Sentencing the Human Race

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
cousinbasil
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Garment District

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by cousinbasil »

Yes, but I don't think much of it. Though I found the following far more practical or down-to-earth view of de Chardin to have been inspiring over the years. Though the "chain reaction" he speaks of is going to be rather limited in scope and will only set "ablaze" a relatively small portion of the species. The rest of it must and will perish.
Thanks for the quote, Bob.

To be honest, I have not read much of Teilhard, mostly things about him rather than by him.

Let me remark that when I hear someone say things like "the rest of it must and will perish," my first reaction is that the person saying it would be willing to be instrumental in realizing schemes of violence and/or mass destruction. This is, to me, truly horrifying. They sound like words from a person who won't rest until he sees it happen.

If it is not clinically insane to believe in God, it is certainly pathological to believe in a God of anger and retribution. You will forgive me, but the notion that Armageddon is imminent can only take root within a damaged soul, a soul belonging to a person who has given up and has forgotten how to be grateful for the gift of life, no matter how difficult life can be. A person who is grateful for life, you see, will not fly a plane into a building.

I offer no cures, just a request. I have read some of your posts to gain an insight into why you might believe as you do. I have a picture of someone no longer young whose life has seemed to him to have been more of a struggle than he perceives that others have. So here's the request - if you are ready to chuck it all at some point, please go quietly. Don't line up any Amish school children and gun them down before turning your weapon on yourself. Don't strap explosives to yourself, don't take a hunting rifle to a college bell tower, and don't take flying lessons. Don't jump off a building, either, because you might land on someone and take them out. No jihads.

In terms that might be more to in line with your beliefs: "Vengeance is Mine,"sayeth the Lord = It's not up to you to decide that the world is largely beyond redemption.
User avatar
Bob Michael
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:08 am
Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Bob Michael »

cousinbasil wrote:Let me remark that when I hear someone say things like "the rest of it must and will perish," my first reaction is that the person saying it would be willing to be instrumental in realizing schemes of violence and/or mass destruction. This is, to me, truly horrifying. They sound like words from a person who won't rest until he sees it happen.
I'm afraid you don't understand me at all, cb. Which doesn't surprise me in the least.

I will be building the 'Ark'. Remember? The place wherein those relatively few fully rehumanizable people will be who will eventually go on to propagate the finished and perfected human species. The necessary mass destruction of the huge amount of irreparable evolutionarily human maladapts will take place by and of itself and/or also by the hand of the Almighty.

In order to better understand me, if such a thing is at all possible, I suggest you examine the following:

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)

'The Origins of Man and the Universe' by Barry Long

http://www.barrylong.org/statements/terrorism.shtml
Jesu
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:13 pm

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Jesu »

"The only animal simultaneously ingenious enough to design the Empire State Building and stupid enough to jump off it." - Rock Hudson
jufa
Posts: 841
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:17 am
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by jufa »

David Quinn wrote:If you were to summarize the human race in a sentence, what would it be?

-
Ignorance to the truth it is not the density of thought matter its mind has made it believe it is.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
User avatar
Bob Michael
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:08 am
Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Bob Michael »

Jesu wrote:"The only animal simultaneously ingenious enough to design the Empire State Building and stupid enough to jump off it." - Rock Hudson
Why is jumping off a tall building necessarily 'stupid'?
paco
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:57 pm

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by paco »

I hate gabrields.
I am illiterate
paco
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:57 pm

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by paco »

Izzz. Put, into perception. I would put the and and to and fro into a pulse. In a sentence? Have a nice, day! Intensify the stupidy of life. I am gabriel's anthem. Heman. I would preferably place the a-n the into a fixed motion. Damn. LOL That the words may be perceived out of my stupidity. The earth is round damnit. Who? What?

Just, arguing with selfes. I would place the word a-and-the into the tri-marina. Gosh. Suicide. I would.
I am illiterate
Beingof1
Posts: 745
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:10 pm

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Beingof1 »

David Quinn wrote:
If you were to summarize the human race in a sentence, what would it be?
Needing the self help section in the brain.

