The Evil of Charm

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Ryan Rudolph
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The Evil of Charm

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Google defines charm as an attractiveness that interests or pleases or stimulates another. That is a good way of begin to think about it.

Both genders who have the mental ability will often use charm in their daily lives to control other people for their own self interest. This can be especially observed with corporations, whose managers have mastered the dynamics of charm in order to make employees do things that they normally wouldn’t do. Alpha males and certain personality types of women are quite skilled in the act of charm.

Charm includes a compliment to your ego, story telling that makes the target look good, pointing out someones good qualities in front of others, bonding exercises, emphasizing team effort, buying you small food gifts, giving tickets for sports games and all the rest of it. The entire point of charm is that when an employee is strongly bonded emotionally to a manager, the manager can then get the employee to do whatever they want. They are bonded like the obedient girlfriend who accepts abuse from the controlling boyfriend because they believe they are in love based on all the initial acts of charm.

Charm causes the ego of the participator to strongly identify with the charmer, and a bizarre evil karmic connection emerges, one that the charmer can use to their advantage. Once the charmer has the victim connected, then they can start the cycle of negativity/positivity to control them. After a week of positive compliments, the charmer may get angry at the person for no reason, belittling them in front of others, and forcing them to do some sort of job that no one wants to do, in order to redeem themselves. This cycle makes the charmer feel powerful, important, and at the top of the totem pole, so a reward feedback emerges, and a neurological addiction develops.

The main point is that the initial period of charm is often used to seduce the victim, get them attached, so that they will not say no to any request, which is caused by a fear to displeases their boss, a fear that becomes stronger to the degree that he has charmed them. There is an direct relationship between the degree of charm and the degree of fear the victim has in saying no to the charmer. The more compliments and bonding games results in a tougher time for the victim to say no, and the charmer instinctively knows this, and uses the attachment as a means of control.

Alpha male CEOs, managers, false spiritual teachers, cult leaders, military leaders, and many other types are usually skilled at the evil art of charm, which is used to control large numbers of ignorant unknowing victims.

Skilled girlfriends can also use charm to control their boyfriends, but their control is usually more subtle. It involves the same tendencies, but deployed slightly differently. Women will still fluff up their man’s ego with compliments in order to make him attached and obedient, but her weapon during conflict is often times more subtle - it is silent treatment, invoking guilt, withholding sex, and tiny insults that dig away on the ego over time.

Any comments?
cousinbasil
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by cousinbasil »

Skilled girlfriends can also use charm to control their boyfriends, but their control is usually more subtle. It involves the same tendencies, but deployed slightly differently. Women will still fluff up their man’s ego with compliments in order to make him attached and obedient, but her weapon during conflict is often times more subtle - it is silent treatment, invoking guilt, withholding sex, and tiny insults that dig away on the ego over time.
Only that the tiny insults tend to get bigger as one becomes inured to the smaller ones, until one finds oneself looking forward to the silent treatment. Charm is superficial. If a relationship is not destined to survive, it is the first thing to get thrown overboard. It is only evil if you rely on it, because it then becomes manipulation as you have noted here. It can be a way of avoiding deeper communication and understanding. Sometimes the boss complimenting you on a job well done is positive reinforcement, which you should get if you are going to get the critiques when you fuck up. Nothing wrong with charm when it is a social lubricant, as long as it is not over applied or else misapplied. Excessive charm is usually a sign one is covering for something, often a chronic deficiency of some kind.
mensa-maniac

Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by mensa-maniac »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Google defines charm as an attractiveness that interests or pleases or stimulates another. That is a good way of begin to think about it.

Both genders who have the mental ability will often use charm in their daily lives to control other people for their own self interest. This can be especially observed with corporations, whose managers have mastered the dynamics of charm in order to make employees do things that they normally wouldn’t do. Alpha males and certain personality types of women are quite skilled in the act of charm.

Charm includes a compliment to your ego, story telling that makes the target look good, pointing out someones good qualities in front of others, bonding exercises, emphasizing team effort, buying you small food gifts, giving tickets for sports games and all the rest of it. The entire point of charm is that when an employee is strongly bonded emotionally to a manager, the manager can then get the employee to do whatever they want. They are bonded like the obedient girlfriend who accepts abuse from the controlling boyfriend because they believe they are in love based on all the initial acts of charm.

