. Wells]

[Pam Seeback]

By what law, principle and pattern of thinking is the thought "atom", and then, of "atom manipulation" and then, of "unparalleled catastrophe" set in motion? Until one comprehends the wisdom of this activity of Spirit, they cannot begin to transcend this activity of spirit so to end this activity of spirit, so as to say to themselves, as Jesus said to himself, "it is finished."

I'm very much inclined to agree with Einstein that since man collectively continues to be incapable of changing his modes of thinking the human species is drifting towards an unparalleled catastrophe.

The wisdom that is lacking in most individuals is that what he calls "an unparalleled catastrophe" such as the idea of the apocalypse of 2012, is that he is the One who is responsible for the appearance of this world of cause and effect of good and of evil, this belief that Life divides itself into subjects and objects, which means he is also the One who is responsible for Its dissolution or absorption unto the [nondual] Truth of Himself.

I am the Light or Spirit of my own Darkness is the wisdom of the Awakened One. This is what it means to be aware and awake of one's Infinity of Self or I AM Awareness, of the wisdom of the principle and pattern of infinity of "no thought returns void."

[Pam Seeback]

Hope the catastrophe happens soon enough.Hopefully in 2012.This sick world is making me sick.

Indeed the sooner the better. The human species has deteriorated to the point whereby men everywhere are near-totally robot- or machine-like and completely unaware of this tragic fact. And maintaining one's health and sanity in these last days is the greatest of challenges.

Going to the core or origin of every human thought, a man will discover the spirit of life of all of his dual thoughts of life and death, thoughts such as "being a robot" or "making me sick" or "of being healthy and being sane." Often it is when man comes to the very depth or pinnacle of his thoughts of death, of despair, of devastation and of destruction, that he is awakened to the truth that he is the life giver of every thought he thinks, which makes him the light of the darkness of himself. And now that he is aware that he is the light of the darkness of himself, does he now not know the way to be liberated of his thoughts of his darkness?

[Pam Seeback]

"People who are more than machines do exist, but are quite rare. Machines they are born and machines they die." [G. I. Gurdjieff]

"Our universe is not merely bankrupt; there remains no dividend at all; it has not simply liquidated; it has gone clean out of existence, leaving not a wrack behind.....The writer sees the world as a jaded world devoid of recuperative power. In the past he has liked to think that man could pull out of his entanglements and start a new creative phase of human living. In the face of our universal inadequacy, that optimism has given place to a stoical cynicism.....Ordinary man is at the end of his tether. Only a small, highly adaptable minority of the species can possibly survive." [H. G. Wells]

If the above quotes were true of the essence of Gurdjieff and Wells, these two men had not come to the awareness of being the light, the life of the [their] world. Had they awakened to this truth, they would not have continued to project the thought of death as if it is an absolute in the Mind of Spirit.

"Bear all things; believe all things...hope for all things" is a scripture that directs a man toward the way he can touch and be touched of his light, of his life that IS ALL THINGS.

[jupiviv]

Often it is when man comes to the very depth or pinnacle of his thoughts of death, of despair, of devastation and of destruction, that he is awakened to the truth that he is the life giver of every thought he thinks, which makes him the light of the darkness of himself.

The truth that he is the life giver of every thought he thinks is itself a thought. Who gives life to that?

[Pam Seeback]

Often it is when man comes to the very depth or pinnacle of his thoughts of death, of despair, of devastation and of destruction, that he is awakened to the truth that he is the life giver of every thought he thinks, which makes him the light of the darkness of himself.

The truth that he is the life giver of every thought he thinks is itself a thought. Who gives life to that?

IT is the Life giver of Itself. IT is the Infinity of I Am THAT. IT is the Eternity of I Am THAT. Which means that in truth, there is no giving of life, rather, there is [always only] an infinite, eternal continuum of Self Revelation. No beginning, no ending, no alpha, no omega...these are the things, the thoughts of the darkness when and while it is reaching for ITS light.

[Bob Michael]

Someday (relatively soon) a portion of the 'fallen' human species will come to know and experience peace, joy, love, true brotherhood, and above all, UNDERSTANDING.
_________________________________________

"I look out of myself into the world of men, and there I see a sight which fills me with unspeakable distress. The world simply seems to give the lie to that great truth [the existence of God], of which my being is so full; and the effect upon me is, in consequence, as a matter of necessity, as confusing as if I denied that I am in existence myself. If I looked into a mirror, and did not see my face, I should have the sort of feeling which actually comes upon me, when I look into this living busy world, and see no reflection of its Creator.....the greatness and littleness of man, his far-reaching aims, his short duration, the curtain hung over his futurity, the disappointments of life, the defeat of good, the success of evil, physical pain, mental anguish, the prevalence and intensity of sin, the pervading idolatries, the corruptions, the dreary hopeless irreligion.....What shall be said to this heart-piercing, reason-bewildering fact? I can only answer, that either there is no Creator, or this living society of men is in a true sense discarded from His presence." (Cardinal John Henry Newman 1864)

[jupiviv]

No beginning, no ending, no alpha, no omega...these are the things, the thoughts of the darkness when and while it is reaching for ITS light.

But beginning and ending do exist. They are very clearly visible, as opposed to being shrouded in darkness.