I appreciate you very much David - always have.
User avatar
Kunga
Posts: 2333
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Kunga »

God(The Totality) Incognito
User avatar
Blair
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Blair »

Bob Michael wrote:
Jesu wrote:"The only animal simultaneously ingenious enough to design the Empire State Building and stupid enough to jump off it." - Rock Hudson
Why is jumping off a tall building necessarily 'stupid'?
Well for one, unless it's twelve stories or more, you'll likely survive and end up a paraplegic.
User avatar
Bob Michael
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:08 am
Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Bob Michael »

prince wrote:Well for one, unless it's twelve stories or more, you'll likely survive and end up a paraplegic.
One can then perhaps get a lift up to a high cliff and try taking the leap of faith again from his wheelchair, or do whatever he has to do until he finally gets it right.
cousinbasil
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Garment District

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by cousinbasil »

prince wrote:Well for one, unless it's twelve stories or more, you'll likely survive and end up a paraplegic.
You must be getting soft. I would expect prince to predict quadriplegia.
Carmel

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Carmel »

lol! That exact same thought crossed my mind...well, that and and a really bad joke that played upon Bob's phrase the "Fullness of Manhood"...
User avatar
Bob Michael
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:08 am
Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Bob Michael »

"Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of everyone of its members." (Emerson)

He should be here to see the scene in these last days.
Carmel

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Carmel »

Bob Michael wrote:"Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of everyone of its members." (Emerson)

He should be here to see the scene in these last days.


Carmel:

...but alas, We shall call these last days the "Limpness of Manhood"...

You wouldn't by any chance be a Jehovah's Witness would you, Bob?

I'm only asking because they ascribe to this same delusional obsession about "Armageddon" and the "last days", in fact, they inaccurately predicted Armageddon on many occasions in the past.

According to their predictions, Armageddon was supposed to occur in the following years:

1875
1914
1915
1918
1920
1925
1941
1975
...
then, they finally wised up and stop making precise predictions, as clearly they were making utter fools of themselves and creating a credibilty problem for themselves, but they alluded to Armageddon happening in the mid nineties, but alas, still no end of days...I don't know what they're saying now, but I wouldn't doubt that they're latching on to this whole 2012 foolishness.
User avatar
Blair
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Blair »

Even though humans have made millions of errors and screwed a lot of things up, they still deserve to survive because they for the most part do endeavor to get things right.
User avatar
Anders Schlander
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:11 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Anders Schlander »

In a very dark hole where upwards can be seen and heard a great many things, not realizing that one can crawl up, talks about how nothing of any importance ever happens.
User avatar
Bob Michael
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:08 am
Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Bob Michael »

Carmel wrote:...but alas, We shall call these last days the "Limpness of Manhood"...

You wouldn't by any chance be a Jehovah's Witness would you, Bob? I'm only asking because they ascribe to this same delusional obsession about "Armageddon" and the "last days", in fact, they inaccurately predicted Armageddon on many occasions in the past.
No JW here. They're by and large out of the running (meaning they're not truly and fully awake, aware, and alive), as is the same case with men and women 'everywhere' for that matter. And my 'obsession' is not with Armageddon, but with finding a relatively few, rare candidates whose parental and societal conditioning or enculturation has not permanently damaged their innate intuitive mechanisms or that vital sixth-sense and the capacity to love along with it. Without which there can be no true and full human being, no true and full human manhood (or womanhood). No true and full Genius either.
cousinbasil
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Garment District

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by cousinbasil »

Bob Michael wrote:No JW here. They're by and large out of the running (meaning they're not truly and fully awake, aware, and alive), as is the same case with men and women 'everywhere' for that matter. And my 'obsession' is not with Armageddon, but with finding a relatively few, rare candidates whose parental and societal conditioning or enculturation has not permanently damaged their innate intuitive mechanisms or that vital sixth-sense and the capacity to love along with it. Without which there can be no true and full human being, no true and full human manhood (or womanhood). No true and full Genius either.
You evidently see your own self as not "out of the running." This must mean you are truly and fully awake, aware and alive. You are a true full man who has not lost his capacity to love, nor his innate intuitive mechanisms, due to the societal and parental influences you have just mentioned. Unlike almost everybody else, according to you.

Which would put you in a position to judge the Jehovah's Witnesses as not worthy of the Lord's salvation. Or at least they don't make it onto your Ark, or whatever you intend to build. The JW's - whose avocation is to practice what they preach in their devotion by going door-to-door and talking about the Bible. Well, I suppose that makes sense. Who needs these simple minded souls around jabbering about Noah when you're the one with the Ark?

