Feeling of Freedom

[skipair]

The world is meaningless, there is no God or gods, there are no morals, the universe is not moving inexorably towards any higher purpose. All meaning is man-made, so make your own, and make it well. Do not treat life as a way to pass the time until you die.

Do not try to "find yourself", you must make yourself. Choose what you want to find meaningful and live, create, love, hate, cry, destroy, fight and die for it. Do not let your life and your values and you actions slip easily into any mold, other that that which you create for yourself, and say with conviction, "This is who I make myself".

Do not give in to hope. Remember that nothing you do has any significance beyond that with which imbue it. Whatever you do, do it for its own sake. When the universe looks on with indifference, laugh, and shout back, "Fuck You!". Rembember that to fight meaninglessness is futile, but fight anyway, in spite of and because of its futility.

The world may be empty of meaning, but it is a blank canvas on which to paint meanings of your own. Live deliberately. You are free.

This is a slightly more cynical version of how I view the world: No inherent purpose, just personal purpose. Though, when I am feeling good there isn't a 'fuck you' with any malice. It is more a feeling of freedom in knowing that nothing really matters, and a constant looking forward for the next thing I can have fun with!!!

[Atum]

Perhaps it's the least free who always talk of freedom.

[skipair]

So true. Like William Wallace in Braveheart. He yammers on and on about freedom, yet his wife was killed, his country is under attack, he's always at war and knows no peace, and in the end he gets killed.

Clearly, he knew nothing of freedom for all his lip service. :)

[Atum]

What I meant was that the philosophy seems really desparate. The guy who wrote it is trying to sound way freer than he is. He is deceiving himself. In that way, it's different from your Braveheart example. :)

[skipair]

What I meant was that the philosophy seems really desparate. The guy who wrote it is trying to sound way freer than he is. He is deceiving himself. In that way, it's different from your Braveheart example. :)

I see. Yeah, there is a sense of 'eating leftovers' and trying to make something good out of them. That is a frame in itself and doesn't have to be there if you don't want it to be.

[Blair]

You can only be free if you happily die at the hands of the (other) people (you) are of the universe.

The universe blindly created pleasure and pain, in equal measure, manifest in the human organism most acutely.

I had the most amazing sex with my ex-wife, and she's now out of the picture, I have to live the rest of my life in the relative "pain" of not having her any more.

That's a pretty shit life, all things considered. There is no sensation on earth that can bring it back.

Prince.

[Steven Coyle]

here's what god gave me: auto-noc

[skipair]

Prince aren't there 3 billion women in the world? Upgrade.

[skipair]

That does suck, though.

[skipair]

One thing I think Anonymous could take into consideration is that sometimes the fight is not futile at all. Maybe it is in some metaphysical, missing God sense, but we live in a world that has a definite history and it is being played out TODAY. It's better than any literature or story: it is OUR story.

In an old Russian tale, the hero Sadko travels the world for the bird of happiness to bring back to his hometown. In his travels he finds a bird of happiness who tells him:

Sleep...happiness is calm and relaxing, forget the world it is evil...sleep and listen to my music

But Sadko being awake and strong says aloud: "Foolish bird, take a look around. Will this help the poor and suffering? No, this is not the happiness I seek."

There are many things to do!!!

[Philip30]

Feeling Freedom is simply about reaching inside and finding the real you. The real you that longs to be free from any inner critic or nagging worries. That part of you that knows there is something more, something better.




_____________________
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[anderzon]

Do not try to "find yourself", you must make yourself.

it's true especially loners out there. And things like this ends up the unexpected career and field in life. but whats important is when you arrive at that part is that you are happy.

Freedom is something others protest or others cannot take out from you. Freedom goes along with choices and decisions you make.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Skipair,

I agree with some of the attitudes within this quote, meaning one shouldn't be emotionally invested in future outcomes, but should work towards things anyway. However, the writer appears to be rather bitter and jaded when he wrote this, and this attitude indicates a bruised ego that hasn't fully healed past hurts. Past hurts prevent enlightenment, full clarity cannot exist when a bruised ego is present.

I think this is evident when the writer advises the reader to tell 'reality' or the 'world' to go fuck itself. This is not a wise statement, if one truly understands causality, then one understands that the observer and the observed are one, so to tell 'the world out there' to go fuck itself creates an unnecessary and divisive battleground between what is inside and what is outside. He seems like a wounded soul that has gone quite far with his philosophical journey, but the last step would be putting down the shield and wall that his ego erected between himself and the world.