Charm causes the ego of the participator to strongly identify with the charmer, and a bizarre evil karmic connection emerges, one that the charmer can use to their advantage. Once the charmer has the victim connected, then they can start the cycle of negativity/positivity to control them. After a week of positive compliments, the charmer may get angry at the person for no reason, belittling them in front of others, and forcing them to do some sort of job that no one wants to do, in order to redeem themselves. This cycle makes the charmer feel powerful, important, and at the top of the totem pole, so a reward feedback emerges, and a neurological addiction develops.

The main point is that the initial period of charm is often used to seduce the victim, get them attached, so that they will not say no to any request, which is caused by a fear to displeases their boss, a fear that becomes stronger to the degree that he has charmed them. There is an direct relationship between the degree of charm and the degree of fear the victim has in saying no to the charmer. The more compliments and bonding games results in a tougher time for the victim to say no, and the charmer instinctively knows this, and uses the attachment as a means of control.

Alpha male CEOs, managers, false spiritual teachers, cult leaders, military leaders, and many other types are usually skilled at the evil art of charm, which is used to control large numbers of ignorant unknowing victims.

Skilled girlfriends can also use charm to control their boyfriends, but their control is usually more subtle. It involves the same tendencies, but deployed slightly differently. Women will still fluff up their man’s ego with compliments in order to make him attached and obedient, but her weapon during conflict is often times more subtle - it is silent treatment, invoking guilt, withholding sex, and tiny insults that dig away on the ego over time.

Any comments?
Mensa says: You did it Ryan, you figured me out to a T, you are BRILLIANT! There I go again charming people as I do so eloquently. I couldn't believe what I was reading, I thought I was being spied on or taped, I couldn't fathom how you knew this information, but you're spot on with your insight! This happens to me quite alot of the time where I just intuitively know the answers like you just did.
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jupiviv
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by jupiviv »

Yes, "charm" is essentially a dynamic of dominance and submission. People, and especially women, love to submit to someone who's just "charmed" them, even if they behave in the rudest manner to them and make them do things they don't want. So long as they've got their charm, it doesn't matter what their character is like.
cousinbasil
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by cousinbasil »

Seems a bit churlish to vilify charm. The intent behind it is the more important thing.
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Blair
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Blair »

Does charm ever have a benevolent intent..
cousinbasil
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by cousinbasil »

prince wrote:Does charm ever have a benevolent intent..
No, prince. No one who has ever exhibited any charm whatsoever has been anything other than a malevolent back-stabber.
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Blair
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Blair »

Charm is never a vehicle for truth.

Although it doesn't surprise me you are unable to grasp that.
mensa-maniac

Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by mensa-maniac »

mensa-maniac wrote:
Ryan Rudolph wrote:Google defines charm as an attractiveness that interests or pleases or stimulates another. That is a good way of begin to think about it.

Both genders who have the mental ability will often use charm in their daily lives to control other people for their own self interest. This can be especially observed with corporations, whose managers have mastered the dynamics of charm in order to make employees do things that they normally wouldn’t do. Alpha males and certain personality types of women are quite skilled in the act of charm.

Charm includes a compliment to your ego, story telling that makes the target look good, pointing out someones good qualities in front of others, bonding exercises, emphasizing team effort, buying you small food gifts, giving tickets for sports games and all the rest of it. The entire point of charm is that when an employee is strongly bonded emotionally to a manager, the manager can then get the employee to do whatever they want. They are bonded like the obedient girlfriend who accepts abuse from the controlling boyfriend because they believe they are in love based on all the initial acts of charm.

Charm causes the ego of the participator to strongly identify with the charmer, and a bizarre evil karmic connection emerges, one that the charmer can use to their advantage. Once the charmer has the victim connected, then they can start the cycle of negativity/positivity to control them. After a week of positive compliments, the charmer may get angry at the person for no reason, belittling them in front of others, and forcing them to do some sort of job that no one wants to do, in order to redeem themselves. This cycle makes the charmer feel powerful, important, and at the top of the totem pole, so a reward feedback emerges, and a neurological addiction develops.

The main point is that the initial period of charm is often used to seduce the victim, get them attached, so that they will not say no to any request, which is caused by a fear to displeases their boss, a fear that becomes stronger to the degree that he has charmed them. There is an direct relationship between the degree of charm and the degree of fear the victim has in saying no to the charmer. The more compliments and bonding games results in a tougher time for the victim to say no, and the charmer instinctively knows this, and uses the attachment as a means of control.