You said I don't understand you at all. I think I understand you just fine. Unlike you, though, I will reserve judgment. You mentioned The Origins of Man and the Universe by Barry Long and I looked for it at the local libraries but haven't found it. I will read it if I don't have to buy a copy. I could not find it anywhere online, so if you have a link to a PDF or DJVU version, please post it. Normally, when I buy a book it is because I have already read it and wish to give a copy to someone that I think would benefit from reading it.

I'm sure there will be books in your Ark, won't there? Who decides which books get on the Ark?

I just have so many questions about this Ark business, but I suppose my next step is to read this book, so please try to find a link for me.
cousinbasil
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Garment District

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by cousinbasil »

prince wrote:Even though humans have made millions of errors and screwed a lot of things up, they still deserve to survive because they for the most part do endeavor to get things right.
Is this some kind of breakthrough? Why would humans, in a world that cares nothing for them, endeavor to get things right? And how could it matter, if everything is merely indifferent cause and effect?
User avatar
Blair
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Blair »

Because when they do eventually get it all right, that will include understanding those factors.
cousinbasil
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Garment District

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by cousinbasil »

prince wrote:Because when they do eventually get it all right, that will include understanding those factors.
So it does matter that people do endeavor to get it right?
User avatar
Bob Michael
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:08 am
Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Bob Michael »

cousinbasil wrote:I just have so many questions about this Ark business, but I suppose my next step is to read this book, so please try to find a link for me.
There is no link to it that I'm aware of c/b. A fellow in Australia was kind enough to send me a copy of the book a couple of years ago. There are many inexpensive used copies of it available here online ('abebooks' for one).

However, below are some excerpts I copied out of Long's book a couple of weeks ago which I personally found enlightening and reassuring. Though as insightful into the human condition as Long was, I don't think he ever foresaw a practical way out of it. Nor did he seem to fully understand the nature and cause of man's present fallen condition.

I also posted the following link herein previously for an article of Long's called 'Terrorism' which is also an excerpt from this book. (The Origins of Man and the Universe)

http://www.barrylong.org/statements/terrorism.shtml
___________________________________________

The necessary effect of human intelligence is to downgrade an idea; ideas are reduced to concepts, notions, and words and they lose their original virtue. There is a feverish movement to fill in the idea in greater detail with concepts, theories, and descriptions. For any idea to retain its virtue, it must not be broken down and degraded in this way. It must be lived as my life. But the living of ideas such as truth, love, beauty, harmony, divine order and rightness is very, very rare.

Although the human intellect is practically all negative in relation to truth, it has its positive values such as kindness, generosity, compassion, patience, and giving. As worthy as these qualities are in our sensory existence, they are nevertheless degradations of the idea of love held in the terrestial intellect. Real love, living love, is all that is good. There are no other words for it; it embraces and replaces every seemimgly virtuous description.

The spiritual or holy life begins when man starts refusing to give in to the almost irresistible urge to identify with the human intellect.

Moral failure has been the cause of every civilization's downfall.

Service to humanity without personal consideration is love. And love is the finest virtue.

Each day every one of us subconsciously retouches the picture of his or her life to make the grotesque travesty of living-to-die make some sense and seem reasonable. We learn to live with a finger in the flame of doubt by refusing to acknowledge the pain to ourselves and each other, or to look for the cause of it. We are benevolent liars to our children, hearty cowards to ourselves. Apart from a few self-realized individuals, only the insane see the unbearable truth. Ours is a jungle in which everyone is kept as busy and unquestioning as humanly possible, not for common welfare but for common safety. Only in the real jungle there are no policemen, no doubts, - and no insanity. The unbearable truth, which few are allowed to realize without going mad, is that every man is fighting or trying to live through his nature in order to make a better or more meaningful life for man to come. This is the dynamic of human evolution. Each life is lived solely for another life. As the point is always another life there is never really this life - therefore no apparent point, no permanence, no peace for long, and no death. While man lives, he must fight and strive to build the individual he will be tomorrow. As there is no tomorrow, and yet only tomorrow, there is no end. Man can never rest content, even when he is dead. This is the epitome of futility, insanity. Which is why for man who is mortal, the truth of life must always remain myth.