Moreover, I think values determine opportunity and interest, meaning the more values ones has, and how those values are prioritized determines the opportunity and interest that one seeks in reality.

For instance: If I value wisdom, empirical science, politics, economics and pragmatic affairs in that particular order, each will receive a certain amount of time, and dedicating time to something opens up new opportunity for advancement in that interest.

However, if I value alcohol consumption, chasing pussy, playing jokes on friends, video games, amusement parks, imitating what is seen on the show jackass, thrill sports, and so on. That sort of line up will produce different opportunity, interest and quality of consciousness.

And because there is a quality of consciousness, then it must follow that there must also be a quality of meaning to ones life as well.

Socrates once said, "the unexamined life is not worth living" Surely this indicates that there is indeed meaning to ones life. Meaning in the sense that if one dedicates their life to achieving the highest possible quality of consciousness then they will not suffer as badly and be as confused as if they ignored all intellectual yearnings, and lived merely for the physical and material.

[anderzon]

at the moment sleeping is the only freedom I know since its infinite out there and no borders could cover me. In my dreams I am the creator and the owner.

[skipair]

I agree with some of the attitudes within this quote, meaning one shouldn't be emotionally invested in future outcomes, but should work towards things anyway.

Interesting, I didn't interpret it that way. You were probably thinking of something I mentioned, because when it says, "Choose what you want to find meaningful and live, create, love, hate, cry, destroy, fight and die for it," that sounds very emotionally invested to me.

I tend to think moderation is the best bet, since without emotion there is no motivation to do anything, and with too much emotion unchecked, there is a total loss of control. I added 'unchecked' because I can be EXTREMELY intense about particular things and also be completely reasonable at the same time, no problem.

However, the writer appears to be rather bitter and jaded when he wrote this, and this attitude indicates a bruised ego that hasn't fully healed past hurts. Past hurts prevent enlightenment, full clarity cannot exist when a bruised ego is present.

I agree with this, though it's a very complicated way of saying being bitter and jaded is bad.

I think this is evident when the writer advises the reader to tell 'reality' or the 'world' to go fuck itself. This is not a wise statement, if one truly understands causality, then one understands that the observer and the observed are one, so to tell 'the world out there' to go fuck itself creates an unnecessary and divisive battleground between what is inside and what is outside.

Agreed. There are still lingering heartstrings that he's yet to let go, and so hasn't yet discovered that a world without inherent/objective meaning is not anywhere close to a problem. It's fascinating.

He seems like a wounded soul that has gone quite far with his philosophical journey, but the last step would be putting down the shield and wall that his ego erected between himself and the world.

Yep. Your sentence is the intellectual way that a philosopher can explain the phenomenon from a removed place. Of course, in practice, the experience is likely completely different from what those words evoke. As always.

Moreover, I think values determine opportunity and interest, meaning the more values ones has, and how those values are prioritized determines the opportunity and interest that one seeks in reality.

I agree values reveal particular opportunities. However, values ARE interest, they don't determine them.

For instance: If I value wisdom, empirical science, politics, economics and pragmatic affairs in that particular order, each will receive a certain amount of time, and dedicating time to something opens up new opportunity for advancement in that interest.

Ahh, I figured you knew that last point I made, and here I see that you do.

However, if I value alcohol consumption, chasing pussy, playing jokes on friends, video games, amusement parks, imitating what is seen on the show jackass, thrill sports, and so on. That sort of line up will produce different opportunity, interest and quality of consciousness.

Agreed.

If a person were to value these, and nothing from the first list, I would think of them as fun and very stupid. If a person were to value only the first list and none of the second, I would think of them as smart and very boring.

And because there is a quality of consciousness, then it must follow that there must also be a quality of meaning to ones life as well.

I can't tell if you are ascribing a value hierarchy when you use the word "quality", or if you are saying that there are simply qualities, in an unbiased sense.

Socrates once said, "the unexamined life is not worth living" Surely this indicates that there is indeed meaning to ones life. Meaning in the sense that if one dedicates their life to achieving the highest possible quality of consciousness then they will not suffer as badly and be as confused as if they ignored all intellectual yearnings, and lived merely for the physical and material.