Alpha male CEOs, managers, false spiritual teachers, cult leaders, military leaders, and many other types are usually skilled at the evil art of charm, which is used to control large numbers of ignorant unknowing victims.

Skilled girlfriends can also use charm to control their boyfriends, but their control is usually more subtle. It involves the same tendencies, but deployed slightly differently. Women will still fluff up their man’s ego with compliments in order to make him attached and obedient, but her weapon during conflict is often times more subtle - it is silent treatment, invoking guilt, withholding sex, and tiny insults that dig away on the ego over time.

Any comments?
Mensa says: You did it Ryan, you figured me out to a T, you are BRILLIANT! There I go again charming people as I do so eloquently. I couldn't believe what I was reading, I thought I was being spied on or taped, I couldn't fathom how you knew this information, but you're spot on with your insight! This happens to me quite alot of the time where I just intuitively know the answers like you just did.
Mensa says: Ryan, I can get anybody to do whatever I want with my ability to charm or control them, but I do not involve myself in "bonding exercise" with them, forget that nonsense. I am in full control of my body and mind. I don't need to "put out" to get what I want out of people! But, I agree with the rest of your ideas here in your thread. I think it's a good post!
mensa-maniac

Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by mensa-maniac »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Google defines charm as an attractiveness that interests or pleases or stimulates another. That is a good way of begin to think about it.

Both genders who have the mental ability will often use charm in their daily lives to control other people for their own self interest. This can be especially observed with corporations, whose managers have mastered the dynamics of charm in order to make employees do things that they normally wouldn’t do. Alpha males and certain personality types of women are quite skilled in the act of charm.

Charm includes a compliment to your ego, story telling that makes the target look good, pointing out someones good qualities in front of others, bonding exercises, emphasizing team effort, buying you small food gifts, giving tickets for sports games and all the rest of it. The entire point of charm is that when an employee is strongly bonded emotionally to a manager, the manager can then get the employee to do whatever they want. They are bonded like the obedient girlfriend who accepts abuse from the controlling boyfriend because they believe they are in love based on all the initial acts of charm.

Charm causes the ego of the participator to strongly identify with the charmer, and a bizarre evil karmic connection emerges, one that the charmer can use to their advantage. Once the charmer has the victim connected, then they can start the cycle of negativity/positivity to control them. After a week of positive compliments, the charmer may get angry at the person for no reason, belittling them in front of others, and forcing them to do some sort of job that no one wants to do, in order to redeem themselves. This cycle makes the charmer feel powerful, important, and at the top of the totem pole, so a reward feedback emerges, and a neurological addiction develops.

The main point is that the initial period of charm is often used to seduce the victim, get them attached, so that they will not say no to any request, which is caused by a fear to displeases their boss, a fear that becomes stronger to the degree that he has charmed them. There is an direct relationship between the degree of charm and the degree of fear the victim has in saying no to the charmer. The more compliments and bonding games results in a tougher time for the victim to say no, and the charmer instinctively knows this, and uses the attachment as a means of control.

Alpha male CEOs, managers, false spiritual teachers, cult leaders, military leaders, and many other types are usually skilled at the evil art of charm, which is used to control large numbers of ignorant unknowing victims.

Skilled girlfriends can also use charm to control their boyfriends, but their control is usually more subtle. It involves the same tendencies, but deployed slightly differently. Women will still fluff up their man’s ego with compliments in order to make him attached and obedient, but her weapon during conflict is often times more subtle - it is silent treatment, invoking guilt, withholding sex, and tiny insults that dig away on the ego over time.

Any comments?
Mensa says: If one has the mental ability to charm or control as Ryan points out, than how can this be called Evil of Charm? If one uses their mental ability, then it is implied it is evil. Explain this Ryan! I think it should be called the Cleverness of Charm!

Mensa says: But, still Ryan I see much relation to myself in your post, you've certainly hit a nerve!
cousinbasil
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by cousinbasil »

prince wrote:Charm is never a vehicle for truth.

Although it doesn't surprise me you are unable to grasp that.
You didn't ask that. You asked if it was ever benevolent. Benevolence/malevolence and truth don't seem fundamentally correlated to me. Although it doesn't surprise me you are unable to grasp that.