When two or more selfconscious beings are in each other's company a powerful psychic atmosphere is generated between them.

The power to reflect on beauty came with man.....It is every man's unrealized longing to match the beauty he senses with the love he feels. In the span of his lifetime this is as difficult to do as to understand because each man has to create that love out of his own emotion.

Just as cosmic law controls the devastation man can wreak upon the earth at any time, so cosmic restraint has so far prevented him from unleashing the nuclear force now at his disposal. The balance is so fine that nuclear devastation is a possibility at any moment even though it subsides periodically as a perceived threat. The only certainy - guaranteed by man's current state of self-knowledge - is that he will survive in sufficient numbers to perpetuate the race. This is hardly a comforting thought for the billions who will be destroyed; nor for them to know that the holocaust will have been absolutely necessary for the inevitable progress of westernized culture towards the enlightened race man must someday become.

The unbearable truth, which few are allowed to realize without going mad, is that every man is fighting or trying to live through his nature in order to make a better or more meaningful life for man to come. This is the dynamic of human evolution.

Man, in spite of his nucleal might and biological villainy, still does not possess the power to wipe out the human race. But he can destroy most of it. And, as I have said, this will be necessary for his evolutionary advancement.

As future man and woman make the psychic or vital world a conscious part of their existence by being made to learn to truly love, their energies will merge and harmonize without loss of individual consciousness. Man on earth will then be united with the one divine woman all men seek, and woman with her divine man. Together they will create a new psycho-physical race of people on earth. From birth their living experience will be of the psychic reality as well as the physical world giving them an intensified sense of purpose and responsibility for life in both worlds. This future wave of men and women will be a new, mature version of the Gods.

Sooner or later every good man who has learned to love and perhaps to serve something worthy in the world reaches a crisis point. He has to start facing up to the only thing that now stands between himself and true selfless love. This is himself, the final residual red-claw emotional entity which he overlooked and unconsciously assumed was loving or doing the loving. The self itself - representing all that lives within him apart from love - must now be consciously dissolved. This is done by using his authentic being to observe and understand his emotional self. It means turning his attention inward instead of allowing it to be driven outward. For a long, long time the man must live out of character instead of out of his nature. This is extremely difficult to do as it entails going against much that is psychologically and emotionally normal in himself and society. To all other men living normal lives his behavior and actions at this time will seem to be unnatural and therefore questionable. Furthermore, while the struggle is in progress the man's ability to love may seem to the world to be doubtful or self-centered. By persevering a man gradually aligns his nature with his character. When the alignment is distinct enough the character shines through, giving a new dimension to the natural being. A man can then be said to have had power or presence added to the force of his nature - and this is equilibrium or willpower.

Character is not commonly seen in this world. Even when it is seem it has no discernable continuity like the nature of a person or his personality. If personality is to be termed positive, character has to be described as negative. Character is not so much seen for what it is as for what it is not. That is to say, character usually appears or stands out in situations where the normal instinct of self-preservation or common sense is to go in the opposite direction. Character tends to always be isolated, to have to stand alone or out front. Also it tends to prove of very little value from a worldly point of view apart from the virtue of its own existence for anyone perceiving it in another.

To observe character in another usually evokes compassion, spiritual love, or the sense of gratitude. Gratitude is the finest of emotions, but often it deteriorates into a form of self-service with the giving of alms in return. We give gifts to asssuage (abate - calm) our selfconscious feeling of not being able to give of our self. To be worthy or evolutionarily effective, gratitude demands first an immediate offering up of the feeling itself to the 'unknown' within, the one and only character at Level Five above (below). It is then divine gratitude. By expressing gratitude first to the source of character and not to another human being, selfconsciousness is helped to be cleansed of self. Any giving of gifts can come later as a compliment to the offering up of gratitude.

Character and nature are a world apart. Character is always present and implicit in being, as beauty is implicit in life. It does not incarnate. What incarnates are the vital, self-projecting evolutionary needs of man's nature. This may seem a deplorable constraint for the world. But the justice of it is undeniable: it is up to each individual to express character and virtue in the world by manifesting them himself if he thinks those qualities should be here. Otherwise he - and the world - is stuck by default with his Red Plane (level 1) self and existence.