Disagree. Nothing that Socrates or anyone else says can indicate meaning or qualities of consciousness. Meaning and quality are as they are. I've also found no correlation between the degree of happiness in people's lives and the degree of them being intellectual. Mormons, for example, are the happiest people I know. I am convinced that whether a person is conscious about it or not, it is usually emotional sensitivity and the proclivity for good emotions over the bad that ultimately creates a happy life. Of course, not being totally insane would also help.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Skipair,

Disagree. Nothing that Socrates or anyone else says can indicate meaning or qualities of consciousness. Meaning and quality are as they are. I've also found no correlation between the degree of happiness in people's lives and the degree of them being intellectual. Mormons, for example, are the happiest people I know. I am convinced that whether a person is conscious about it or not, it is usually emotional sensitivity and the proclivity for good emotions over the bad that ultimately creates a happy life. Of course, not being totally insane would also help.

Let me put it another way, being sane is desirable, and seeking wisdom is necessary for full sanity, and most would agree that to be fully sane is more meaningful of a life than to be totally or partially insane. And in my opinion, Socrates was hinting that there are qualities of consciousness, for instance: A down syndrome child has a totally different quality of consciousness then a enlightened philosopher. The two minds do not relate on the same level because one mind operates on a totally different level.

And in my opinion, Human happiness is a horrible gauge to measure anything. Happiness is fickle, it is based on momentary pleasure, momentary desire, material success, pride, and all the rest of it. Happy people are usually very bored and in a state of craving when they do not have the objects of their happiness. Also: Serial killers are happy when they go on massacres, but that's not to say that their life has had any meaning. However, I agree with you that meaning does not inherently exist in objective reality, but meaning exists by the mind. The mind creates meaning because it creates values. And this is not a bad thing, as long as the mind realizes that it has consciously created a preferred hierarchy, and it is safe to do as long as their is very little emotional investment in the preferred hierarchy. A preferred hierarchy serves as a moral compass. It is a philosopher's north star, it guides him, but it doesn't objectively exist, it only subjectively exists.

And as far as good emotions overcoming bad emotions, can you elaborate? because logic can overcome bad emotions, meaning one can reason there way out of illogical thoughts that are rooted in bad emotion, but how does good emotion overcome bad exactly?

The only good emotions I can think of is empathy/compassion or a sort of subtle intuition, but that subtle intuition is the result of years of logical reasoning anyway, you follow?

[skipair]

Let me put it another way, being sane is desirable, and seeking wisdom is necessary for full sanity

To me, wisdom and sanity mean exactly the same thing, so you can't seek one to get the other.

But I think I know what you mean anyway.

and most would agree that to be fully sane is more meaningful of a life than to be totally or partially insane.

If the question is leading like that, I'm sure everyone would agree. Their own sense of sanity, however, is likely different from what yours is or what mine is.

And in my opinion, Socrates was hinting that there are qualities of consciousness, for instance: A down syndrome child has a totally different quality of consciousness then a enlightened philosopher. The two minds do not relate on the same level because one mind operates on a totally different level.

If by qualities of consciousness, you mean people's experiences and lives are different form each other, I agree.

And in my opinion, Human happiness is a horrible gauge to measure anything.

Human happiness is the way to gauge human happiness.

Happiness is fickle, it is based on momentary pleasure, momentary desire, material success, pride, and all the rest of it. Happy people are usually very bored and in a state of craving when they do not have the objects of their happiness.

Happiness is only fickle to the degree that a person does things that don't make him happy. To the degree that a person doesn't want to be happy, I would think of them as insane.

Also: Serial killers are happy when they go on massacres, but that's not to say that their life has had any meaning.

The meaning of a serial killer's life is being a serial killer.

And as far as good emotions overcoming bad emotions, can you elaborate? because logic can overcome bad emotions, meaning one can reason there way out of illogical thoughts that are rooted in bad emotion, but how does good emotion overcome bad exactly?

Logic can only sometimes overcome bad emotions. Humans are set up to automatically have values and goals. It is an emotional and passionate impulse that is instinctual. It is essentially the search for happiness and satisfaction, which makes no difference to pure logic. A person can only be strictly logical about the world for so long before the emotional drive for creation kicks in. So the cause of bad emotions can either be from pure illogic, or from denying the direction of your natural creative impulse.

I find that most people THINK that they value things that they don't actually value. That is, they are unaware of what actually "gives their life meaning" and what makes them happy. The causes of happiness arise in their lives and then fall, and people don't think to pay attention and fill their lives with those causes. That, or they are lazy.

The only good emotions I can think of is empathy/compassion or a sort of subtle intuition, but that subtle intuition is the result of years of logical reasoning anyway, you follow?

I like humor and laughing. I also like making goals and getting the job done. That makes me feel very, very, very good.

[anderzon]

Life is simply a joke. We all die we don't all have fun and we all share the unfairness life is giving us.