You seem to be a one-trick pony, prince. Simple, basic niceties irritate you and you unfailingly want to equate them with avoidance of truth, which is to you necessarily always painful and/or uncomfortable. My guess is that you are rarely shown kindness and have come to believe you do not deserve it and have elevated that into some overarching philosophy of what Truth is. Unless it hurts, it can't be unvarnished Truth. Further, it is my guess that in your own case, you are most likely correct. You probably do not deserve much kindness from the world. You have become your own unappealing self-fulfilling prophecy.

But your own pock-marked self-image has little to do with truth in general. I think it is an empirical fact that the modern world lacks a modicum of charm, which doesn't have to be anything more than simple etiquette and respect, and doesn't intrinsically have anything to do with deceit and the desire to manipulate to one's own selfish advantage.

But it doesn't surprise me you disagree - first you'd have to be able to understand it.
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Blair
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Blair »

cousinbasil wrote:You seem to be a one-trick pony

Simple, basic niceties irritate you and you unfailingly want to equate them with avoidance of truth

My guess is that you are rarely shown kindness and have come to believe you do not deserve it

You probably do not deserve much kindness from the world. .

But your own pock-marked self-image has little to do with truth in general.
You are adept at projection, I'll give you that.
Beingof1
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Beingof1 »

These are the signs of verbal trigger manipulation:

Imagine yourself
See yourself
Feel yourself
Allow yourself
Permit yourself
etc.

All designed to invoke comfort, warmth, and trust.
cousinbasil
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by cousinbasil »

prince wrote:You are adept at projection, I'll give you that.
Obviously I hit a nerve. But then you are convinced I am trying to psychologically harm you in some way, when the reality is just the opposite. I am trying to help you get over yourself. That is all I have ever been trying to do in our exchanges. It is not a projection, prince. It is a mirror.

Stop thinking people are out to get you and have malevolent intents. That is giving people at large too much credit. They are usually not intelligent enough to be malevolent. I have been trying to focus prince's attention on the win/win aspects of life. I am trying to help you see that you are your own worst enemy.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

the subject of charm hits a nerve with most people, and for good reason. Prince actually makes quite a bit of sense with his short comments.

Charm is a survival adaptation, it is an abuse of the intellect that the individual uses to maximize their chances of survival. It is one of the leading drivers behind people who are able to climb the social ladder and succeed financially. It is superficial communication aimed at securing social networks and using people for ones own benefit.

From the alpha male who sucks up to his higher ups, while poking fun at employees at lower levels in order to appear entertaining, useful and an ally. A individual who wins the humor of a boss guarantees his promotions up the company ladder. He only jokes around with the boss in order to eventually take his place. There is no honesty, there is only manipulation at all levels in order to climb the capitalist model of success.

Women use charm to tighten their family bonds, as family bonds are important for women from a biological perspective. Family bonds protect children and Guarantee their survival, and because a huge chunk of our biological conditioning is related to the survival of offspring, our charm is enslaved to these drives.

Both genders are conditioned to use charm in this way, in order to succeed in their pre-determined biological aims in life. Each is using charm to secure the offspring's survival in different ways.

Whereas, an enlightened person may use charm to poke fun at something incredibly absurd. He uses it to form his own morality. An own ideal of what is enlightened behavior. However, an enlightened person uses charm very carefully because ignorant individuals can easily become seduced and enthralled by it, which results in idolatry.
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Blair
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Blair »

cousinbasil wrote:They are usually not intelligent enough to be malevolent.
It's not neccessary to have a malevonent intent to do something that has undesirable consequences.

Christians on street corners...for example. Father forgive them they know not what they do I believe the quote goeth.
cousinbasil
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by cousinbasil »

prince wrote:
cousinbasil wrote:They are usually not intelligent enough to be malevolent.
It's not neccessary to have a malevonent intent to do something that has undesirable consequences.