Seven Levels of the Terrestrial Mind

Level 7 - Spirit of the earth and of Man
Level 6 - Will (static) Will (dynamic)
Level 5 - True soul of man
Level 4 - Evolving soul of man
Level 3 - The unconscious - dreamless sleep
Level 2 - The subconscious - thinking and dreaming
Level 1 - Sense perception and the physical world

You can't perceive reality except through self-knowledge; and you have to have a very deep knowledge of the experience of life on earth as your own existence - which our self obscures. Self-knowledge is a light put down through the gloom. Reality is under the gloom so you got to put the light into the self first, as knowledge. 'Man know thyself'. To know myself is to be able to perceive reality and to have gnosis (knowledge of spiritual mysteries) or knowledge as I've defined it - knowledge of the vast memory, which is the memory of life itself. I don't suggest that I am the knowledge of all life, for that would be the place of God; but whatever I need to know to answer any question that I am asked, from this position in space and time, that knowledge is provided for me.

(Barry Long - 'The Origins of Man and the Universe')
Last edited by Bob Michael on Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:25 am, edited 11 times in total.
User avatar
Bob Michael
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:08 am
Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by Bob Michael »

cousinbasil wrote: The JW's - whose avocation is to practice what they preach in their devotion by going door-to-door and talking about the Bible.
Years ago I attended maybe two dozen JW meetings at three or 4 different Kingdom Halls. And while I like some of their ideas, that the end is near especially and their pictorial depictions of the new and coming world, I find them generally very much caught up in the ways of 'self' and the world and totally lacking in truly understanding their hero Jesus Christ. I too had some of them come to my door over the years with their Bibles. And while I admire their courage to do so, I find they just don't carry the right message. However, I do find there are some exceptionally fine and thereby 'kingdom capable' people within their ranks, perhaps a larger percentage than in any other organized religion; yet these potential free-spirits are stuck in and by the vast number of non-understanding or non-radically transformed people that overwhelmingly fill those ranks. Hence no one ever breaks through unless perhaps they split from the fellowship. Which is no guarantee that they'll break through either. Since the whole world everywhere is also in conspiracy against the full spiritual development of everyone of its members. Hence a new Adam, a new and this time perfected Jesus, or a perfect mirror of truth, love, and understanding will be necessary if any of the human species is to ever truly break free of the universal human darkness.
cousinbasil
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Garment District

Re: Sentencing the Human Race

Post by cousinbasil »

I have resisted attending any sort of JW Kingdom Hall function for two reasons. One, I think it would be either disrespectful or hypocritical since there is not a chance I will ever believe in the inerrancy of the Bible in any version. Second, I see no need for it because they won't stop coming to my house - why bother going to theirs?

One of my JW regular visitors is even convinced that Jehovah created the rainbow to remind mankind of the Great Flood. She truly believes it. I tried to explain the simple and beautiful principle behind diffraction, reminding her that one sees a rainbow when one walks under a waterfall or washes one's car with a garden hose on a sunny day. She believes no human before Noah ever saw sunlight broken down into its chromatic spectrum.

I take much of what Jesus had to say quite literally, simply because I believe he meant what he said. "Suffer the children to come unto me." In all good conscience I cannot refuse to speak to my childlike JW visitors for this very reason. Neither will I cater to their notions. I point out the irrationality where I can see it, which is challenging, because their beliefs are irrational on so many levels.

The fascinating thing to me is when they prepare a lesson for you before the visit, and cite Bible passages which, with astounding precision, undermine the entire lesson. Here's a perfect example. My favorite JW regular - the one with the rainbow - had a lesson for me based on Christ's quote that he came not to change the law but to fulfill it. Her "insight" was that when one fulfills a debt, the debt is then paid in full.

My problem with this is pretty obvious. If you have fulfilled the debt, you need not ever worry about it again. So if Jesus fulfilled the Law (the Jewish law, which would be works of the Pentateuch or Torah), we need not labor over the letter of that law for another second. Which directly contradicts the JW knee-jerk reaction to every question, whether it be historical, scientific, or moral: they flip to some passage or other of the Old Testament.

When I gently pointed out how she was entirely missing her own point, she looked at me like I was the knucklehead.

No I was not defending the JW viewpoint, as I understand it, but rather observing how you have already decided to leave these meekest of of the Shepherd's Lost Sheep off your mighty Ark.
Locked