Christians on street corners...for example. Father forgive them they know not what they do I believe the quote goeth.
Are you talking about street-corner preachers? How is that an example of someone not malevolent producing undesirable consequences? And in what way do you find such people charming?
Facade
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Facade »

Let us be clear about what charm is as a function, that is, why it is desirable to be charming. Charm is the effective capacity of one's persuasiveness, his ability to align the behavior of an agent or agents with some determinate intention. Being charming is desirable because it is an efficient way to modify one's environment in positive ways. What it comes down to is that everyone is a manipulator, however aware they are of the fact. It's part of being a social animal. Practically all interpersonal interactions either are in themselves, or involve, manipulations designed to produce some effect. Charm is higher facility for manipulation. Charm is a form of higher social competency.
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Blair
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Blair »

Thankyou for your input Mr. fucking obvious.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Facade,
Being charming is desirable because it is an efficient way to modify one's environment in positive ways. What it comes down to is that everyone is a manipulator, however aware they are of the fact. It's part of being a social animal. Practically all interpersonal interactions either are in themselves, or involve, manipulations designed to produce some effect. Charm is higher facility for manipulation. Charm is a form of higher social competency.
I disagree, I believe in most cases, charm is undesirable if one is interested in living an honest life. Charm is a smoke screen for ones true intention. So why not be blunt and direct and expose ones true intentions rather than concealing it? It involves a certain deceit, a certain lack of respect for your fellow man, and a materialistic self serving attitude to value charm more than just being blunt and direct. Charm has become the master of our time, because men do not have deep relationships, if they had deep relationships, charm would be secondary, and they could communicate directly and in a blunt manner without the need to seduce, persuade and entertain.

Moreover, Charm has also become necessary because men are so weak emotionally, they cannot stomach direct blunt communication, rooted in logical reason, so they need the warm delusion of charm.

Probably about 90% of the species use of charm should be abandoned, as charm has become the survival mechanism of the species, to hide the fact that nobody really has any sort of real relationships with each other, and to hide our true motivations/intentions.
Carmel

Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Carmel »

cousinbasil:
You asked if it was ever benevolent. Benevolence/malevolence and truth don't seem fundamentally correlated to me.

Carmel:
yes, charm(or the lack thereof) isn't inherently good or bad. It can arise spontaneously, such as is seen in the playful, innocent charm of children. On the opposite end of the spectrum, it can be used as a mechanism to intentionally deceive, an extreme example being Ted Bundy, who used superficial charm as a mechanism to lure his victims.

The underlying intent is the more relevant issue.
Carmel

Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Carmel »

prince charming:
Thankyou for your input Mr. fucking obvious.

Carmel:
...speaking of childlike, innocent charm...
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Carmel,
It can arise spontaneously, such as is seen in the playful, innocent charm of children.
Often times the charm of children is not so innocent and spontaneous. Children are rewarded for being charming by getting the object of their desires. Children are often encouraged to perform for adults as a means to get what they want, and this behavior is reinforced over time, and it becomes incorporated into their bag of survival tricks. not to mention that the behavior itself is hardwired somewhat from the outset.

From girls doing cute things, or boys winning at competitive things, each one expects recognition for their efforts, recognition that is often translated into rewards in the real world.

That is not to say that parents shouldnt reinforce behavior through approval or disapproval, but they need to be careful what sorts of behaviors they are reinforcing, and such reinforcement grows into a vital part of the person's personality. It is reversible, but only if the individual has a strong intellect. An individual with a weak intellect will be defined by his previous neurological reinforcements.
paco
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Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by paco »

jupiviv wrote:Yes, "charm" is essentially a dynamic of dominance and submission. People, and especially women, love to submit to someone who's just "charmed" them, even if they behave in the rudest manner to them and make them do things they don't want. So long as they've got their charm, it doesn't matter what their character is like.
I'd have to disagree with this last statement. If I were to blow my nose on a bus, is that charm? If I walked a rope a thousand feet in the air, is that charm? I smoked a lot of weed over the years based on "charm," and, I tell ya it doesn't work anymore. PPL must be driven by more than just that. The bible. Ha,ha.
I am illiterate
mensa-maniac

Re: The Evil of Charm

Post by mensa-maniac »

To use Charm as a means to gain for one's own selfish purposes, is dependent on how far the charm will go for that need or not. The Charm I use is intended to boost ego's not degrade them, so thus the charm I use is done so with intelligence and not evil or malicious intent. But, if I don't get my own way through charm, then I can become verbally aggressive, because most everyone responds to charm.

Most evil charm is used for the purpose of personal gain as Ryan points out, and is evil for the intent and the magnitude one will go to gain self-gratification.
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